Carretera blocked east SJC

[happyjillin]

How is the carratera today and is there big lineups at the hospital for vax?

[MtnMama]

4 hours ago, happyjillin said:

How is the carratera today and is there big lineups at the hospital for vax?

Joco is vaccinating people 18-29 who have not had their 1st dose only per the Covid info Web page

[cedros]

On 10/6/2021 at 10:36 AM, happyjillin said:

Anybody know if the carretera  has been cleared yet and is the west access road at the Racquet club in operation? Need to get to the Jocotepec hospital from Chapala this afternoon with the help of somebody in the Racquet.-gracias.

I heard the carretera was cleared and the west entrance to the Raquet Club was open. I will see tomorrow. Tono Palafox and Raul Ramierez in the Raquet Club are problematic.

[cedros]

On 10/6/2021 at 9:22 AM, InChapala1 said:

Just 3-4 inches of rain did this. Imagine the impact of a severe rain event if it occurs here:
Rossiglione, a town in Italy's Liguria province near Genoa, got 29.2 inches of rain in 12 hours over Monday and Tuesday...
https://theweek.com/natural-disasters/1005714/a-town-in-italy-just-got-60-percent-of-its-annual-rainfall-in-12-hours

The problem arises in the many arroyos above the Raquet Club and other areas. Over the years a lot of debris builds up in them. This leads to debris dams behind which the water builds up. When the debris dams break a lot of water comes down. People like to blame a Trompa but I think it is the release from debris dams.

[AndyPanda]

Nope. One of the Mexican papers reported MULTIPLE TROMBAS. And showed a helicopter or drone video of the results.

[Mostlylost]

Many locals refer to a large rainfall that causes huge runoff as a tromba. Because our mountains are close to a lake many jump to the wrong conclusion. 

A tromba is a water spout. Think water tornado. When such a water spout hits land it quickly drops items found in the source of the water. Think fish, frogs, water plants.

The last time there was a similar occurrence in San Juan Cosala  the same tromba claims were made. The University came from Guadalajara and investigated. They found absolutely no evidence of lake water, fish, and lake plants which would occur in a tromba. What they did find were large amounts of dead tree branches, dead plants, etc, which had built up over the years in the canyons above San Juan Cosala. When unusually heavy rains caused a backup behind the natural dams they broke loose. 

[AndyPanda]

I guess you can tell that to the people who took video of those non-trombas back then. (And don't even ask: if I had a link to it, I would have posted it.)

[InChapala1]

Thank you Cedros and Mostly for the explanation. Do these debris or natural dams exist along the entire Chapala to Jocotepec corridor or are they mostly in the San Juan Cosala area?

[cedros]

11 hours ago, AndyPanda said:

Nope. One of the Mexican papers reported MULTIPLE TROMBAS. And showed a helicopter or drone video of the results.

I have yet to see a tromba here-only a few daytime videos. I have seen 2 trombas in British Columbia up close in daylight and they don't have much water in them. The Mexican news usually picks the wrong problem in these cases and blames trombas without much investigation in reality it is a tormenta with a lot of rain. A video of results show the devastation not the cause. The tormenta in the Raquet Club in 2007 happened when it was dark.

[Ferret]

Tromba not trompa.

[Mostlylost]

There have been videos and pictures posted over the years of trombas over the lake. They usually end after a few minutes.

When the same problems occur every few years with water comes cascading down from the Bosque de la Primavera with similar results in GDL there are no tromba claims  made because there is no lake there.  

As to helicopter videos they are of the aftermath of the heavy rain and water from the mountains. There were no helicopters flying in the dark of night recording heavy rains nor trombas  in the Chapala basin.

A few weeks ago there was a similar heavy rainfall south of Tizapan al Alto causing flooding, and the normally almost dry river through town to rise in minutes.  Rainfall in the mountains was the cause.. No tromba there either. 

 

[Ferret]

Totally agree MostlyLost. 2007 and 2021... lots of debris and new growth accumulates during that length of time in the naturally occurring arroyos. Diversion of arroyos around housing developments makes it even worse.

[lakeside7]

OK let me pass this by you all....

If there is significant amount of rain, the mountain side becomes saturated and will not hold more of the wet stuff....the excess of rain then begins to flow off the surface, gaining force strong enough to start moving boulders and other lose objects...My opinion , a Tromba or water spurt was not present during this last "disaster" ....only too much rain, which causing further saturation and precipitated  the "avalanche" of water down the mountain side.

Back in 2007 in SJC we had a similar pattern of heavy rain, mountain side saturated and then this Tromba which lifted from the lake ,and hit the mountain side bring huge amounts of water and debris and humongous  boulders etc, through the Club and SJC village 

The local arroyos are never created to take this abnormal amount of excess water........and for the most part they are overgrown with weeds or full of trash. Again another part of our infrastructure that sorely needs fixing...Now we have colossal damage to the highway which could have, should have been avoided 

[AndyPanda]

2 hours ago, Mostlylost said:

There have been videos and pictures posted over the years of trombas over the lake. They usually end after a few minutes.

