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Mexico's Supreme Court rules that abortion is not a crime


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"...at six weeks of pregnancy, an ultrasound can detect "a little flutter in the area that will become the future heart of the baby," said Dr. Saima Aftab, medical director of the Fetal Care Center at Nicklaus Children's Hospital in Miami. This flutter happens because the group of cells that will become the future "pacemaker" of the heart gain the capacity to fire electrical signals, she said."

"Although a lot of weight seems to be put on the detection of this flutter, "by no means does it translate to viability of the heart" or viability of the pregnancy, Aftab said."

https://www.livescience.com/65501-fetal-heartbeat-at-6-weeks-explained.html

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3 hours ago, happyjillin said:

Rather misogynistic to the extreme. You disappoint me but on the other hand you do live in Texas now and that most likely 'splains it. I don't hobnob with bigots,racists,misogynists. misandrists and people that don't understand that gayness is as natural as hetero.

I don't recall asking you to "hobnob" with me. Refresh my memory. BTW, do you always have a name for anyone who disagrees, politely, with you? Not the happyjillin I see on this board.

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48 minutes ago, Ferret said:

BTW, Pappysmarket, a fetus is a parasite living off the mother's body. It cannot survive outside the host until a certain length of time has passed... 

True...and?

 

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2 hours ago, Ferret said:

Yes it is. But, not all women know when they are pregnant nor if the pregnancy is going to affect their or the baby's health. Many women who are underweight or overly athletic do not menstruate. In the second case, it is between the woman and her Doctor. The government has no business in the decision.

...and therefore anyone in consultation with their doctor should decide to be or not be vaxxed, wear a mask...right?

The next argument should be why can't a father murder his daughter for bringing shame upon him? After all, it's just between family members so why does the government have any interest. See where this thinking might lead? If you don't believe a fetus is a person just say that rather than cloud the issue. Blacks were deemed to be not persons by that government and how did that work out? Not in my lifetime but someday abortion will be looked upon as worse than slavery.

 

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2 hours ago, AndyPanda said:

One: lots of side effects. Two: many people don't want to take any more drugs than they already have to. Three: cost. If Texas or any one of those anti-abortion states would help to pay for condoms, the pill, the morning-after pill, it might help. The morning-after pill should be immediately offered after every rape report, if necessary. But until reporting a rape becomes a fact and not a "you probably asked for it" situation, this ain't gonna happen.

The savings to the social medical systems far outweigh the initial cost and prejudices.

Hmmm...you mean those people with smart phones, full grocery carts, cigs, drugs, alcohol can't afford to pay for birth control? Hmmm...

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7 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

...and therefore anyone in consultation with their doctor should decide to be or not be vaxxed, wear a mask...right?

The next argument should be why can't a father murder his daughter for bringing shame upon him? After all, it's just between family members so why does the government have any interest. See where this thinking might lead? If you don't believe a fetus is a person just say that rather than cloud the issue. Blacks were deemed to be not persons by that government and how did that work out? Not in my lifetime but someday abortion will be looked upon as worse than slavery.

 

If we follow your logic then sending our sons to war is worse than slavery

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Just now, Jreboll said:

If we follow your logic then sending our sons to war is worse than slavery

You flunked Logic 101.

 

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BTW, do you know the origins of the term "Just war"?  And sending our sons to Vietnam, the Middle East when our country was not attacked might just be worse than slavery. Afghanistan in the beginning was a just war. Iraq was not. 

 

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52 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

Hmmm...you mean those people with smart phones, full grocery carts, cigs, drugs, alcohol can't afford to pay for birth control? Hmmm...

What a typical statement from someone who has never stepped across the tracks and has no idea how the other "half" lives, but throws around his white privilege just like the politicians he votes for.

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56 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

...and therefore anyone in consultation with their doctor should decide to be or not be vaxxed, wear a mask...right?

The next argument should be why can't a father murder his daughter for bringing shame upon him? After all, it's just between family members so why does the government have any interest. See where this thinking might lead? If you don't believe a fetus is a person just say that rather than cloud the issue. Blacks were deemed to be not persons by that government and how did that work out? Not in my lifetime but someday abortion will be looked upon as worse than slavery.

