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Although born in the US, I grew up in Bermuda, a tiny speck if an island (21 sq. miles) in the middle of the Atlantic with the nearest land mass (N. Carolina) about 600 miles away. The land is mostly flat, a few feet above sea level with the highest point at a little over 200 ft. where the towering Gibbs Hill Lighthouse stands. I still have family there and recently asked my brother how they were dealing with the rising sea level. He burst out in uncontrolled laughter and said "yes, we will all soon be huddled on the top of Gibbs Hill under the lighthouse!". As AlongTheWay adroitly puts it above, we should all take a fresh look at these claims since there are many competing interests involved including social and political status, but most importantly our old friend MONEY!!! 

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56 minutes ago, AlongTheWay said:

Some of you argue that the “source” of this list is "bad" (aka: not aligned with your preferred/political point of view) implying thus, that anything FROM that source MUST then be bad/wrong. Or arguing if there were/weren't other, concurrent prognostications that were right. Some have attempted to discredit the articles because the author(s) aren't recognizable (by you) therefore, again, the article can't have validity – thus bad/wrong.

These knee-jerk reaction-posts aren't examples of thoughtful consideration (though they are the most commonplace posting herein), or even reasonable responses. They miss the point(s) entirely, exhibit significant intellectual and analytical short comings, or if you prefer, simply express dogmatic leanings which are threatened by anything contradictive.

Misdirection is a poor but common substitute where/when a valid argument isn't known or available.

The source, CEI, didn't write ANY of the articles. All it did was search them out and put them together. The point isn't “arguing” that the authors of the articles were right or wrong, nor, if the sources quoted by the authors are right or wrong, though history has proven they were completely wrong.

The point is, many, well know people and numerous, well known, accredited and in some cases, “worshiped” newspapers and cable news stations, such as CNN, Fox, The New York Times and Time Magazine, etc., printed (or noted) these articles (often again and again), quoted the sources (giving them credence) not the authors of, and pushed the information into the minds of the masses, of which you are a part.

One of those sources was AL Gore, who's predictions have so far, proven to be complete B.S. (that's not Bachelor of Science). And in his case, it takes little research to discover his economic interests in having a nation and/or the world believing his misrepresentations and falsehoods.

Sources for those articles included: a biologist from Stanford University, a scientist from the National Center for Atmospheric Research, another from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and Columbia University, scientists from Brown University's Department of Geological Sciences, a Professor from University of Michigan, a Deputy Minister of Canada's Environmental Agency, a $537 Million Dollar (1980 dollars - present approximate equivalent today: $1.7 Trillion USD) study ordered by the US Congress (Politicians), A Director of NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies and more...

During some time frames, these reports were about Global Warming, others about Global Cooling. All within a couple of decades! Up? Down? Which is it? Did is change since five years ago?

Fact: Climates Change! Today's meaning of this phrase is something akin to “End of the world” (Sky-is-falling). But that's just the current political redefinition, or application, when in fact, climate change is nature; it is natural and constant since time began and will remain so regardless if you buy an electric car or continuing to burn fossil fuels.

Causes of said change include changes in the Earth's magnetic field, which, in case you aren't up to speed, is happening as we speak. The magnetic North Pole is moving so fast the last few years that the world's maps, which are routinely update every ten years or so (for Magnetic Declination adjustments) had to be updated "early" to avoid possible accidents in the shipping industry and other's for which magnetic navigation is routine.

And if you're still reading, relax, it's true, the climate IS changing! You think something about that is new? Aren't there deserts today which in the past were green lands? Or even underwater? When has “sea level” been static over the eons? Sea level going up? Sea level going down? Yes. It is. Shit happens.

I personally, believe, that man's antics, his (and hers) inclinations to rape, pillage and plunder any and every natural resource; to pollute, disfigure and destroy lands, waterways and oceans, for immediate profits has an affect - it is certainly an additional cause.

But this still misses the point.

And that is, perhaps, that most, if not all, the scary, dreadful, the sky-is-falling sound-bites, 24/7 full color charts and graphics and "science" sound-bites from the same groups of Politicians, Scientists, Experts and "accredited" news sources (all of whom have either/both an axe to grind or an economic interest) – and not just the so-called Republicans sources - (New York Times, Al Gore, Stanford University, University(s) of California, NASA, et al), is nearly all false or contains false implications/data. Live with it.

Further, the fact that most of it is false, doesn't mean there is no bit of truth in the prognostications. If you research what propaganda is, and how and why it work so well, you'd know/learn that the most successful lies have a small measure of truth. More importantly, the more frequently the lie is told, again and again, 24/7, day after day, month after month, the greater the number of people that will believe them. (Trump's Golden Showers in a Moscow hotel?) Including you. At least, those of you who qualify as “people”.

