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Climate change and Mexico- Solutions?


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Recently I witnessed a horror show on a recent tread that was shutdown by the moderators as it quickly descended into chaos. But the questions raised had no solutions. So I am hoping we can have a discussion here that actually finds solutions. Yes there are some. As the truth is climate change is a debate for a reason. But regardless of what side of the argument you stand on, there are real environment concerns that we deal with here in Mexico everyday. Big example is air quality. https://aqicn.org/city/guadalajara/ its currently listed as unhealthy. To put it into perspective, air quality here is the equivalent to smoking 2 packs a day. Can we do anything about it?  not sure, but we can try.

I am hoping we can avoid the problems the last tread had, which is this, this forum has a reputation for personal attacks and a lot of people just want to post negative responses. So before you post, ask yourself this, am I helping or contributing in any way? are these just my own opinion's or do I have any supporting my claims? 

Opinions are welcome, both for or against, if the move the conversation forward. but if you just want  to make a snarky remark, there are a lot of other threads, so feel free to make them there, get it out of your system, then come back.

Ok so lets get into it.

What can we do? Well I think we need to understand the underlying problem with the debate in the first place. In that's how we approach the argument. This is where we need to start. There is a very large component of the debate that is psychological in nature. I was made aware recently that a lot of people are completely unaware or incapable of associating that their action can have negative consequences. This is something we all need to accept. Everything we do has the potential to have negative consequences. 

The other thing that will help us is the theory that we should think globally and act locally. How can we do that? well we need to advocate and educate. The best way to do that is to have discussions like this in an open and free way that encourages unification on ideas and promotes actions that has a positive impact on where we live.

But we need to take small steps, as the situation we are in took generations and it will take probably generations to correct. so I offer the first small step. Air quality here is bad and we can help. It seems here there is a lot of people burning stuff, not exactly sure why, but in my neighborhood, they have been burning the fields nearby. for the last week i have seen clouds of black smoke billowing across the horizon. Also my wife comes home with the inside of her mask blacked with smoke and debris in the air. The reason? well it seems that when they burn the fields, they don't clean it first, as the fields are littered with tires and other garbage. 

Sad part of this is labor here is cheap, had I known this was the practice here I would have volunteered or hired guys to clean the fields first. Its not the answer but it is a start. So i am planning to find out if there is a schedule of the burning and see about organizing a way to get the fields cleaned before hand.

So that is my efforts, any other suggestions?

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I think there is huge breakthrough in solar power, as I posted on another thread, recycled Electric Vehicle batteries. Now a typical EV battery is retired when it is two thirds through its life, but this is enough to impair the EV performance, and the fear of getting stuck on the road with a dead, non-rechargeable battery. Apparently this remaining two thirds is enough juice for five to ten years in a typical household There are going to be 100,000 plus of these batteries hitting the waste stream per year within the next few years. A Chinese company is setting up a lithium recovery factory in Mexico. I would guess they would sell these two thirds batteries. Solar panel prices are dropping, inverter qualities are improving, and now electrical storage is affordable. Also space companies like Starlink, providing high speed internet and telephone, there is the opportunity to live completely off the grid. No CFE, no Telcel or Telmex, no cable. Now think of the climate change improvements. Mexico has three nuclear power plants, coal burning electrical plants, and I believe some bunker oil plants.

Someone has to source these used EV batteries and make them easily available to Mexican solar installers. Tested and waranteed.

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Some suggestions:  

1.  Crack down on open burning, a pervasive practice here.  Target industrial air and water polluters.  

2.  Join with other nations to go after the world's #1 polluter increasing by leaps and bounds, China.

3.  Much better transit in cities like GDL.

4.  Instead of squandering money on a railroad in the boonies no one wants and that will be a colossal flop, connect the major urban areas across central Mexico with high speed rail.  The population density is there.

