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Mandatory vaccines ?


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..One of the first premises of this  particular article on why vaccines should not be mandated is of course completely false …it uses the word “ immune “  even without variants no one is immune … the completely vaccinated , people with comprised immune systems ,  children under the age of 12 who cannot be vaccinated and many others for a multitude of reasons  who can never be … “  immune “ As the delta variant and perhaps new variants appear on the horizon …mandated vaccinations for certain segments of the population should and will happen ..probably soon .

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So, how do you determine who has natural immunity?

There are those who smoke, drink alcohol and still live to old age. 

I’ve  heard of a couple of rock stars who have done drugs all their lives and are now still rocking in their old age. 

Does this mean that the exception makes the rule?

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I have a friend who had covid a year ago in April and he is down again with it,.. Is that immune enough? By the way I see that a lot in the indigenous communities where they were no masks and do not pay attention to the rules.

 

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I understand the connection between antibodies and immunity however no one really knows just how many antibodies people with minor cases and the a symptomatic really produce , not to mention how long those antibodies last .

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And it's not just antibodies. Antibodies circulate when they are needed and are made on demand by T cells and B cells which are the "memory" cells. Nobody has constantly circulating antibodies for everything to which we have been exposed in life.

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In Seattle area getting shot of Pfizer to go with my first A.Z. shot and visit my family.  Yesterday state workers, Seattle gubment employees and King county employees are all required to be vaccinated by middle of next month or they will lose jobs.  They are all strongly suggesting private companies do the same thing.  Other counties are waiting for the fallout to see if they want to do the same.  FYI Seattle is where all this started in the US.

Here is what is just the biggest mystery to me.  Nobody is suggesting we mandate masks again. Mandating vaccines before mandating masks???   Mask use here is much worse than lakeside.  Even my anti vaccine friends wear masks lakeside.  Also it is very interesting to see the difference in vaccine rates locally.  In Bellevue (across the lake from Seattle where I am at) compliance is over 70%. To the east, south and north (west puts you in the sound) rates drop way down. So there is an economic connection to vaccination rate at least here.  Bellevue is extremely well educated, affluent and is the most diverse city in the Pacific NW.  Twenty seven different languages are spoken here. So what is so problematic about wearing masks??

See ya on the plaza when I get back!

 

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Agree with you, Ferret about T and B cells. However, my understanding is that antibodies are disease specific , which is why 

This test can be useful, especially for someone who is perhaps battling Covid for the second time…

 

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The friend who is battling covid for the second time lives in CHiapas and is indigenous so forget tests, vaccine or anything else, it is swim or sink and it is all up to God...according to them.

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This is the man who said we would have herd immunity by April 2021. He is also an oncologist and gastroenterologist NOT an immunologist. He thinks he is better informed that the head of U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID).

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Good point WideSky, and yet, as you may know, the practice of Oncology relies on the

science of Immunology. Since this Dr. is an Oncologist, a professor of medicine, and the

editor of MedPage today, can we assume that he probably has a working knowledge of

Immunology ? 

I am curious. When Dr. Fauci gives us instruction, do you say to yourself “ and this from the guy who told us that we did not need to wear masks ? “ 

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Why do we keep bringing up the past.  We haven’t seen a pandemic such as this in our lifetime.  There are twists and turns and one has to navigate as best as one can.  I’ll take Fauci’s suggestions because he has been right most of the time and he isn’t playing politics.  Just ask the naysayers who are pushing daisies now.

 

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https://news.yahoo.com/cdc-says-travelers-avoid-france-204358179.html

 

Please, can someone smarter than me please explain this article to me?  If I'm not mistaken, I remember reading about how Israel and Iceland were both being internationally applauded for having some of the highest vaccinated populations in the world against Covid.  I think Israel even used Pfizer and J&J to vaccinate their people which are both the best against the Delta variant.  Why are they now on the CDC list of countries to avoid?  And no mention of México and any other Latin American country.  Am I missunderstanding something.  If vaccines can't keep little Iceland and Israel with their very small, close to being, fully vaccinated populations off the no travel list.  Why are we made to believe vaccines should be mandated in the first place to further enrich the pharmaceutical companies especially when they just recently announced that they would be raising the price of Pfizer in Europe.

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Another thing to point out is that East Asian countries are some of the most compliant populations in the world when it comes to the wearing of face masks and obeying government mandated shut downs.  Now the news keeps talking about how these countries are beginning to have surging cases again and Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia among others are going back into lock downs again even though they never ever truly have opened up their tourist sites since the start of the Pandemic.  So my question is, if mask mandates can't keep the most compliant mask wearing populations on the planet safe from the virus, then why are we obsessing and enforcing it so much if it helps little?  Seriously it is too late to try to stop this virus.  Anything the government does in regarding restrictions and lock downs just prolong the pandemic and the inevitable.  But its not saving anybody's lives because it just comes back or worse mutates and comes back.  We should just learn to accept it and treat as we do the annual flu and get back to our lives.  Nothing the government has done or can do has made it go away yet.

