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Are We Part of The Problem


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39 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

Socialism is when the government runs your life.

No, that isn't the definition of Socialism. As I said, you have zero idea of what it means. It can be a system where the "government" runs things, but that isn't the basic premise. The "community" mentioned in the definition below could be a family, a communal  piece of land, a village, whatever. It could even be you and your employees. At its basic level, it means that a group decides together what will benefit the group as a whole and that essential things are distributed equally among the members of the group according to need. All tribal societies, for instance, operate as socialist entities. 

A ship starts to sink and everyone piles into the lifeboats and heads for the little uninhabited island they see. In a socialist system, all of the people who escaped the sinking work together to find food, built shelters and share what little they managed to escape with so everyone can hopefully survive. 

As opposed to a capitalist system where everyone hoards whatever they have, sneaks out and steals more than their share of the food stash that has been collected, and trades whatever they have managed to bring with them, collect or squirrel away for sexual favors or a heel of bread. 

so·cial·ism
 
noun
 
  1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
     
     

     
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29 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

No, that isn't the definition of Socialism. As I said, you have zero idea of what it means. It can be a system where the "government" runs things, but that isn't the basic premise. The "community" mentioned in the definition below could be a family, a communal  piece of land, a village, whatever. It could even be you and your employees. At its basic level, it means that a group decides together what will benefit the group as a whole and that essential things are distributed equally among the members of the group according to need. All tribal societies, for instance, operate as socialist entities. 

A ship starts to sink and everyone piles into the lifeboats and heads for the little uninhabited island they see. In a socialist system, all of the people who escaped the sinking work together to find food, built shelters and share what little they managed to escape with so everyone can hopefully survive. 

As opposed to a capitalist system where everyone hoards whatever they have, sneaks out and steals more than their share of the food stash that has been collected, and trades whatever they have managed to bring with them, collect or squirrel away for sexual favors or a heel of bread. 

so·cial·ism
 
noun
 
  1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
     
     

     

And prey tell...where has this worked??? Russia? Cuba? China? Venezuela...give me a break!!! Are the hordes of the dispossessed breaking down the borders to get into those countries??? NO!!! Where are they storming the borders to get in??? The truth is right in front of our eyes, even though the FAKE NEWS does not want you to see it!!! Socialism (another word for Communism) is built on brainwashing our children, propaganda and promising FREE STUFF!!!  Capitalism and free enterprise it the greatest system invented by mankind.  FREEDOM...FREEDOM...FREEDOM!!!

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Don't try to convince yourself that being cheap is somehow a good and noble thing.  We tip well, pay for services well, donate to charities, provide dispensas to needy families, volunteer at non-profit organizations, and help a couple of families with kids.  I have never heard a single person complain that it made them feel bad to get a little extra of our time, money, or energy.  I speak Spanish fluently and visit with many folks about many issues including local costs and wages.  They all know that many expats do help the local economy and help many individuals.  I know of folks who pay for kids (especially girls) to attend school through university.  And who help with medical bills.  And gift old vehicles.  And help with quinceaneras or funerals.  I don't ascribe any of that to any social or political system...it's just doing the right thing with the resources we each have at our disposal.  All of us have a different capacity to do those things that are needed.  If that is being "part of the problem" then I think most of us have been misled about good deeds. 

As to socialism, it is not like communism. All democratic countries have socialist foundations.  Police and fire departments are paid for with taxes collected from everybody even though you might not ever use either one.  We paid property taxes for other people's kids to attend public schools.  There are a thousand examples of things like that.  Officials are elected, they work to decide who needs what where, and services are provided for the entire community.  Military, highways, community hospitals, food stamps, CDC, food inspections, waste water treatment, parks, libraries, etc.  Some countries provide more services with tax money than others.  Things like public transportation, medical care, and higher education.  They are all socialism.  Unless you want to only pay to have your house fire put out after paying the fire fighters what they think it will cost...or never drive on a freeway or never drink clean water or flush your toilet but if you like all those kinds of things and use them without thinking then you are a socialist.  Now if you don't like what your elected officials do with your tax money then vote them out.  As to immigration comments, you should know that most folks from south of the US are not just excited to enjoy the fruits  that the US democratic socialism  would provide, they are just trying to survive and would gladly go anywhere they thought that was possible. 

Alan

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3 hours ago, gringohombre said:

Socialism (another word for Communism) is built on brainwashing our children, propaganda and promising FREE STUFF!!! 

Thanks for proving once again that you don't understand the meaning of Socialism.

Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true. Too bad you are so opposed to actually learning anything. 

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5 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Thanks for proving once again that you don't understand the meaning of Socialism.

Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true. Too bad you are so opposed to actually learning anything. 

Too bad you couldn't just leave it with Alan's excellent post and for one resist making things personal.

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Many thanks Alan for your input... "I speak Spanish fluently and visit with many folks about many issues"  ... I guess the other part of my posting was, do you think as a Mexican or American ( or from ever you are from).