5.  Strong emphasis on rail freight to cut down on trucking.

6.  Serious general enforcement of vehicle emissions.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, CHILLIN said:

Mexico has three nuclear power plants...

Laguna Verde Nuclear Power Plant (LVNPP) is located on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico, in Alto Lucero, Veracruz, Mexico. It is the only nuclear power plant in Mexico...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_Verde_Nuclear_Power_Station

600px-Laguna_Verde_Nuclear_Power_Station

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Sorry, I was given this information by an inside source - Ing Homer Simpson

So what is part of your solution Angus?

Start with individual family homes, which equipment you can take with you. Let CFE deal with its electrical gobblers. I am tired of subsidizing them.

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25 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

1.  Crack down on open burning, a pervasive practice here.  Target industrial air and water polluters.  

ok this is a good suggestion, as I think it is some thing we can actually do something about. Because I do believe if it is really a concern, we should see if there is a solution we can be active on.  

But as a part time resident, I am not sure cracking down on anything is in my abilities, but as part of a concerned group, I think we can find the information needed to forward this idea.

“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not wait to see what others do.” – Mahatma Gandhi

This is an interesting quote as it leads to solutions not conflict. That's what we need. Because the real truth is to change the climate, we need to change the way we think. 

As far as the use of solar or green energy. I will be honest, I was a big believer.  but over the years, I have worked with a lot of companies installing systems in Canada (mainly Industrial) and the experience left me questioning the whole thing. In fact it left me as a sceptic. So much so, I had become an advocate of Nuclear. But since my arrival to Mexico, I have realize the environment here is much more favorable and I am reexploring it to see if there is a real benefit. 

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1 hour ago, CHILLIN said:

Sorry, I was given this information by an inside source - Ing Homer Simpson

So what is part of your solution Angus?

Start with individual family homes, which equipment you can take with you. Let CFE deal with its electrical gobblers. I am tired of subsidizing them.

Sack the newly introduced Morena energy reform bill now being pushed through the federal government. A huge step backwards for environmental management that was in place. Relies heavily on fossil fuels and not on green energies as what was the other constitutional energy reform bill did in 2013 which will be overwritten when this new energy reform bill gets passed.

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It all starts with education. You won't get Mexicans to stop burning garbage until they are educated as to how it harms themselves and their families.

I had a friend who was a nurse-practitioner in California, and most of his patients were Mexican/American. He said the hardest thing was convincing them to change their diets, when they were suffering from obesity, heart disease and diabetes. He finally started asking them if it was important to them to live to see their children graduate from university or to live long enough to see their grandchildren. When told that if they kept eating the way they were, those things wouldn't come to pass, they'd be dead first, they finally started changing to a healthier diet.

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5 hours ago, Northtek said:

Recently I witnessed a horror show on a recent tread that was shutdown by the moderators as it quickly descended into chaos. But the questions raised had no solutions. So I am hoping we can have a discussion here that actually finds solutions. Yes there are some. As the truth is climate change is a debate for a reason. But regardless of what side of the argument you stand on, there are real environment concerns that we deal with here in Mexico everyday. Big example is air quality. https://aqicn.org/city/guadalajara/ its currently listed as unhealthy. To put it into perspective, air quality here is the equivalent to smoking 2 packs a day. Can we do anything about it?  not sure, but we can try.

I am hoping we can avoid the problems the last tread had, which is this, this forum has a reputation for personal attacks and a lot of people just want to post negative responses. So before you post, ask yourself this, am I helping or contributing in any way? are these just my own opinion's or do I have any supporting my claims? 

Opinions are welcome, both for or against, if the move the conversation forward. but if you just want  to make a snarky remark, there are a lot of other threads, so feel free to make them there, get it out of your system, then come back.

Ok so lets get into it.

What can we do? Well I think we need to understand the underlying problem with the debate in the first place. In that's how we approach the argument. This is where we need to start. There is a very large component of the debate that is psychological in nature. I was made aware recently that a lot of people are completely unaware or incapable of associating that their action can have negative consequences. This is something we all need to accept. Everything we do has the potential to have negative consequences. 

