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Chinese vaccines do not control Omicron


geeser
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Whatever side you are on, aren't we lucky to live in a place where we spend most of our time outdoors or in open air environments.  Most of the Covid cases here locally stemmed from close family contact and large gatherings.  I'm sure in Europe, for example, where weather dictates more indoor activities, the Omicron took off based in part on that close indoor gathering tendency. 

I also think common sense should dictate a level of precaution.  Before the discovery of the link between bacteria and virus infections and general precautions like masks and gloves in operating rooms, not everybody who was operated on got an infection...but some did.  And so those precautions became normal, recommended, and eventually had to be required by law because some doctors still believed that lack of precaution was not causal.  Common sense had to be mandated to cover the stubborn and poorly informed. 

Do what you you can and should do so mandates are not required and lockdowns can be avoided.  The results of those two options are horrible for the mental, financial, educational, and political future of democracies around the world.  Luckily, the Omicron variant seems to have a low rate of hospitalization and almost zero death rate in part because many who are catching it now have been vaccinated (which we were told could happen since the start of vaccination programs.)  But if you, or a friend or family member, have a health issue that would make it dangerous to get Covid, please just use common sense.  Get the vaccine, wear a mask when applicable, and avoid indoor crowds when possible.  It really isn't that complicated.

I had Rubella (German measles) as a child and again as an adult, which they said was unlikely to occur, and then got a vaccination as an adult because I seemed to be open to that particular viral infection.  I also had Polio as a child and it was assumed that I probably then had an immunity.  But my parents made sure I took the vaccine as soon as it was available.  Never bet against a virus.

Alan

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15 hours ago, MtnMama said:

Keep in mind that the former guy is taking deserved credit for Operation Warp Speed in making the vaccine available and is encouraging folks to get vaxxed and boostered.

Yes, you are correct in that the Former Guy did a hell of a job getting our vaccines in record time by working with the pharmas and pre ordering some vaccines to encourage the pharmas to spend on development.  But "Current Guy" said he would never take that vaccine developed under "Former Guy". The in an admission of prevarication Current Guy got the (vaccine or saline)  jab and made sure we saw the photos.  By the way, Current 2nd stringer, VP, said repeatedly that she would NEVER take the vaccine and now they want all of us to take it? Who knows what to believe. Anything this bunch says they will change it by next week. Follow the Science, Poly Sci that is.

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25 minutes ago, geeser said:

Yes, you are correct in that the Former Guy did a hell of a job getting our vaccines in record time by working with the pharmas and pre ordering some vaccines to encourage the pharmas to spend on development.  But "Current Guy" said he would never take that vaccine developed under "Former Guy". The in an admission of prevarication Current Guy got the (vaccine or saline)  jab and made sure we saw the photos.  By the way, Current 2nd stringer, VP, said repeatedly that she would NEVER take the vaccine and now they want all of us to take it? Who knows what to believe. Anything this bunch says they will change it by next week. Follow the Science, Poly Sci that is.

PolitiFact | Biden, Harris distrusted Trump with COVID-19 vaccines, not the vaccines themselves

 

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5 hours ago, barrbower said:

Never bet against a virus.

Just make sure you cover yourself with something that actually works. The polio vaccines shut down polio by 1980.  The covid vaccines aren't shutting down anything other than MAYBE making the disease less severe.  The vaccinated still get covid, they can still spread covid and covid is still around and going strong unless one actually has it and gets over it in which case they have superior natural resistance to getting it again.

Not just sorta works like these "vaccines" and we really aren't sure because there hasn't been near enough time to actually confirm how much it works with serious, controlled study.  So we just parade around repeating the mantra and hope no one looks too close. 

So to compare these covid vaccines with polio vaccine is not a valid equivalency.  Or as noted by one observer:

Quote

Over many years, scientists have created many vaccines that elicit different types of immunity. Some vaccines work faster and more efficiently than others. Many vaccines are effective at eradicating the disease. Polio is a great example of such a vaccine.

So when comparing the Covid-19 vaccine with the Polio vaccine, we can’t place them in the same category for a simple reason — the Covid-19 vaccine is only effective at reducing the transmission and spread of the disease, not eliminating it. People who’ve received a Covid-19 vaccine can still pass on the infection to others. Many people don’t make this distinction.

While it’s true that the widespread vaccination rates contributed to the eradication of Polio disease, the effectiveness of the Polio vaccine itself had played a key role in eradicating Polio globally. Polio vaccine provides lifelong immunity whereas the Covid-19 vaccine gives only temporary protection...

We also don’t know just how effective the Covid-19 vaccine is at preventing the illness in the long term. Studies have shown that immunity starts to wane after six months. In comparison, the Polio vaccine renders immunity for many years after vaccination. The protection from the Polio vaccine is so strong that most adults who got vaccinated as children don’t need to vaccinate again...

