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I have searched here for information posted about memberships in fraccionamientos not being compulsory.  To no avail.    Is there a law, and where can I find it, municipal, state or federal relevant to membership.   Thanks 

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When the fracc was approved by the local municipality they submitted the CC&R's that would be in place when approved. 

The CC&R,s that were written and afterwards amended govern the Fracc.  When you bought the property you accepted the CC&R's regarding the property and if there is an association you entered into membership in the association that governs the fracc. If there are dues you are obligated to pay. 

Just like if you move into town you accept the town's laws when you become a resident and are obligated to pay local taxes. 

Fraccs are governed by corporate law. You should have a copy of the rules & regulations. 

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A Fraccioamiento is an A .C. and as such one cannot be forced to join.

However don't expect free services - garbage collection, water, etc. and when you try to sell and the purchasers discover the house is required to pay a penalty to rejoin that may be an issue.

People who don't pat their fair share of living in a Fracc are termed morosos and are not thought kindly of.

SunFan

 

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1 minute ago, SunFan said:

A Fraccioamiento is an A .C. and as such one cannot be forced to join.

However don't expect free services - garbage collection, water, etc. and when you try to sell and the purchasers discover the house is required to pay a penalty to rejoin that may be an issue.

People who don't pat their fair share of living in a Fracc are termed morosos and are not thought kindly of.

SunFan

 

In all respect you are wrong. Consult a corporate attorney. 

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Just now, Mostlylost said:

In all respect you are wrong. Consult a corporate attorney. 

This was just discussed in detail at the inaugural meeting of the Lakeside Fraccionamientos Association. Eight major fraccs were in attendance as well as an attorney who represents three of the Fraccs.

SunFan

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15 minutes ago, SunFan said:

This was just discussed in detail at the inaugural meeting of the Lakeside Fraccionamientos Association. Eight major fraccs were in attendance as well as an attorney who represents three of the Fraccs.

SunFan

Not knowing who the attorney who attended is,  makes it difficult for me to judge their ability or knowledge. 

I have seen many instances of attorneys in the Chapala who are well respected,  not understanding corporate or real estate law, and giving advice to boards and to residents that was dead wrong.   

I have also seen rules & regulations that were copied from other fraccs that were loaded with errors. Even including rules that contradicted state laws and were approved by the associations atty.

 

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19 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

Not knowing who the attorney who attended is,  makes it difficult for me to judge their ability or knowledge. 

I have seen many instances of attorneys in the Chapala who are well respected,  not understanding corporate or real estate law, and giving advice to boards and to residents that was dead wrong.   

I have also seen rules & regulations that were copied from other fraccs that were loaded with errors. Even including rules that contradicted state laws and were approved by the associations atty.

 

I'm missing your point.

SunFan

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23 hours ago, SunFan said:

This was just discussed in detail at the inaugural meeting of the Lakeside Fraccionamientos Association.

SunFan

What can you tell me about this "Lakeside Fraccionamiento Assoc"? I would of loved to have been able to attend if that was possible.

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1 hour ago, ragtopman said:

What can you tell me about this "Lakeside Fraccionamiento Assoc"? I would of loved to have been able to attend if that was possible.

A similar group was viable many years ago. A useful and informative gathering but like most "things" it fell by the wayside thro lack of interest. A great opportunity to swap and share experience's, if memory serves me correctly the meetings took place at the Chapala Country Club.

John Keeling was the organizer for a separate group of Coto members, not sure if he still runs it

One of the common thread concerned always being expressed..How do you collect money from the delinquent owners!!!..was then and is now!!

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16 minutes ago, lakeside7 said:

A similar group was viable many years ago. A useful and informative gathering but like most "things" it fell by the wayside thro lack of interest. A great opportunity to swap and share experience's, if memory serves me correctly the meetings took place at the Chapala Country Club.

John Keeling was the organizer for a separate group of Coto members, not sure if he still runs it

One of the common thread concerned always being expressed..How do you collect money from the delinquent owners!!!..was then and is now!!

Cut their water off ☺️

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Yes you can cut the water off if it is a private system owned and operated/maintained by the fracc.  Just need to make it inconvenient for them by supplying a spigot they can use a bucket to get water from, hopefully too far from their house that they cannot reach it with a water hose.  Very effective collection tool with deadbeats.

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7 minutes ago, Ezzie said:

Yes you can cut the water off if it is a private system owned and operated/maintained by the fracc.  Just need to make it inconvenient for them by supplying a spigot they can use a bucket to get water from, hopefully too far from their house that they cannot reach it with a water hose.  Very effective collection tool with deadbeats.

Unless you have someone who has dug their own well on their property or someone who doesn't live there permanently and can simply get a pipa (water truck) delivered when they need it. I live in a fracc also and it's a big problem.

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14 minutes ago, Ezzie said:

Yes you can cut the water off if it is a private system owned and operated/maintained by the fracc.  Just need to make it inconvenient for them by supplying a spigot they can use a bucket to get water from, hopefully too far from their house that they cannot reach it with a water hose.  Very effective collection tool with deadbeats.