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1 minute ago, dichosalocura said:

Another thing to point out is that East Asian countries are some of the most compliant populations in the world when it comes to the wearing of face masks and obeying government mandated shut downs.  Now the news keeps talking about how these countries are beginning to have surging cases again and Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia among others are going back into lock downs again even though they never ever truly have opened up their tourist sites since the start of the Pandemic.  So my question is, if mask mandates can't keep the most compliant mask wearing populations on the planet safe from the virus, then why are we obsessing and enforcing it so much if it helps little?  Seriously it is too late to try to stop this virus.  Anything the government does in regarding restrictions and lock downs just prolong the pandemic and the inevitable.  But its not saving anybodies lives because it just comes or mutates and comes back.  We should just learn to accept it and treat as we do the annual flu and get back to our lives.  Nothing the government has done or can do has made it go away yet.

You make the assumption that people are getting the virus because masks don't work.  It could be a dozen other factors one being high density population for example but it does make one think.

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I don't have enough knowledge to form a veritable opinion yet anyhow.  I'm just raising interesting and valid points to politely add to the conversation and to get people thinking independently.  My only opinion is that something smells fishy and I don't believe everything I read either.  We should all be free to have our own independent opinions.

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the full text of the court ruling is here:

https://www.scribd.com/document/511055321/Boone-Circuit-Court-Order

I would call special attention to the expert witnes Stephen E. Petty, P.E., CIH, testified as an expert witness

His quote"Masks are worthless, he explained, because they are not capable of filtering anything as small as Covid-19 aerosols."

The key word, aerosols, you "think" your mask protects you?

Go, put on your mask, ask to use some hairspray, spray paint, something in a pressurized can, spray it in a room, with your mask on, do you smell what you sprayed, your mask does not work.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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There have been studies done where they measure the distance breathing droplets go under different conditions and it’s obvious that any protection that can lessen the viral load reaching the next person justifies its use.  The effect is much more significant in enclosed spaces.

there are also studies that show that the delta variant will infect more people so anything we can do to help should be considered.

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It's a pandemic folks!  A virus like the World has never seen before. And it mutating. There is no 'script' where we or anyone can be instructed to 'turn to page 17' and follow the directions. Why all the angst against those who are trying to help us get through this!

Trying to make analogies to something else (flu), or some other place (Asia), or some edict that worked or didn't for some (masks and distancing) etc etc is just, IMO, an exercise in mental masturbation. 

Maybe... no probably....the masks aren't a perfect solution. Nor is distancing.  So let's just all throw up our hands and do nothing anyone suggests, call them fools for misleading us, intentionally or not, and declare victory for the virus. Herd thinning it's called. 

 There are PLENTY folks who aren't comfortable getting the jab and rail against us that do..... calling it an infringement on their 'rights' or an outright scam created by the big bad government. But my reading leads me to believe that every thing probably helps. If the vaccine wasn't helping as tons of folks are convinced it is not, then why currently are the places where the vaccination is least likely to be taken.... like the southern US for example..... the exact places where 97% of the current hospital population has NOT been vaccinated!?!  Arkansas has ZERO beds available as of tonight's news report, Texas is not far behind and Florida where a well known radio host in West Palm Beach, who has made a recent career of bad mouthing the vaccine and its purveyors and wouldn't get the vaccine on a dare, .... just got Covid!  3 days later he told his wife that he made a big mistake and should have gotten the jab. Then he died. 

That's my independent opinion.....

 

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 i just saw an interview with a Mexican doctors saying that the Delta varient will contaminate 9 people wjhen the regular cod contaminated 1 so anything we can do should help. We all had dinner Friday night so no masks during dinner and one of us came down with covid Wednesday.. it makes you womder who he got it from, of course it could be the colectivo going home nut still.. it is a little unnerving   We were all vaccinated except the one who got covid.. so may be they help maybe they do not but I am happy I am vaccinated.

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When I walk on a plaza and most people are without masks, I become forgetful and/or complacent of the pandemic danger.  Then when I see someone with a mask on, I come back to reality.   I am reminded to keep a couple of meters away from everyone so I take some steps back from all I come close to.  A mask is a mitigating factor in the protection from the virus if for no other reason it is a reminder to social distance.

There is no certainity in life, but masks and vacs are the best we have at this time.  

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You are right kiko. Right now I work in communities where no one wears masks and it is difficult to remember to keep distances. Granted we are all outside but till with no reminder ,to keep away it is difficult to do.

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