An irrelevant conclusion, also known as ignoratio elenchi. Reducto ad absurdum.

For one thing, we already have laws about murder of the type you speak. And we already have laws protecting women's rights. Conservatives have been fighting that law since 1973 and losing, and losing, and losing again.

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15 minutes ago, AndyPanda said:

What a typical statement from someone who has never stepped across the tracks and has no idea how the other "half" lives, but throws around his white privilege just like the politicians he votes for.

Hahahahaha...you have no idea how I have lived. "White Privilege"...another racist dog whistle. But you didn't answer the question. Are you saying they can't afford birth control? What else can't they afford that society at large should be paying for...since we're on the topic of what people can't afford on their own.

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25 minutes ago, Jreboll said:

So there are “just wars” but no just reason for a woman to have an abortion.

since you seem to be the master of reason, we should call you when a war is needed or a woman’s need has to be addressed.

"I want". "I need"...what else can we help you with?

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A male Mexican friend told me that Mexican babies were born with a "bollilo" and that two more feet under the dining table was never a big problem in a working class (taxi driver) family. It is the women, in this case, who put an end to that notion. It is always their health and good looks at risk.

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6 hours ago, pappysmarket said:

Hahahahaha...you have no idea how I have lived. "White Privilege"...another racist dog whistle. But you didn't answer the question. Are you saying they can't afford birth control? What else can't they afford that society at large should be paying for...since we're on the topic of what people can't afford on their own.

You think by giving a label such as racist dog whistle that you are improving your argument? Hardly. Just another example of deflection. And now you are diving deep into the crapper of those who are against helping their own kind. I will hear no more of it. Enjoy your beliefs. I can't.

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I will admit I have never understood why anyone would think they have the right to force a woman to endure pregnancy against her will. Or why a clump of fetal cells is more important than a woman. There can be a million reasons for having an abortion - one out of four women in the US has had one - and most all I would agree with. But it is not my decision to make.

Yes it would be preferable if birth control were safer, cheaper, more easily available and always worked. In a perfect world there would be no rape or incest. There would be no pregnancies gone terribly wrong where the life or health of the mother is at risk. No one would ever be diagnosed with cancer and told that without chemo they would almost certainly die but the fetus would not survive either way. These are very personal decisions to be made by the woman and those she chooses to include, not Brother Billy Bob or Senator only-my mistress-can-have-an-abortion.

And yes I have been active in Planned Parenthood since the 70s.

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57 minutes ago, gringal said:

I'm still waiting to hear a good reason why primarily male legislators have any business passing laws restricting abortions. Why not?  OBVIOUS!!!

I have heard some intelligent arguments in the past as to why abortion should be allowed. This is not one of them.

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11 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

I have heard some intelligent arguments in the past as to why abortion should be allowed. This is not one of them.

Oh,  you mean that men have an inherent right to rule over women's choices?  When men can get pregnant, willingly or not, I'll buy your point.

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Pappysmarket feels he has the corner on logic and reasoning. He thinks you should pass it by him in order to justify.  And that is the center of the whole argument. You shouldn’t have to pass everything by an old fogey in order to get it done. It should be a right of a woman.

 

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One thing anti-abortionists conveniently ignore when they blame women for getting pregnant with an unwanted child, is that women don't cause pregnancies, men do. 

Women are born with all the eggs they will ever have already in place. Men's bodies create sperm which can fertilize those eggs. It's the men who should be the ones responsible for birth control- if they got a vasectomy or wrapped that thing, there wouldn't be any unwanted pregnancies.

Women are the victims of unwanted pregnancies, not the ones who are responsible for them.

And I've got news for you antiabortionists- women have been finding ways to abort unwanted pregnancies for a long, long, time. So-called primitive tribes had and have herbs they use for that. There's about as much chance of eliminating abortion as there is of eliminating drugs or alcohol. People will do what they want to do- you can make it safe for them to do so, like in countries with safe injection sites where junkies get clean needles so they don't spread disease around, or make them hide out in dirty back alleys and share needles. Same goes for abortion- those who rail against it and pass draconian laws trying to make it illegal apparently don't care if women have to get a coat hangar abortion and die of sepsis. So much for "pro-life".

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