The water your fracc manages is federal water. All water in Mexico belongs to the federal government government.  If you cut their water below the minimum needed to live you are in violation of their rights The government can't do it., nor can a private corporation such as a fracc. 

The person responsible for the order to cut off their water completely could face criminal charges. Possible civil actions as well.

If you have first hand knowledge of a fracc that was able to do it  please publish the example, and the legal result. 

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Fun

Just some quick points

1) You don't have to be a member of an A.C.

2) If the Rules are approved by the Municipality and published as municipal law they are considered as such and must be followed. ( There are few that have done this)

3) If you sign a contract saying you are a member of the Association then you must follow rules and pay.

4) If you are honest you will pay and follow rules as when you bought you should have known. And especially if there is water involved to legally sell you must have a letter saying the water is paid.

5) I do not know of any criminal law against cutting off someone's water. Someone will always try  to argue that and I have helped in a  few defenses and have never seen anyone even close to being convicted.  As there are criminal codes imbedded in other types of codes there could be something somewhere???? I have not seen it.  I would be more inclined to say a problem with Derechos Humanos.  There are different minimums allowed I think the latest one I found was 20 liters a day and it can be up to 1 km from the address.

6) Although well and water are owned by the Federal Govermment they give you a Titulo to operate the well. They don't seem to get involved after that.

7)The minimums on water distribution are usually imposed by the Municipality. You should check the Municipal Law. Some as I remember allow you to shut off totally and some a percentage. Some of the larger developments in Guadalajara cut off the water completely. I recommend a minimum daily and a source less than a km away just to cover all bases and not leave any reason for the morosos to bug you with dumb lawsuits.

 

Important to remember that HOA help the municipality lower their operating costs and they need to be reminded of this and convinced into approving the HOA's rules  and help with enforcement.

 

Consult with a good attorney ( if you can find one ) as this was just posted for general info as remembered. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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ambconsultants  I do not agree with you on some points as our fracionamiento just went through a membership to our fraccionamiento.  We were told by our attorney and subsequently in a hearing with a judge that, property owners must submit to the membership at an AGM or SGM their desire to not be part of our fraccionamiento.  The entire membership in attendance at those meetings must vote to accept their resignation from the fraccionamiento.  When you purchase property within the fraccionamiento you are a member of the fraccionamiento and are subject to their Constitutive Acts, Bylaws and Rules and Regulations documents.  One property owner had not paid dues for many years for their house and a a lot that they own, stating they sent a letter to the Board saying they were no longer part of our fraccionamiento.  The judge ruled against them stating what I just told you about how they must legally remove their membership from the fraccionamiento.  The judge ordered them to pay a negotiated amount for back dues.

And, wells are owned by whoever owns the lot where they are located, unless otherwise stipulated in a legal contract.  The Federal government only regulates the water itself.  We send quarterly reports to CNA for our water usage and pay fees based on that usage.

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If you got a judgement like that fabulous as I have not seen it cannot say why the judge decided that. Here are a couple clips form the Jalisco Civil  law. Sorry for the Spanish

Clarification- One thing is to be a member of an A.C. that governs the development and another thing is to be obligated toand pay dues  abide by rules and bylaws or the A.C. because you live a a development.

 

How members join and excluded or separate.

1) When you become member:

Artículo 172.- Cuando varias personas convienen en reunirse, de manera que no sea enteramente transitoria, para realizar un fin común que no esté prohibido por la ley y que no tenga carácter preponderantemente económico, constituyen una asociación.

So I interpret this that you can join if you want. Now if the rules are approved by Municipality a judge could judge you are an automatic member?  

A good idea is when a new member joins all is usually happy and Before services are turned on have them sign a contract with the Association which then will be approved by the assembly at the first meeting.

This does not mean you do not have top pay dues or obey the rules you just don't get to vote in the fun meetings

Actually legally if you receive services you must pay for them.  As discussed I do not know any criminal law against shutting off water but on the other hand I do see criminal possibilities against people who get water and take actions not to pay.

2) Artículo 181.- La asamblea general resolverá:

I. Sobre la admisión y exclusión de asociados;

So this states that the assembly will decide on the admision or exclusion of members.

3) Artículo 184.- Los miembros de la asociación tendrán derecho de separarse de ella, previo aviso dado con dos meses de anticipación.

Members will have the right to separate with two months notice.

 

For the legal minds here I see a difference between excluded ( when you kick them out ) or when they voluntarily separate.  I

I hope I am helping the ones that are paying and not giving ideas to the deadbeats....

This is not legal advise..... 

 

The options for compliance.

Legally the civil code requires that the seller have a No debt letter for water supply. New construction permits should be in accordance with legal rules.

Water restriction.

Rules approved and published as municipal law  where fines and can be applied. This should obligate the Municipality to at least help with enforcement.

 I am looking at a new option for new developments that would link there ownership to compliance, but it not not that easy.

 

 

 

 

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