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A little science about those face masks


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3 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Look I somewhat understand why you are so fearful and obsessed with this.

I am neither fearful nor obsessed, so you can stuff your condescension. You love to say things like that because it allows you to dismiss what those who don't see things like you do have to say.

I live my life now pretty much exactly as you said you do. I'm not cowering in my house, afraid to go out.I'm certainly not wearing a mask in my car, I wear it when it makes sense to.

It seems to be you who is obsessed, as you keep starting topic posts to try to prove what a nothing burger COVID is.

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Neither a nothing burger nor the worst pandemic ever.  Certainly not even close to being worth the havoc wreaked on jobs, childrens' educations, small family business, health of the healthy and, you know, those regular folks who don't have those nice SS checks, pensions and 401Ks who used to be self supporting but are now wondering where their next meal is coming from.

History will see this as being the cure worse than the disease.

I'll be glad to do a thread count on covid topics so we will see who has started the most threads and made the most posts about it.  The winner gets the title of Super Spreader of covid posts.  We on?

Betcha got most of us including me beat hands down.  :D

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It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Everybody is still learning and nobody knows the best way to deal with it. Certainly doing business masked and distanced is a relatively safe no brainer. Some people don't get that. But where do you draw the line? If the option is being inconvenienced for short periods of not being able to make a living versus catching Covid and 1) not surviving  or 2) spreading to family members or 3) having a long recovery... then I think the former is the better choice. YMMV.

 

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Isn’t that how we approach life’s journey in general?  Risk vs reward?

i just find it ridiculous that some feel compelled to have others think like they do.  We know the facts and can make our own decisions. We don’t need Mainecoons to keep coming up with all this crap. 

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1 hour ago, Jreboll said:

Isn’t that how we approach life’s journey in general?  Risk vs reward?

i just find it ridiculous that some feel compelled to have others think like they do.  We know the facts and can make our own decisions. We don’t need Mainecoons to keep coming up with all this crap. 

Especially when the crap calls into question your positions on something.  :D 

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2 hours ago, kam said:

Title should have been "Very little science and a whole lot of opinion about..."

I posted two references from credible sources, the second of which is quite detailed and ongoing.  If the papers and their references were beyond your capacity to understand, I apologize.  BTW the text of the first, a peer reviewed study, is supported by the references which can be viewed by clicking on them.  I feel pretty confident none of you have done any of that.   Kam, I seriously doubt you have 1% of the qualifications and the backgrounds of the medical and research professionals who prepared these two references.  I don't either but I do know how to read technical literature.

The point is twofold:  First the "science" of mask wearing is very much in discussion and investigation and is far from established at this point.  Second, a lot of the so-called proof of mask efficacy equates apples and oranges, namely the use of real protective masks by medical professionals in supportive environments is not the same as the actual reality of most of the masks the public uses and how they use them.

Title should have been, "Very little chance any of this will sway you all from your mask religion."

:D 

 

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19 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

I posted two references from credible sources, the second of which is quite detailed and ongoing.  If the papers and their references were beyond your capacity to understand, I apologize. 

Just who the hell do you think bothers to read your posts when you start off with that kind of sad attack? You should be drummed out of here.

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On 4/19/2021 at 11:30 PM, elevator said:

Flu cases dropped 98% Oct-Jan of this year. All the data points to the measures taken to prevent Covid 19 spread. as the reason for the precipitous drop.

Or maybe Flu cases being recorded as Covid 19 cases.  My understanding is that medical facilities get paid more for Covid 19 cases, so it stands to reason.

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47 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

I posted two references from credible sources, the second of which is quite detailed and ongoing.  If the papers and their references were beyond your capacity to understand, I apologize.

Give it a rest. You can bark all you want but I am still not letting you in the house.

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46 minutes ago, ldrews said:

Or maybe Flu cases being recorded as Covid 19 cases.  My understanding is that medical facilities get paid more for Covid 19 cases, so it stands to reason.

Your "understanding" obviously comes from conspiracy websites. Doctors don't lie about the cause of death. That's such an ignorant idea (not to mention unbelievably rude to all the doctors and nurses working around the clock to try to save the COVID patients) and the only place it stands to reason is in your addled mind.