The other thing that will help us is the theory that we should think globally and act locally. How can we do that? well we need to advocate and educate. The best way to do that is to have discussions like this in an open and free way that encourages unification on ideas and promotes actions that has a positive impact on where we live.

But we need to take small steps, as the situation we are in took generations and it will take probably generations to correct. so I offer the first small step. Air quality here is bad and we can help. It seems here there is a lot of people burning stuff, not exactly sure why, but in my neighborhood, they have been burning the fields nearby. for the last week i have seen clouds of black smoke billowing across the horizon. Also my wife comes home with the inside of her mask blacked with smoke and debris in the air. The reason? well it seems that when they burn the fields, they don't clean it first, as the fields are littered with tires and other garbage. 

Sad part of this is labor here is cheap, had I known this was the practice here I would have volunteered or hired guys to clean the fields first. Its not the answer but it is a start. So i am planning to find out if there is a schedule of the burning and see about organizing a way to get the fields cleaned before hand.

So that is my efforts, any other suggestions?

Burning of the fields after the harvest is to replenish the soil for the next planting season. this has been done for thousands of years.

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3 hours ago, CHILLIN said:

Sorry, I was given this information by an inside source - Ing Homer Simpson

So what is part of your solution Angus?

Start with individual family homes, which equipment you can take with you. Let CFE deal with its electrical gobblers. I am tired of subsidizing them.

oh, CFE has dealt with the gobblers ! ever get the classification of DAC on your bill?  God help you !  HA.

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13 hours ago, bobby brown said:

Burning of the fields after the harvest is to replenish the soil for the next planting season. this has been done for thousands of years.

Yes I can understand that, the problem isn't the burning of the fields, its the fact that afterward I went by for a walk and you can see the old tires and garbage still burning. Sadly I have been to about 32 countries now and Mexico is the first one that I have been to where I asked hey what's that burning over there and was told is was a stream, the water was so polluted, it burned. I laughed at first and thought I didn't hear them correctly and said "lol water doesn't burn", but yes, it was the water.

I have seen some crazy stuff, but that was a first.

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14 hours ago, mudgirl said:

It all starts with education. You won't get Mexicans to stop burning garbage until they are educated as to how it harms themselves and their families.

I had a friend who was a nurse-practitioner in California, and most of his patients were Mexican/American. He said the hardest thing was convincing them to change their diets, when they were suffering from obesity, heart disease and diabetes. He finally started asking them if it was important to them to live to see their children graduate from university or to live long enough to see their grandchildren. When told that if they kept eating the way they were, those things wouldn't come to pass, they'd be dead first, they finally started changing to a healthier diet.

That's exactly what I am hoping for as Rome wasn't built in a day, plus I am sure the locals wont take lightly to a new comer telling them how things should be done. But I am hoping we can advocate and educate in a way that is in keeping a good relationship. Plant the seeds of change as they say.

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I too am optimistic about micro nuclear power. For power generation, yes, but also to power cruise and cargo ships, which now burn bunker fuel which is cheap but very polluting. I could also forsee using these technologies for locomotives and big trucks.

It requires a major push to show these new technologies, introduced in the past years. There is no way a "terrorist" could steal isotopes, and there is no risks if there are crashes. This is a bit of a struggle right now with the accident and links of old technology, but I think the public will come around. Especially in Puerto Vallarta when up to six cruise ships come into the terminal and this greasy cloud descends over the area. They have to leave their engines running because they do not have enough shore power to supply them.

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2 hours ago, CHILLIN said:

I too am optimistic about micro nuclear power. For power generation, yes, but also to power cruise and cargo ships, which now burn bunker fuel which is cheap but very polluting. I could also forsee using these technologies for locomotives and big trucks.