The observation by the Mexican gentleman was not about "our" generous outreach into the community, as I am sure that many other Mexican Nationals are reaching out but in their own manner and tradition , for example if I recall correctly there are many store and restaurant owners who support various soccer  teams. Perhaps other more knowledgeable folks can correct me or add to the list

However, I wonder if the quantity ( not quality, but that maybe another issue)  of "foreigners" at Lakeside has tipped the balance of mix and character of this community

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The term economic terrorism or financial terrorism is strictly defined to indicate an attempt at economic destabilization by a group. When wages are paid beyond the "normal rates" it creates an artificial economy. This is not beneficial to anyone since it creates inflation which has an impact on everyone. Some Mexican people I've spoken to are finding it impossible to hire any help, since the help only wishes to work for the foreigner with their inflated wages. BTW, I understand that some people may think they are helping the situation and mean well, but unfortunately the reality is something different.

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Drive over to Tucueca or San Pedro Tesistan and pay attention to the real differences you see.  If you are lucky enough to have a little tienda your only employee is likely to be family because most working age folks have left town.  There is almost nothing to do there except barely survive.  In 1972, when I first arrived in this area, Ajijic was a little fishing village which was mostly supplied by many very small farmers.  I'm talking dozens of boats and groups of men pulling in heavy nets which could take hours.  There were gringos living here then and it was a much cheaper place to live.  A house could be rented for less than 50.00 USD/month.  There were about four or five recognizable restaurants, two little hotels, no hospital, ambulance, telephones, television, library, immigration lawyers, car rentals, street lights, banks, clothing stores, malecon, etc.  Folks complained a little about the hippie influx bu t most of the gringos were retirees who lived in Chapala.  In those days the exchange rate was 12.5 pesos to the USD.  Eighteen years later it was 3,000 pesos to the dollar.  Prices went up dramatically all over Mexico.  Then they removed all the zeros and it became 3 pesos to the dollar.  Now twenty eight  years later it is about 21 pesos to the dollar.  And prices have gone up all over Mexico.  If they hadn't dropped the zeros back then it would be 21,000 pesos to the dollar and prices would reflect that accordingly.  I don't think gringos living lakeside had much, if anything, to do with any of that.  If you think prices are lower in less desirable places because of over tipping or contributing to charities then go visit Patzcuaro or Queretaro or Oaxaca or Merida or even Guadalajara.  Prices for housing, restaurants, gasoline, clothing, groceries, etc.  will be the same or more than here.  What is different is that wages are a little higher here because they can be.  Waiters and maids can make good money.  Housing is available, as are goods and services, and entertainment options abound.  I thought capitalists were in favor of supply and demand and that rising water raises all boats...Places like Amarillo Texas are cheaper than places like Seattle Washington.  It has very little to do with any rich folks living in either city who might be big tippers.  It has to do with quality of life.  Here that quality is relatively high and there is competition for workers many of whom were born here and stay because of that quality of life.  I say good for them and good for us.  We could not survive any place in the US that has any kind of desirability for us.  That isn't true for everybody because there are many happy folks living in Amarillo!

Alan

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In January of 1996, this area was so boring I thought I'd roll over and die. That's why we chose San Miguel de Allende. So much more going on here now. That "More" = more people and more vehicles. It's called progress unfortunately.

Collingwood, Ontario experienced the same influx. I distinctly remember a cartoon, in the local paper in the 80's, showing the population sign and a hand written note over it... Collingwood, Population 13,783 AND WE INTEND TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. Nice places get busy and cost more. Everywhere.

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rafter you are out of your gourd. For every Mexican you think feels the way you say they do, there are 10,000 that are grateful that someone more fortunate than they are has made a decision to share. I have worked jobs for tips in my younger days, and also relied on commissions in sales jobs. I never once felt someone was a fool for giving me a tip larger than normal, or increasing my share of a sale. No matter how much you squirm and use others to try to justify being a cheap so and so the truth is evident.

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18 hours ago, Ferret said:

In January of 1996, this area was so boring I thought I'd roll over and die. That's why we chose San Miguel de Allende. So much more going on here now. That "More" = more people and more vehicles. It's called progress unfortunately.

Collingwood, Ontario experienced the same influx. I distinctly remember a cartoon, in the local paper in the 80's, showing the population sign and a hand written note over it... Collingwood, Population 13,783 AND WE INTEND TO KEEP IT THAT WAY. Nice places get busy and cost more. Everywhere.

About 2 years ago (can not find my original post) I said that this area had become congested and polluted and could not wait to sell my apartments and leave. Well could not find any buyers (that has since changed), but I can tell you I was ripped to pieces by several on this board. Its kind like ignoring the imminent invasion of Ukraine which will have devastating snow ball consequence.

Anyway, where I live there is a construction boom with beautiful homes being built. I even have a vet and a doctor office 2 blocks away. No traffic issues and the bus is 3 pesos in to downtown Chapala. 😊  

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10 hours ago, elevator said:

For every Mexican you think feels the way you say they do, there are 10,000 that are grateful...