The power of the Polio vaccine cannot be underestimated. It took decades of research to develop an effective Polio vaccine and eradicate the disease globally. That means scientists spent many years of research to understand how this particular virus worked. It required a thorough understanding of molecular biology and biomedicine to synthesize the knowledge in biomedicine.

https://medium.com/beingwell/comparison-of-two-vaccines-polio-and-covid-19-vaccine-cf50b583dc1c

As for those lockdowns and the rest of it perhaps the worst thing is what it has done to the kids and continues to do so, let alone all the adults who have been forced into poverty as a result.  Even it seems the so called mainstream media is beginning to notice that.  Better late than never, eh?

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During an appearance on “Face the Nation,” CBS News correspondent Jan Crawford blasted the “crushing” policies, blaming them for a number of problems affecting children today, including the ongoing mental health crisis, an increase in suicide rates, and learning loss due to school closures.

“My kids hear me rant about this every day, so I may as well tell you guys. It’s the crushing impact that our COVID policies have had on young kids and children, by far the least serious risk for serious illness,” Crawford said after host Margaret Brennan asked what she thought was the most underreported news story throughout 2021.

She noted that healthy teenagers have “a one-in-a-million chance” of catching and dying from the coronavirus and added that they have a greater chance of dying in a car accident.

“They have suffered and sacrificed the most, especially kids in underrepresented, at-risk communities. And now we have the surgeon general saying there’s a mental health crisis among our kids,” Crawford said. “The risk of suicide attempts among girls is now up 51% this year. Black kids nearly twice as likely as white kids to die by suicide.”

“I mean school closures, lockdowns, cancellation of sports. You couldn’t even go on a playground in the D.C. area without cops shooing the kids off,” she said. “Tremendous negative impact on kids, and it’s been an afterthought. It’s hurt their dreams, their future, learning loss, risk of abuse, their mental health.”

Crawford added that considering knowledge about vaccines, if policies didn’t reflect “a more measured and reasonable approach” for children, then they would be paying for her generation’s decisions for the rest of their lives.

The NIH funded a very recent study at Brown University that arrived at the same conclusion:

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ABSTRACT
Since the first reports of novel coronavirus in the 2020, public health organizations have advocated preventative policies to limit virus, including stay-at-home orders that closed businesses, daycares, schools, playgrounds, and limited child learning and typical activities. Fear of infection and possible
employment loss has placed stress on parents; while parents who could work from home faced challenges in both working and providing full-time attentive childcare. For pregnant individuals, fear of attending prenatal visits also increased maternal stress, anxiety, and depression. Not surprising, there
has been concern over how these factors, as well as missed educational opportunities and reduced interaction, stimulation, and creative play with other children might impact child neurodevelopment.  

Leveraging a large on-going longitudinal study of child neurodevelopment, we examined general childhood cognitive scores in 2020 and 2021 vs. the preceding decade, 2011-2019. We find that children born during the pandemic have significantly reduced verbal, motor, and overall cognitive performance compared to children born pre-pandemic. Moreover, we find that males and children in lower socioeconomic families have been most affected. Results highlight that even in the absence of direct SARS-CoV-2 infection and COVID-19 illness, the environmental changes associated COVID-19 pandemic is significantly and negatively affecting infant and child development.

 

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I agree with MC about lockdowns and the adverse effects on everybody but especially on kids.  But imagine what a child feels when a parent dies from Covid or a grandparent has lingering symptoms and the child watches them suffer.   Or a favorite teacher quits teaching because of school board/parent fights over mask rules.  There are many aspects of this pandemic that cause issues.  Those issues are not limited to only the attempts to control the pandemic but many are the result of folks choosing not to participate in the battle. 

In a perfect world a new vaccine would completely eliminate one's risk of getting sick but "don't deny the good for lack of perfect."  Over 800,000 in the US have died and millions will have lingering effects of long Covid.  Many of those deaths and complications could have been avoided if everybody got vaccinated.  No pharma, government, or scientist has promised that these vaccines are a guaranteed preventative.  I wish they were and maybe one day there will be one.  The seasonal flu has killed millions over the last fifty years and docs still recommend getting an annual flu vaccine to help prevent serious illness and slow the spread especially to those in high risk categories.  Just because they aren't perfect is not a reason to ignore their value. 

Due to may years of mandatory vaccinations for school age kids there are many diseases which are mostly gone now.  Small pox, rubella, diphtheria, polio, mumps, etc. are nothing to worry about in most countries but anti vax sentiment might make those mandatory vaccinations a thing of the past and we might have to deal with those illnesses again.  Maybe one day we will have a perfect vaccine that wipes out the common cold, flu, and the SARS type virus.  I'm sure they are working on it.  But until then, we should do what we can to keep kids safe, schools open, businesses operating normally, traveling safe, gatherings fun, and politics out of medical science. IMO, that means getting vaccinated and following common sense protocols and let's avoid lockdowns and mandates. 