When the same problems occur every few years with water comes cascading down from the Bosque de la Primavera with similar results in GDL there are no tromba claims  made because there is no lake there.  

As to helicopter videos they are of the aftermath of the heavy rain and water from the mountains. There were no helicopters flying in the dark of night recording heavy rains nor trombas  in the Chapala basin.

A few weeks ago there was a similar heavy rainfall south of Tizapan al Alto causing flooding, and the normally almost dry river through town to rise in minutes.  Rainfall in the mountains was the cause.. No tromba there either. 

 

 

I guess you can tell that to the people who took video of those non-trombas back then.

[happyjillin]

26 minutes ago, AndyPanda said:

 

I guess you can tell that to the people who took video of those non-trombas back then.

There was no tromba in 2007 either. the scientists and experts determined it was a torrential downpour, contrary to non expert video shooters and ordinary citizens misnaming it as a tromba on the mountainside above San Juan Cosala. So mostlylost is right as rain,dontcha know.

[happyjillin]

Did the drive today and the AZ shots were given in a sports complex in Jocotepec Centro. Vast crowds even at 3pm. The drive was not too bad in either direction.

[lakeside7]

23 minutes ago, happyjillin said:

There was no tromba in 2007 either. the scientists and experts determined it was a torrential downpour, contrary to non expert video shooters and ordinary citizens misnaming it as a tromba on the mountainside above San Juan Cosala. So mostlylost is right as rain,dontcha know.

Where you there??? Let me assure you fish were lifted from the lake....or were they flying fish!!

[AndyPanda]

49 minutes ago, happyjillin said:

There was no tromba in 2007 either. the scientists and experts determined it was a torrential downpour, contrary to non expert video shooters and ordinary citizens misnaming it as a tromba on the mountainside above San Juan Cosala. So mostlylost is right as rain,dontcha know.

Baloney. Gas from your mouth. From both of you. Why do you two care anyway? You have a campaign against tromba sightings? I was here. I saw the images. But keep trying to rewrite history. I'm done with your gas.

[MtnMama]

Keeping the arroyos cleaned out sounds like a civic project for some group to organize once a year or so. 

[cedros]

6 hours ago, lakeside7 said:

OK let me pass this by you all....

If there is significant amount of rain, the mountain side becomes saturated and will not hold more of the wet stuff....the excess of rain then begins to flow off the surface, gaining force strong enough to start moving boulders and other lose objects...My opinion , a Tromba or water spurt was not present during this last "disaster" ....only too much rain, which causing further saturation and precipitated  the "avalanche" of water down the mountain side.

Back in 2007 in SJC we had a similar pattern of heavy rain, mountain side saturated and then this Tromba which lifted from the lake ,and hit the mountain side bring huge amounts of water and debris and humongous  boulders etc, through the Club and SJC village 

The local arroyos are never created to take this abnormal amount of excess water........and for the most part they are overgrown with weeds or full of trash. Again another part of our infrastructure that sorely needs fixing...Now we have colossal damage to the highway which could have, should have been avoided 

I have interviewedd many people who lived in the Raquet Club in 2007. None of them had any evicdence of a tromba-just a lot of rain.

[HookEmHorns]

4 hours ago, MtnMama said:

Keeping the arroyos cleaned out sounds like a civic project for some group to organize once a year or so. 

Go for it !

[cedros]

9 hours ago, AndyPanda said:

I guess you can tell that to the people who took video of those non-trombas back then. (And don't even ask: if I had a link to it, I would have posted it.)

I am curious as to how those people took videos in the dark.

[Curmudgeon]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:18 AM, MtnMama said:

Keeping the arroyos cleaned out sounds like a civic project for some group to organize once a year or so. 

The arroyos are a Federal responsibility. They are cleaning ours as we speak.

[CHILLIN]

1 hour ago, Curmudgeon said:

The arroyos are a Federal responsibility. They are cleaning ours as we speak.

Yes, but we are very lucky here because in many parts of Mexico the poor and displaced move into these arroyos and construct flimsy shacks. The City and the State can't do anything about it. Next flash flood and there are many deaths. The shacks also obstruct the flow causing flooding.

[Stream]

On 10/7/2021 at 11:43 PM, cedros said:

I am curious as to how those people took videos in the dark.

Way back Sony video cameras at least the Digital 8 video cameras had night vision nicknamed Reggie Vision I think it was called. I bought one a model something like DSC320 maybe. Loaned it to my dad to use making video of his WW2 flying friends stories and haven't used it since. The night vision is black and white and does pretty good in the dark. Worked with low light and can film using an IR filter on a light. If you ever get a camera like that be careful not to turn on the night vision in lighted conditions since it might burn out things. Back a couple of years I saw companies advertising their cameras can film in color in very low light. The method of amplifying what is received on the light sensor plate is getting better and better. Seems to be all about filtering out the trash electronics noise to get clearer pictures.