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6 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

History will see this as being the cure worse than the disease.

Whose version of "history"?     Your usually intelligent posts are way off the mark here, and if the majority of respected posters telling you that isn't sufficient, then that is most unfortunate.....there was no local value to starting and continuing this thread IMHO, the science behind masking is solid, it is proven, and saying or re-"tweeting" otherwise does all a dis-service.

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16 hours ago, virgo lady said:

Whose version of "history"?     Your usually intelligent posts are way off the mark here, and if the majority of respected posters telling you that isn't sufficient, then that is most unfortunate.....there was no local value to starting and continuing this thread IMHO, the science behind masking is solid, it is proven, and saying or re-"tweeting" otherwise does all a dis-service.

Yes the science behind real masks properly worn by medical professionals is well proven.  And should not be confused with silly porous cloth masks worn incorrectly and seldom if ever cleaned by the public.

Quote

1. Studies on the effectiveness of face masks

So far, most studies found little to no evidence for the effectiveness of cloth face masks in the general population, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control.

  1. A May 2020 meta-study on pandemic influenza published by the US CDC found that face masks had no effect, neither as personal protective equipment nor as a source control. (Source)
  2. A Danish randomized controlled trial with 6000 participants, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in November 2020, found no statistically significant effect of high-quality medical face masks against SARS-CoV-2 infection in a community setting. (Source)
  3. A large randomized controlled trial with close to 8000 participants, published in October 2020 in PLOS One, found that face masks “did not seem to be effective against laboratory-confirmed viral respiratory infections nor against clinical respiratory infection.” (Source)
  4. A February 2021 review by the European CDC found no significant evidence supporting the effectiveness of non-medical and medical face masks in the community. Furthermore, the European CDC advised against the use of FFP2/N95 masks by the general public. (Source)
  5. A July 2020 review by the Oxford Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of cloth masks against virus infection or transmission. (Source)
  6. A November 2020 Cochrane review found that face masks did not reduce influenza-like illness (ILI) cases, neither in the general population nor in health care workers. (Source)
  7. An April 2020 review by two US professors in respiratory and infectious disease from the University of Illinois concluded that face masks have no effect in everyday life, neither as self-protection nor to protect third parties (so-called source control). (Source)
  8. An article in the New England Journal of Medicine from May 2020 came to the conclusion that cloth face masks offer little to no protection in everyday life. (Source)
  9. A 2015 study in the British Medical Journal BMJ Open found that cloth masks were penetrated by 97% of particles and may increase infection risk by retaining moisture or repeated use. (Source)
  10. An August 2020 review by a German professor in virology, epidemiology and hygiene found that there is no evidence for the effectiveness of cloth face masks and that the improper daily use of masks by the public may in fact lead to an increase in infections. (Source)

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

 

There is no version of future history yet, obviously.  That is my opinion of how future history will view this covid craziness.  You are entitled to your own opinion.

The majority of "respected" posters are not the medical and research professionals who prepared and continue to expand the findings on the efficacy and limits of masks in the real world.  If you were sick would you consult any poster here, including me?  I hope not.

 

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Another "reliable source"?

"Swiss Policy Research (SPR), founded in 2016, is an independent, nonpartisan and nonprofit research group investigating geopolitical propaganda. SPR is composed of independent academics and receives no external funding other than reader donations. Our articles have been published by numerous independent media outlets and have been translated into more than two dozen languages."

Could you maybe use something we're all more familiar with...like the BBC?

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You're joking, right?  Hard to get more credible than the scientists involved in this. 

I've now posted three different professionally done, highly documented and at least one peer reviewed study of this topic. 

Really, draw your own conclusions and do accordingly.  For myself, I am under no illusion whatsoever these non medical masks used and cleaned more or less, mostly less, by the public do anything other than create a fiction of safety.  Repeatedly I have seen this pointed out even in many of the references which support the use of masks by the public.

The other common denominator I've seen, including in update of the Harvard study I did not post because it is from April of last year, is the key to avoiding covid is to avoid close contact in groups for prolonged periods.  The science is unanimous in this regard.  Social distancing works.  Amateur hour mask usage?  Good luck.

 

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