Alan

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Once again I have to remind you that you are repeating a  false equivalency by comparing the covid "vaccines" that were designed to work by a different mechanism than the ones you are comparing it to and those vaccines were and are far more successful.  That is simply incorrect reasoning as the source I cited explained far better than I can.  

Also, when you look at the death toll from the viewpoint of excess deaths, the numbers you cite do not add up.  The numbers are much lower, possibly as low as 300,000 in the U.S.  A big number until you put it up against a population of some 330 million.  By comparison 660,000 people die of heart failure and over 600,000 die of cancer. 

Even at 800,000 that is 0.25 percent.  In the historical context of pandemics, that is pretty mild.

One should be asking themselves by now how many people would still be alive had equal emphasis been given to the treatment side of things from the beginning.  Instead, all the eggs were pout in one very leaky bucket.  It was left to chance and the actions of (at the beginning) a handful of medical professionals.  We now see from the experience of many more, and in some countries which did not rely on vaccines, that covid can be treated successfully.  

One of the great fallacies here is that vaccinating more and more is finally going to work.  If that were the case, we would not have such large numbers in populations that are 50 percent vaccinated or more, some in the 90 percent range.  If the vaccines actually worked as planned, the combination of the protected vaccinated, the naturally immune and those immune by reason of recovery would simply reduce the numbers by reason of lowered exposure opportunity.  That is just basic law of probability of exposure. 

Herd immunity isn't a "it's off until it is on" process, it grows as the percentage of immune grows.  The general rule of thumb is a pandemic runs out of steam around 75 percent.  I suggest to you if you take the vaccinated plus the naturally immune plus those that have acquired immunity as a result of surviving covid, you end up not that far from that number.  We should be seeing the infection rates dropping but in actuality more have died this year than last when there was no vaccine at all.

However, that is not the case and the reason for that is these vaccines do not stop either getting or spreading covid, particularly the later varieties.

Highly competent and credentialed epidemiologists in fact are suggesting the very business of mass vaccination instead of targeting the most vulnerable may be causing this virus to evolve faster.  However, it does seem to be following the usual path of lowered morbidity with subsequent versions so that is some consolation.

I can't share your optimism that the current approach of relying on vaccines that are far less effective than the ones you cite are going to end this business.  IMO the way to end it is to really get going on the treatment end of things, the earlier the better, to focus the vaccines on the most vulnerable and that is NOT children or young people and stop with the fear mongering and reliance on things that don't work like lockdowns, masks on children, disruption of normal life and so on.  I suggest to you these actions are taking a great toll on humanity than the covid.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Also, when you look at the death toll from the viewpoint of excess deaths, the numbers you cite do not add up.  The numbers are much lower, possibly as low as 300,000 in the U.S.  A big number until you put it up against a population of some 330 million.  By comparison 660,000 people die of heart failure and over 600,000 die of cancer. 

You are off by half. Excess death rate in the US from January 2020 to Feb. 2021 was over 600,000 and 85% of those were a direct result of Covid. You just continue to make stuff up.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w29503

A large majority of the Covid deaths could have been prevented had people gotten vaxed.

How on earth do you think how many people died from cancer or heart disease, which are not contagious, have any relevance whatsoever? Because xx number of people die of heart disease every year, that means that 600,000 largely preventable deaths from a highly contagious virus are no big deal? Your attitude is so disgusting and disrespectful to those who have lost loved ones to Covid. 

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Mainecoons, you have a real bee in your bonnet about the mRNA vaccines which account for only two out of many. Sinovac was done the old fashioned way and it's not really working that well.

Vaccines against Coronavirus - research overview | vfa

The last two years have been remarkable for incredible cooperation around the world to get a handle on this virus and save people's lives. I am grateful.

 

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24 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

You are off by half. Excess death rate in the US from January 2020 to Feb. 2021 was over 600,000 and 85% of those were a direct result of Covid. You just continue to make stuff up.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w29503

A large majority of the Covid deaths could have been prevented had people gotten vaxed.

How on earth do you think how many people died from cancer or heart disease, which are not contagious, have any relevance whatsoever? Because xx number of people die of heart disease every year, that means that 600,000 largely preventable deaths from a highly contagious virus are no big deal? Your attitude is so disgusting and disrespectful to those who have lost loved ones to Covid. 

I agree. My wife and myself had 8 friends here in San Luis Potosi hospitalized on ventilators die from Covid-19 last year. It disgusts me anything these deniers post and links they use which are all proven lies or opinions with no real proof. IMO. They should be ashamed of themselves!

