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Kids in primary back to virtual learning in January


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7 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Two states in Canada are reporting very significant increases in still births among vaccinated pregnant women

No they aren't.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/8401613/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-stillbirths-pregnancy/amp/

7 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Why are we forcing young and healthy people, statistically at zero real risk from covid, to take these vaccines

No, they are quite far from being at zero risk.

https://www.paho.org/en/news/5-5-2021-hospitalizations-and-deaths-younger-people-soar-due-covid-19-paho-director-reports

7 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Maybe the vaccinated don't get as sick when they get covid but the evidence for that is pretty sketchy.  Determining something like that would take massive controlled studies over more than a few months, not just anecdotal observations from those with an obvious agenda. 

Anecdotal observations? Hospitals all over the world have been keeping records on this since the vaccinations became available.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/chart/amp/26159/covid-cases-us-age-group-vaccination-status/

Facts matter. Not whatever uninformed BS one spouts.

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Know what's far more time-consuming and tedious than keeping myself safe from Covid?

Having to go look up and post the scientific facts to counter the dumb-### conspiracy blitherings of people who would rather believe what they read on Telegram or heard on Fox, than actual facts, and who after almost two years, still seem incapable of "getting it".

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I might add this one thought.  "Where Covid is soaring even in populations that are mostly vaccinated" it is almost entirely because almost half of those populations don't believe the vaccine works or is somehow more dangerous than the disease.  From the start, the medical professionals have been saying that the vaccine will not prevent one entirely from getting Covid.  But once vaccinated the chances of serious problems (like 5 million dead) is greatly reduced as is the chance of even contracting and then spreading the disease.  If the population was indeed mostly vaccinated...say 95% then we would probably not have to keep having these discussions. 

Lockdowns are horrible.  Social, mental, financial, and even long term health effects are measurable and hurtful.  Way back when Trump was bragging about getting the vaccines rolled out in record time and his supporters were backing those efforts, we had a chance to avoid many problems that are still present.  Even the ex got vaccinated after at least one Covid infection.  But folks are slow to learn.  They still went to a concert, rally, party, etc. and bragged about their freedom (I suppose to get sick and infect others.)  Common sense seems to have flown the coop.  Education (science based,) vaccination, and careful decision making will keep us out of lockdowns.  And that means 95% of us not 55%.   Q, Fox talking heads, your neighbor's brother-in-law, etc are not good sources of accurate information.  Everybody has an opinion but not all opinions are equally valid.

At least check out the website called All Sides News and click on the "News" link at the top of the page.  They present a left, right, and center viewpoint on many topics.  Force yourself to read all those views.  You might learn something new and you might learn more about a friend or family member who holds different opinions.  Get out of your bubble.  MC's post was well written and researched but misleading on a few points.  But at least he is trying to express his concerns in an intelligent manner and I respect that.

Alan

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Quote

I might add this one thought.  "Where Covid is soaring even in populations that are mostly vaccinated" it is almost entirely because almost half of those populations don't believe the vaccine works or is somehow more dangerous than the disease.  From the start, the medical professionals have been saying that the vaccine will not prevent one entirely from getting Covid.  

First sentence is statistically incorrect.  If the vaccines really worked the incidence of covid would have to decrease simply because there are fewer transmitters around.  Actually we are seeing covid revivals in populations exceeding 70 percent or more vaccination.  In Israel the vaccination level exceeds 90 percent.  Do you really think the 10 percent is the cause of the resurgence there?  Hardly.

Second sentence is just incorrect period.  Perhaps you have forgotten that for a time last year the good Dr. Fauci was telling us if you were vaccinated you didn't have to wear face diapers and you could gather.

On May 21:

Quote

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced Thursday that people who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 no longer need to wear masks or physically distance — whether indoors or outdoors in most circumstances.

"We have all longed for this moment when we can get back to some sense of normalcy," the CDC's director, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, said during a media briefing Thursday afternoon.

 

Full coverage of the coronavirus outbreak

"Based on the continuing downward trajectory of cases, the scientific data on the performance of our vaccines and our understanding of how the virus spreads," Walensky said, "that moment has come for those who are fully vaccinated."

The more apparent it becomes these vaccines don't work and have serious side effects the more they try and force them on us.  Now we have them jabbing groups that have a statistical near zero chance of getting or dying from covid and we have the same incidences of blood clots, heart inflamation and other serious side effects showing up.

Two years of this flim flam, thousands dead from side effects and more covid deaths than ever in the U.S.  When will enough be enough?

Have at it folks.  :D 

wv7OWxL.jpg

 

 

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What about the other side of the coin? If NO vaccines had been developed and nobody had gotten the jab and nobody wore face masks and nobody socially distanced and nobody took any precautions whatsoever.... how many dead? how many disabled? how many economies in tatters? how many homeless? how many starving?

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Not specifically. Although it is mentioned that infected vaccinated people tend to clear the virus more rapidly than unvaccinated people. You aren't free and clear if you are vaccinated and should still mask/social distance etc.