It requires a major push to show these new technologies, introduced in the past years. There is no way a "terrorist" could steal isotopes, and there is no risks if there are crashes. This is a bit of a struggle right now with the accident and links of old technology, but I think the public will come around. Especially in Puerto Vallarta when up to six cruise ships come into the terminal and this greasy cloud descends over the area. They have to leave their engines running because they do not have enough shore power to supply them.

I agree, nuclear power has the most potential as it takes less of a foot print than any other source. The only problem is public fear. Chernobyl, Fukushima, and 3 mile island are the 3 main reasons for the fear, but safety has come along way. 

we need to get past the fear and see where micro nuclear can take us. As nuclear ships would solve the majority of the problems. 

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2 hours ago, RickS said:

Good luck with that seed planting.....

Some times all it takes is starting the conversation. I have spoke to a few locals and getting a good response. Mind you I think it’s because I am starting with, hey, how can I help with this? Or what can I do?

once I suggested that I would pay a couple of guys to walk through and pick out the big garbage, which would cost me maybe $50, the response was more than positive. 
 

its amazing how much goodwill $50 bucks can get. 

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Not really connected to Mexico but GM will no longer sell ICE cars past 2035 and Volvo past 2030. Likewise most if not all car manufacturers have an EV line up. In addition, fuel cell technology is catching on for heavy duty trucks. last year I sold my TSLA stock for a nice profit and bought some shares of NIKOLA motors. I wish I could live another 20 years to see this transition to clean air. I was amazed at the windmill capacity installed in Texas, just sorry they where not winterized..(does any one know why they are painted  white ? seems like they could use a color that blends in with the back ground).

Think about it, in about 20 years from now Auto Zone will go down the same road as Blockbuster (video tape rental business) as the only  thing left for them to sell is tires and turtle wax.

 

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19 hours ago, Northtek said:

once I suggested that I would pay a couple of guys to walk through and pick out the big garbage, which would cost me maybe $50, the response was more than positive. 
 

its amazing how much goodwill $50 bucks can get

So you paid them 1000 pesos to pick up the garbage. It was just a job for them- if you think that made them aware not to throw garbage around in the future, you're pretty naive.

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3 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

So you paid them 1000 pesos to pick up the garbage. It was just a job for them- if you think that made them aware not to throw garbage around in the future, you're pretty naive.

Of course it was just a job for them, but it started the conversation, as they wanted to know why, and that's a start. Even if they did not change, the environment did.

That one less tired burned, one less bag of garbage in the field. Actions are the only thing that makes change, empty words don't. If you show concern through action, people will take notice. 

Plus $50 will make no impact in my life, where $500 pesos will make a difference in theirs. 2 birds, 1 stone, Best money spent. 

So am I naïve, maybe, but I would rather take steps to solve the problem, even if its unsuccessful,  Because its better than doing nothing. As doing nothing is not an option. 

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59 minutes ago, Northtek said:

So am I naïve, maybe, but I would rather take steps to solve the problem, even if its unsuccessful,  Because its better than doing nothing. As doing nothing is not an option. 

It's not that I don't think we should try to raise awareness, I just don't think paying people to remove garbage accomplishes that, although it's good that at least that garbage didn't get burned.

One day I gave an old man who machetes for my neighbor a lift into town when I passed him walking. When he climbed into the passenger seat, he reached down on the floor and said "Your cigarettes are here".

I said it was an empty pack, at which point he asked if it was garbage then, and made a motion to toss it out the window. 

I said, yes it's garbage, but don't throw it out the window. He looked confused. Because I know that these old folks are usually religious, I said "Look around you. At the trees, the sky, the birds. Isn't this a beautiful world God gave us?" 

"Oh, yes," he agreed.

"Everytime you throw your garbage around, Juan, you are disrespecting the beautiful world God gave us."

He looked thoughful and said he had never considered that before.

I don't know if it made a difference in him throwing garbage around, but I hope it did.