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6 hours ago, geeser said:

By the way, Current 2nd stringer, VP, said repeatedly that she would NEVER take the vaccine 

No she didn't. Stop lying. This is what she said, back in Oct. 2020. 

Sen. Kamala Harris said during Wednesday's vice presidential debate that she would take a COVID-19 vaccine only if medical professionals recommended it, not on President Donald Trump's word alone.

"If Dr. Fauci, the doctors, tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it," Harris said. "But if Donald Trump tells us we should take it, I'm not going to take it."

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12 hours ago, Ferret said:

Mainecoons, you have a real bee in your bonnet about the mRNA vaccines which account for only two out of many. Sinovac was done the old fashioned way and it's not really working that well.

Vaccines against Coronavirus - research overview | vfa

The last two years have been remarkable for incredible cooperation around the world to get a handle on this virus and save people's lives. I am grateful.

 

That's right.  It doesn't work either.

Real vaccines do.  I've taken many of them with great results.

Stay tuned as the number of reports of serious or fatal reactions to mRNA continue to accumulate.  More with each subsequent booster.

rok06NJ.png

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This virus didn’t come with directions. And it’s trying to survive just like all organisms do. It’s evolving and changing as it goes along.  It has millions of hosts that it can hide in and change its methods of attack.

Our scientists are pulling all the stops in trying to combat it and they are changing their rules and strategies as they learn more and more of a moving target.

Since we are the targets of this virus we have no choice but to participate in this colossal experiment.  It would be ideal if we could round up all the whining anti vaxxers and send them to a remote island but we can’t do that and have no choice but to listen them cry incessantly as we struggle with the reality of the situation.

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Vaccines that work, work.  If these vaccines worked, covid would be on the run by now.  It is not.  There are more cases and death this year than last.  And now added to that we have the growing reports of heart failure, clots and inflammation among the formerly healthy young after getting these jabs.  

Sorry Bisbee, but putting us on an island won't stop y'all from getting and spreading covid among yourselves.  The Nazis would understand this kind of thinking, however.  I think you and several others need to think carefully about how fear and misinformation has caused you to be so extreme in your views you would actually openly advocate such fascist ideas.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.  Insanity is to keep jabbing yourselves expecting to stop covid with these vaccines.  It will just keep evolving out of reach, driven by the very mass jabbing you advocate.

Time to shift the focus on improving and expanding treatment.  We should have been doing that all along (and some of us have) instead of placing all our reliance on one "solution."

 

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11 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Vaccines that work, work.  If these vaccines worked, covid would be on the run by now.  It is not.  There are more cases and death this year than last.  And now added to that we have the growing reports of heart failure, clots and inflammation among the formerly healthy young after getting these jabs.  

Sorry Bisbee, but putting us on an island won't stop y'all from getting and spreading covid among yourselves.  The Nazis would understand this kind of thinking, however.  I think you and several others need to think carefully about how fear and misinformation has caused you to be so extreme in your views you would actually openly advocate such fascist ideas.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.  Insanity is to keep jabbing yourselves expecting to stop covid with these vaccines.  It will just keep evolving out of reach, driven by the very mass jabbing you advocate.

Time to shift the focus on improving and expanding treatment.  We should have been doing that all along (and some of us have) instead of placing all our reliance on one "solution."

 

You're right ; there is no cure for stupid--"stupid is; is stupid does"--I always wait and see ; and maybe jump----NO!!!!!!!!--HA---I smelled a rat from the get go----and Fuchi was that rat; especially knowing his history with aids.---to know the future is to know the past.--there is nothing new under the sun; just different players--

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1 hour ago, Jreboll said:

Since we are the targets of this virus we have no choice but to participate in this colossal experiment. 

Thankfully, WE DO HAVE A CHOICE.   I am not a guinea pig.  My health choices are between me and my physicians.  Your choices are that, your choices.  

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17 minutes ago, Jreboll said:

You ARE a target in this colossal experiment.  Anti vaxxers are not immune from this attack. Going the opposite direction on the highway and thumping your nose at everyone else just makes you look  stupid.  I don’t give a damn what you do, just stay 6 ft away from me.

And vice versa, please and thanks.  I sure don't want to be in the same room with someone who has such hatred for others.

Another MSM loved by liberals sounds a warning:

https://nationalfile.com/new-york-times-covid-boosters-may-cause-immune-system-fatigue-compromise-ability-fight-virus/

Israel already pushing a FOURTH jab.

Insanity is...

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What a horrible divisive topic.  People that have been friends for a long time, now, won't speak to each other over this.  What happened to deciding to simply disagree about something?  Why the hatred?  We all have differing opinions about many, many issues.  We aren't clones of each other.  Personal attacks on this site are unbelievable.  Wanting someone to die, or stating they WILL die, because they don't feel the same way you do.  OMG  how sad.

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