Jreboll Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-deputy-da-fought-vaccine-131753710.html All she wanted was « natural immunity » 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiko Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 My doc told me today that many of the anti vaxxers who have had Covid believe that they have natural immunity forever. There is some immunity but more like 6 to 8 weeks if you are lucky. Good Luck! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjwilson Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 48 minutes ago, Kiko said: My doc told me today that many of the anti vaxxers who have had Covid believe that they have natural immunity forever. There is some immunity but more like 6 to 8 weeks if you are lucky. Good Luck! Your doc is incorrect based on several studies published. A couple through Nature publications and one (I believe) NIH. There was current immunity found in some recovered individuals 8 and 9 months following infection Another study did comparisons to SARS 1 and found solid immunity 17 years following infection. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiko Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, timjwilson said: Your doc is incorrect based on several studies published. A couple through Nature publications and one (I believe) NIH. There was current immunity found in some recovered individuals 8 and 9 months following infection Another study did comparisons to SARS 1 and found solid immunity 17 years following infection. There are studies that support his opinion and there are studies that support your opinion. He expressed his opinion based on what he has seen in his office over the last two years.. I know two expats who thought they were protected following a covid infection and they were not. Throw the dice, it's your call. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Yup. Roll the dice Tim. Assumptions have no place in this pandemic. COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know | Johns Hopkins Medicine 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernguy Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 3 hours ago, timjwilson said: Your doc is incorrect based on several studies published. A couple through Nature publications and one (I believe) NIH. There was current immunity found in some recovered individuals 8 and 9 months following infection Another study did comparisons to SARS 1 and found solid immunity 17 years following infection. Correct, and the main reason there are so many infections now is because the vaccines actually suppress the immune system. My biggest beef is that unlike other vaccines there are so many pharma companies offering them but no actual data on overall effectiveness "it's all speculation" , at the end of the day let people do what they will. I'll keep watching the culling of the herd. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudgirl Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 40 minutes ago, southernguy said: Correct, and the main reason there are so many infections now is because the vaccines actually suppress the immune system. Which debunked site did you glean that misinfomation from, Einstein? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickS Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 12 hours ago, southernguy said: ...............but no actual data on overall effectiveness "it's all speculation" Are you suggesting that there IS NO data and the 'medical community" is just winging it....or that you don't know about it and therefore assume that there must not be any because that is your belief system? 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMexicali Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 57 minutes ago, Ferret said: Yup. Roll the dice Tim. Assumptions have no place in this pandemic. COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know | Johns Hopkins Medicine Another good explanation. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-19-what-we-know#Vaccination-in-kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiko Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Look no further than Texas if you want to debate the effectiveness of vaccines: Fatality Rate of Unvaccinated vs Vaccinated >Vaccination had a strong protective effect on infections and deaths among people of all ages. In the September time frame, unvaccinated people in their 40s were 55 times more likely to die from COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated people of the same age." The data came from The Texas Dept. of Health Services on November 8, 2021. Numbers do not lie. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjwilson Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 10 hours ago, Ferret said: Yup. Roll the dice Tim. Assumptions have no place in this pandemic. COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know | Johns Hopkins Medicine Ferret, you know that I provided these studies to you. It is correct that there are studies supporting both sides of this concept. The John's Hopkins article is really an opinion piece, not a scientific study. I can post the studies here but not many will read and understand them. Immunity from infection is not an assumption, it is testable. I am not anti-vaccine but believe people have a choice if they want to go the route of getting the titer (serum) test. What I find most salient in a sense is the multi-year immunity to Corona virus SARS 1 after recovery. As I pointed out there are countries, including Switzerland and Israel accepting natural immunity to issue pass cards and Canada (last I knew) is accepting titer testing for entry to citizens. There must be scientific information to back these decisions. EDIT: I should add that most studies comparing infection immunity and vaccinated individuals do point out the 'parts' of natural immunity which are superior to vaccination and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjwilson Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 9 hours ago, AlanMexicali said: Another good explanation. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-19-what-we-know#Vaccination-in-kids I did not notice that this addresses natural immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjwilson Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 10 hours ago, southernguy said: Correct, and the main reason there are so many infections now is because the vaccines actually suppress the immune system. My biggest beef is that unlike other vaccines there are so many pharma companies offering them but no actual data on overall effectiveness "it's all speculation" , at the end of the day let people do what they will. I'll keep watching the culling of the herd. There is no actual evidence (that I have read) that the mRNA vaccines are weakening the immune system, although the statistics from Israel seem to indicate this. There are a few scientists raising this hypothesis. Malone has been speaking against the vaccine but he also claims to be the inventor of the vaccine. This is false. He worked on advancing discoveries made by others and more scientists followed him to create a usable vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jreboll Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Malone gives me the impression of being a sore loser. He fears losing out on the recognition others are getting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 45 minutes ago, timjwilson said: Ferret, you know that I provided these studies to you. It is correct that there are studies supporting both sides of this concept. The John's Hopkins article is really an opinion piece, not a scientific study. I can post the studies here but not many will read and understand them. Immunity from infection is not an assumption, it is testable. I am not anti-vaccine but believe people have a choice if they want to go the route of getting the titer (serum) test. What I find most salient in a sense is the multi-year immunity to Corona virus SARS 1 after recovery. As I pointed out there are countries, including Switzerland and Israel accepting natural immunity to issue pass cards and Canada (last I knew) is accepting titer testing for entry to citizens. There must be scientific information to back these decisions. EDIT: I should add that most studies comparing infection immunity and vaccinated individuals do point out the 'parts' of natural immunity which are superior to vaccination and vice versa. That piece from John Hopkins has quite a number of the most recent studies embedded in it. They are pale blue and you can click on them. This is an evolving situation and I prefer the most recent studies. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMexicali Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, timjwilson said: I did not notice that this addresses natural immunity. Quote: "How natural immunity works after COVID-19 develops" There are 2 parts to the article. The first part does discuss natural immunity. Scan above to read it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjwilson Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, Ferret said: That piece from John Hopkins has quite a number of the most recent studies embedded in it. They are pale blue and you can click on them. This is an evolving situation and I prefer the most recent studies. YMMV. By imbedded, I presume you mean cited. I'm not in the habit of reading every paper cited in other articles. As you are likely aware there are often upwards of 50 in a decent study. I sometimes follow many of these if really exploring the nitty gritty. I have been reading scientific studies for at least 45 years as part of my education and occupation. A new study does not displace one previously carried out unless this is specifically noted. (normally) This is part of scientific method. The studies showing strong B cell presence 8+ months post infection (often increasing) in recovered individuals has not been disproved (of which I am aware). Do you disagree that people with proven natural immunity should have a choice whether they are vaccinated or not?; That they should enjoy the same privileges and freedoms as those who are vaccinated? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringal Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 The important word there is "proven", it would seem. 🙃 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideSky Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjwilson Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, gringal said: The important word there is "proven", it would seem. 🙃 Yes, for sure. It is easy enough albeit fairly expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjwilson Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 23 minutes ago, WideSky said: Unfortunately the present vaccines do not seem to be having that controlling effect. For most of the population they seem to mitigate the illness, rather than prevent it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jreboll Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Mitigation means a lot when it comes to using up resources stretching thin. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timjwilson Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 5 minutes ago, Jreboll said: Mitigation means a lot when it comes to using up resources stretching thin. No argument there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudgirl Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, Jreboll said: Mitigation means a lot when it comes to using up resources stretching thin. https://www.rawstory.com/bank/our-most-difficult-point-unvaxxed-patients-overflow-hospitals-as-doctors-beg-for-help/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
virgo lady Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 On 1/4/2022 at 1:31 PM, Jreboll said: https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-deputy-da-fought-vaccine-131753710.html All she wanted was « natural immunity » It seems there is a cure for stupid, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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