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Chinese vaccines do not control Omicron


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My doc told me today that many of the anti vaxxers who have had Covid believe that they have natural immunity forever.  There is some immunity but more like 6 to 8 weeks if you are lucky.  Good Luck!

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48 minutes ago, Kiko said:

My doc told me today that many of the anti vaxxers who have had Covid believe that they have natural immunity forever.  There is some immunity but more like 6 to 8 weeks if you are lucky.  Good Luck!

Your doc is incorrect based on several studies published. A couple through Nature publications and one (I believe) NIH. There was current immunity found in some recovered individuals 8 and 9 months following infection  Another study did comparisons to SARS 1 and found solid immunity 17 years following infection.

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2 hours ago, timjwilson said:

Your doc is incorrect based on several studies published. A couple through Nature publications and one (I believe) NIH. There was current immunity found in some recovered individuals 8 and 9 months following infection  Another study did comparisons to SARS 1 and found solid immunity 17 years following infection.

There are studies that support his opinion and there are studies that support your opinion.  He expressed his opinion based on what he has seen in his office over the last two years..  I know two expats who thought they were protected following a covid infection and they were not.  Throw the dice, it's your call.

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3 hours ago, timjwilson said:

Your doc is incorrect based on several studies published. A couple through Nature publications and one (I believe) NIH. There was current immunity found in some recovered individuals 8 and 9 months following infection  Another study did comparisons to SARS 1 and found solid immunity 17 years following infection.

Correct, and the main reason there are so many infections now is because the vaccines actually suppress the immune system.

My biggest beef is that unlike other vaccines there are so many pharma companies offering them but no actual data on overall effectiveness "it's all speculation" , at the end of the day let people do what they will.  I'll  keep watching the culling of the herd.

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12 hours ago, southernguy said:

...............but no actual data on overall effectiveness "it's all speculation" 

Are you suggesting that there IS NO data and the 'medical community"  is just winging it....or that you don't know about it and therefore assume that there must not be any because that is your belief system?

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57 minutes ago, Ferret said:

Yup. Roll the dice Tim. Assumptions have no place in this pandemic.

COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know | Johns Hopkins Medicine

 

Another good explanation.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-19-what-we-know#Vaccination-in-kids

 

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Look no further than Texas if you want to debate the effectiveness of vaccines:

Fatality Rate of Unvaccinated vs Vaccinated

>Vaccination had a strong protective effect on infections and deaths among people of all ages. In the September time frame, unvaccinated people in their 40s were 55 times more likely to die from COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated people of the same age."    The data came from The Texas Dept. of Health Services on November 8, 2021.

Numbers do not lie.  

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10 hours ago, Ferret said:

Yup. Roll the dice Tim. Assumptions have no place in this pandemic.

COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know | Johns Hopkins Medicine

 

Ferret, you know that I provided these studies to you. It is correct that there are studies supporting  both sides of this concept. The John's Hopkins article is really an opinion piece, not a scientific study. I can post the studies here but not many will read and understand them. Immunity from infection is not an assumption, it is testable. I am not anti-vaccine but believe people have a choice if they want to go the route of getting the titer (serum) test.

What I find most salient in a sense is the multi-year immunity to Corona virus SARS 1 after recovery. As I pointed out there are countries, including Switzerland and Israel accepting natural immunity to issue pass cards and Canada (last I knew) is accepting titer testing for entry to citizens. There must be scientific information to back these decisions.

EDIT: I should add that most studies comparing infection immunity and vaccinated individuals do point out the 'parts' of natural immunity which are superior to vaccination and vice versa.

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10 hours ago, southernguy said:

Correct, and the main reason there are so many infections now is because the vaccines actually suppress the immune system.

My biggest beef is that unlike other vaccines there are so many pharma companies offering them but no actual data on overall effectiveness "it's all speculation" , at the end of the day let people do what they will.  I'll  keep watching the culling of the herd.

There is no actual evidence (that I have read) that the mRNA vaccines are weakening the immune system, although the statistics from Israel seem to indicate this. There are a few scientists raising this hypothesis. Malone has been speaking against the vaccine but he also claims to be the inventor of the vaccine. This is false. He worked on advancing discoveries made by others and more scientists followed him to create a usable vaccine.

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45 minutes ago, timjwilson said:

Ferret, you know that I provided these studies to you. It is correct that there are studies supporting  both sides of this concept. The John's Hopkins article is really an opinion piece, not a scientific study. I can post the studies here but not many will read and understand them. Immunity from infection is not an assumption, it is testable. I am not anti-vaccine but believe people have a choice if they want to go the route of getting the titer (serum) test.

What I find most salient in a sense is the multi-year immunity to Corona virus SARS 1 after recovery. As I pointed out there are countries, including Switzerland and Israel accepting natural immunity to issue pass cards and Canada (last I knew) is accepting titer testing for entry to citizens. There must be scientific information to back these decisions.

EDIT: I should add that most studies comparing infection immunity and vaccinated individuals do point out the 'parts' of natural immunity which are superior to vaccination and vice versa.

That piece from John Hopkins has quite a number of the most recent studies embedded in it. They are pale blue and you can click on them. This is an evolving situation and I prefer the most recent studies. YMMV.

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2 hours ago, Ferret said:

That piece from John Hopkins has quite a number of the most recent studies embedded in it. They are pale blue and you can click on them. This is an evolving situation and I prefer the most recent studies. YMMV.

By imbedded, I presume you mean cited. I'm not in the habit of reading every paper cited in other articles. As you are likely aware there are often upwards of 50 in a decent study. I sometimes follow many of these if really exploring the nitty gritty. I have been reading scientific studies for at least 45 years as part of my education and occupation. 

A new study does not displace one previously carried out unless this is specifically noted. (normally) This is part of scientific method. The studies showing strong B cell presence 8+ months post infection (often increasing) in recovered individuals has not been disproved (of which I am aware).

Do you disagree that people with proven natural immunity should have a choice whether they are vaccinated or not?; That they should enjoy the same privileges and freedoms as those who are vaccinated?  

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