Rafter says he is married to a Mexican. He doesn't "think" they feel that way, they have told him. 

And I bet you don't know 10,000 Mexicans you have polled on this topic, so who is presuming to know what Mexicans think?

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Most of my Mexican friends are generous.  And most of my expat friends also. I tend to hang with persons who have gratitude in their lives.  

I appreciate a well prepared meal served by attentive staff.  They are providing a service to me and with respect I show my appreciation.  Others have the mindset that they are funding the economy here with their dollars so the locals are just lucky.  Tan feo.

Not much tolerance for rich Mexicans or expats who have the conquistador gene

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I believe the secret to living here lakeside is very simple.  You just treat everyone as a human being, nothing more, nothing less.  It is true I only tip in the 10 to 15 percent range but this is nothing different from what I do in the states.  In addition, I give to all the beggars although sometimes I think I am being hustled.  I have a fondness for the nino's so I contribute to their causes.  We have a gardener and maid and we pay them the going rate and if they do something extra, we pay them extra.  My wife always provides a meal for the maid and eats with her.  Both the gardener and maid have been with us for 5 years and they are wonderful people.  Sometimes they  need extra money and we will loan it to them, they always pay us back.  My wife is a psychologist here in Mexico and had her own television show in Mexico City, I worked for the government and traveled all over the world.  Here lakeside we are just lakesiders who probably relate more to the Mexican community than the expat one. We are respected by the Mexican community as we are simply a member of the community.  Unfortunately there are rich expat's  and rich Mexicans who think money is all important.  We believe a good heart is all that is important.

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rafter you are out of your gourd. For every Mexican you think feels the way you say they do, there are 10,000 that are grateful that someone more fortunate than they are has made a decision to share. I have worked jobs for tips in my younger days, and also relied on commissions in sales jobs. I never once felt someone was a fool for giving me a tip larger than normal, or increasing my share of a sale. No matter how much you squirm and use others to try to justify being a cheap so and so the truth is evident.

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If you tip 10-15% here you are cheap in my opinion. Unless that is truly all you can afford. But everyone has their own definition.

And hey Mudgirl, maybe he married a woman who is, shall we say very frugal, cause they think alike huh? No, I have not polled thousands of Mexicans, just basing my opinion on my 

life's experience, human nature and common sense.

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21 hours ago, rafterbr said:

I believe the secret to living here lakeside is very simple.  You just treat everyone as a human being, nothing more, nothing less.  It is true I only tip in the 10 to 15 percent range but this is nothing different from what I do in the states.  In addition, I give to all the beggars although sometimes I think I am being hustled.  I have a fondness for the nino's so I contribute to their causes.  We have a gardener and maid and we pay them the going rate and if they do something extra, we pay them extra.  My wife always provides a meal for the maid and eats with her.  Both the gardener and maid have been with us for 5 years and they are wonderful people.  Sometimes they  need extra money and we will loan it to them, they always pay us back.  My wife is a psychologist here in Mexico and had her own television show in Mexico City, I worked for the government and traveled all over the world.  Here lakeside we are just lakesiders who probably relate more to the Mexican community than the expat one. We are respected by the Mexican community as we are simply a member of the community.  Unfortunately there are rich expat's  and rich Mexicans who think money is all important.  We believe a good heart is all that is important.

No offence but I believe you may be out of touch with the "working class" who scrap by on about 6,000 pesos a month. This observation is based on you and your wife's level of education (government employee  and psychologist with a television show).  

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10 minutes ago, HoneyBee said:

No offence but I believe you may be out of touch with the "working class" who scrap by on about 6,000 pesos a month. This observation is based on you and your wife's level of education (government employee  and psychologist with a television show).  

While my wife comes from a middle class Mexican family, I grew up very poor.  I didn't even have new shoes to wear to school.  I worked my way through University and have a Masters degree as does my wife.  I know first hand how it is to be poor and my friends are working people  who work hard and make for themselves a better life.  You cannot buy friendship and I think the interaction between people is more important than any money you might give them.  I treat people with dignity which is more important than giving them a few pesos.

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1 minute ago, rafterbr said:

While my wife comes from a middle class Mexican family, I grew up very poor.  I didn't even have new shoes to wear to school.  I worked my way through University and have a Masters degree as does my wife.  I know first hand how it is to be poor and my friends are working people  who work hard and make for themselves a better life.  You cannot buy friendship and I think the interaction between people is more important than any money you might give them.  I treat people with dignity which is more important than giving them a few pesos.

Yes, because we all know how much food you can buy with your dignity.

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Jaysus! A twenty percent tip is plenty for servers in restaurants and that's for good service. If you want to give to the FoodBank here, you will really be feeding the hungry. They do a fantastic job! Everyone should treat everyone with dignity. I don't care where you live or who you are.

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