I'm putting these links in order of publication... the first one is from September of 2021, the second is from November of 2021 and the third is from four days ago...

Science Brief: COVID-19 Vaccines and Vaccination (cdc.gov)

Delta variant: Why vaccines are ‘not a silver bullet’ (medicalnewstoday.com)

How bad is Omicron? What scientists know so far (nature.com)

 

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It appears that, as Ferret has stated previously, whether vaccinated or not, taking logical precautions is in order; hand washing, mask wearing, no kissing strangers, etc. Even if vaccinated one can still harbor and pass on the virus, even a mutated version.

These apparent facts also seemingly point out that blaming people who have decided against being vaccinated for the continuance of the virus is without merit. It is unfortunate that this issue has caused such division in society. 

A bit of good news is the Omicron variety is so far not deadly and perhaps this indicates the downgrading of Sars2 as I believe occurred with Sars1.

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"Without merit"???? OMG! Give your head a shake !!!!!!!!!!! The people who don't care to get vaccinated are usually the same people who take NO precautions of any kind because they say "it's JUST the flu".  Then they catch it, are hospitalized and die screaming for the vaccine. Too little, too late. 

Furthermore, IF they get it, they are shedding the virus for a lot longer than a vaccinated person... which gives them a longer period of time to infect others.

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1 hour ago, timjwilson said:

These apparent facts also seemingly point out that blaming people who have decided against being vaccinated for the continuance of the virus is without merit. 

In addition to the points Ferret made, the unvaccinated infected clog up the hospitals, taking up beds and resources that have led to people who require non-Covid related care unable to get a bed, often with dire consequences.

Yes, it's unfortunate that it has created such division in society, but there has been and will always be division between those who care about how their behavior affects others and those who don't. 

The pandemic has just made more obvious how many and which people care only about themselves.

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2 hours ago, Ferret said:

"Without merit"???? OMG! Give your head a shake !!!!!!!!!!! The people who don't care to get vaccinated are usually the same people who take NO precautions of any kind because they say "it's JUST the flu".  Then they catch it, are hospitalized and die screaming for the vaccine. Too little, too late. 

Furthermore, IF they get it, they are shedding the virus for a lot longer than a vaccinated person... which gives them a longer period of time to infect others.

for the continuance of the virus is without merit

I'm not one to waste words 'usually'

 

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Well over a year ago the big thing was the lack of ventilators. This appears to have been resolved. (remember Ford and GM getting a government contract to build them ? I always wanted to know what size engine they used ☺️).

On another note, I never changed much in the way I live. The best advice I got was from ANGUS (rip) about washing your hands with soap for a minute.

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46 minutes ago, dichosalocura said:

Angus?  What do we know about him?  I just remember him traveling to the beach, then he posted on the forum that he needed help to get an oxygen tank if I remember correctly, after that he was never heard from again.

Sadly, I have no idea what may have happened to him.

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From Mudgirl:  "In addition to the points Ferret made, the unvaccinated infected clog up the hospitals, taking up beds and resources that have led to people who require non-Covid related care unable to get a bed, often with dire consequences. "

So, could you please explain to me why my sister's sister-in-law, fully vaccinated, etc, is taking up a bed? Or her vax brother-in-law who took up a bed AND DIED? I guess anyone who doesn't fall within the party line should just be tossed out? Sorry, Granny. Guess you should have taken the flu shot when you had the chance? Oops, Uncle Charlie -- sorry about your liver, but you DID have drinks during your lifetime.

OK, enough of being silly. My point (duh) is simply saying to use absolutes gets us nowhere. None of us is judge and jury for those who are admitted into hospital. You don't have to agree with one side or the other but the sense of righteous indignation that oozes out of some of the posts just leaves me shaking my head. Be like MaineCoons or Ferret and give us valid points to consider while giving your  opinion. Who knows? You might change a mind or open one up a little.

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1 hour ago, Tingting said:

From Mudgirl:  "In addition to the points Ferret made, the unvaccinated infected clog up the hospitals, taking up beds and resources that have led to people who require non-Covid related care unable to get a bed, often with dire consequences. "

So, could you please explain to me why my sister's sister-in-law, fully vaccinated, etc, is taking up a bed? Or her vax brother-in-law who took up a bed AND DIED? I guess anyone who doesn't fall within the party line should just be tossed out? Sorry, Granny. Guess you should have taken the flu shot when you had the chance? Oops, Uncle Charlie -- sorry about your liver, but you DID have drinks during your lifetime.

OK, enough of being silly. My point (duh) is simply saying to use absolutes gets us nowhere. None of us is judge and jury for those who are admitted into hospital. You don't have to agree with one side or the other but the sense of righteous indignation that oozes out of some of the posts just leaves me shaking my head. Be like MaineCoons or Ferret and give us valid points to consider while giving your  opinion. Who knows? You might change a mind or open one up a little.

As a fully vaccinated person, I would never resent people who chose to get vaccinated and then require a hospital bed due to blood clots, or Myocarditis. 

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