 

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2 hours ago, HoneyBee said:

Not really connected to Mexico but GM will no longer sell ICE cars past 2035 and Volvo past 2030. Likewise most if not all car manufacturers have an EV line up. In addition, fuel cell technology is catching on for heavy duty trucks. last year I sold my TSLA stock for a nice profit and bought some shares of NIKOLA motors. I wish I could live another 20 years to see this transition to clean air. I was amazed at the windmill capacity installed in Texas, just sorry they where not winterized..(does any one know why they are painted  white ? seems like they could use a color that blends in with the back ground).

Think about it, in about 20 years from now Auto Zone will go down the same road as Blockbuster (video tape rental business) as the only  thing left for them to sell is tires and turtle wax.

 

Well I hope you live the next 20 years too, I think we will hopefully see so good changes. I am particularly interested in seeing where battery tech will take us, as the new solid state batteries show a lot of promise. 

The only issue I have is that the current polices seemed to be aimed a the consumers and not the real polluters. It seems that we are more concerned with finding some one to blame than we are to educating ourselves to the real issues.  

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18 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

"Everytime you throw your garbage around, Juan, you are disrespecting the beautiful world God gave us."

yes that is a start, but the problem is that yes we can talk to people and yes they will agree. But unfortunately, as ideal as this sounds, it ignores human nature. We can talk or preach as much as we want, but it will only resound to a small few. People are motivated by what helps them immediately, the idea of a better tomorrow will fall on deaf ears of those who are more worried of how to feed their family today. 

Sad truth is, nothing motivates people more than earning money. So if we can solve the problems of tomorrow while solving a problem of today, then why don't we. 

Talk is cheap and if it solved the problem, I am all for it, but we have been talking for decades. so I think its time for more.

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Burning fields and burning garbage has been illegal here for the past couple of years. Often what you think as burning garbage is actually pickers who are gathering copper wire and then burning off the plastic. The fines are a lot more than 500 pesos. If you are seeing tires in the fields you must live in a very remote or poor Colonia because the government has launched many projects to gather old tires because they are a major source of dengue mosquitoes, and mosquitoes in general.

The Mexican goverment is spending hundreds of millions on cleaning polluted waterways. They subsidize it a bit by routinely fining industrial polluters, but not to a level that would have shut them down. There are 17 major industrial polluters on the waterway to El Salto waterfalls. The water is now clear there are there are fish in the water. The next stage is a cleanup of the water runoffs near the Guadalajara land which will need this area for its expansion. Refered to in this article.

http://saudicaves.com/mx/salto/index.html

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6 minutes ago, CHILLIN said:

Burning fields and burning garbage has been illegal here for the past couple of years. Often what you think as burning garbage is actually pickers who are gathering copper wire and then burning off the plastic. The fines are a lot more than 500 pesos. If you are seeing tires in the fields you must live in very remote or poor Colonia because the government has launched many projects to gather old tires because they are a major source of dengue mosquitoes, and mosquitoes in general.

That's good to know, the area we are in is new and its being developed in an area that is mostly fields with old buildings being torn down to be replace with new condos. 

But it is clean and very secure. Its caters to what I would consider the middle class. It has pools and very big parks that cater to every need. In fact its about as close to Canadian living standards that I have seen anywhere in Mexico. Houses are modern in design and very comfortable. Low in energy consumption and is making me question my original plan of building a home here. 

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31 minutes ago, Northtek said:

That's good to know, the area we are in is new and its being developed in an area that is mostly fields with old buildings being torn down to be replace with new condos. 

But it is clean and very secure. Its caters to what I would consider the middle class. It has pools and very big parks that cater to every need. In fact its about as close to Canadian living standards that I have seen anywhere in Mexico. Houses are modern in design and very comfortable. Low in energy consumption and is making me question my original plan of building a home here. 

Mexican middle class is living in a townhouse type setup or decent house about 110 to 170 sq. meters in a middle class area. What you are describing sounds like upper middle class.

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