The late, great Doctor, Albert Schwteizer was once asked, "What's wrong with Men (people) today?". He replied, "Men simply don't think". Switch sides! (There are more than one) Join the side that actually uses their minds for something more than gossip and B.S., who choose to consider, to think about what's being said by the so-called “experts”, and whom, have the ability to come to rational conclusions of their own. You might just find you sleep a little better.

Listening to and believing whatever your particular group's Demigod 's are saying, has nothing to do with "thinking", and a lot to do with the premeditated, intentional formation of a belief regardless of any degree of falsehood from someone who does not have your best interests at heart. Refusing to consider there could well be, rational, factual, different points of view, and even, mutually exclusive yet, co-existing truths, you are destined to live the beliefs those Demigods are pushing, and don't for a minute try to think they don't have their own, personal agendas which in the end, are just as harmful to you and the guy you've been arguing with, over the same topics, hours upon hour, day after day, on this web board.

 

Ah, forget all that.  Keep on jumping down the throats of any and everybody else that doesn't agree with you.  Who cares who's actually right?  The LOUDEST and most PROLIFIC voices can nearly always stifle the truth, so, keep up the effort, as certainly at some point, only one voice, one thought, and one belief are all that a community will ever have or need. Eh?

Take Pride! Keep repeating that which has no value and offers no common good, short of heart-burn for someone.  After all, maybe you're just a bunch of old farts with nothing better to do than sit at the computer for hours and hours just waiting for someone to post something that you can argue with, someone you can call names, and generally, just burn time till you die? 

That's a real contribution to helping improve the world!

Very long winded sermon against climate change and not a subtle but psuedo- intellectual put down of those in the "them" group deplored by right wing antics.

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42 minutes ago, AlanMexicali said:

Very long winded sermon against climate change and not a subtle but psuedo- intellectual put down of those in the "them" group deplored by right wing antics

From you, a misrepresentation of what I said (and believe).  I wrote:

"Fact: Climates Change!"

"it's true, the climate IS changing!"

"I personally, believe, that man's antics, ... is certainly an additional cause."

Don't misrepresent what I said, thought it probably makes you feel better, hiding from the truth.  Further, you sadly or ignorently, ignore that I piss on both parties, that I do not side with either's retoric.  Again, a flase claim from you, ment to do nothing more than disparge me personally.

"not-a-subtle put down"  Yes!  I did make a putdown?  Who's trying to be subtle??  By writing your view, you give futher evidence of the small minded, group-think, topic-redirection posts that make up the majority of what's written on this board.

You, as many, don't actually respond with facts, or even with considered words, but rather just use the same bylines which amount to "you don't agree with me so you're just a stupid shit."

Which doesn't measure up to even a "psuedo" intellectual comment.

All this back and forth remains the character of so much of what is written here. My original post simply lists a bunch of news stories, which years later (yes, even 50 years later) can now been seen as complete B.S.

Yet, instead of just looking and thinking, or God forbid, and admitting that this all those stories were turned out to be lies, no, you (and others) find the only things you can do is to disparage me, the reporters that wrote the stories, mention things that have no relevance, all because, you know full well, if all those were lies, that means some of the current climate change might also be lies.  Oh God!  Please say it's not so!

Are you having fun yet?

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Yes isn't interesting that the original piece is a series of documented news stories and statements by experts that have proven incorrect, yet this whole thread addresses everything but the actual existence and validity of the content. 

So I'll ask again, starting with you Alan, skip the ad hom and give us a real rebuttal.

1.  Show us if any of the sources/stories making the original predictions are false, namely they do not exist at all or they misrepresent the prediction.

2.  Show us where the cited predictions have actually occurred contrary to what the piece states in its rebuttal.

BTW, after seeing all those predictions that apparently didn't pan out I am reminded of the fable of the "Boy who cried wolf."  As you may know, the kid ended up getting eaten because when the wolf finally showed up, all his previous fake wolf warnings caused him to lose all his credibility and no one came to his aid.

The parallels here and the lesson for climate alarmists are obvious.

 

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28 minutes ago, AlongTheWay said:

From you, a misrepresentation of what I said (and believe).  I wrote:

"Fact: Climates Change!"

"it's true, the climate IS changing!"

"I personally, believe, that man's antics, ... is certainly an additional cause."

Don't misrepresent what I said, thought it probably makes you feel better, hiding from the truth.  Further, you sadly or ignorently, ignore that I piss on both parties, that I do not side with either's retoric.  Again, a flase claim from you, ment to do nothing more than disparge me personally.

"not-a-subtle put down"  Yes!  I did make a putdown?  Who's trying to be subtle??  By writing your view, you give futher evidence of the small minded, group-think, topic-redirection posts that make up the majority of what's written on this board.

You, as many, don't actually respond with facts, or even with considered words, but rather just use the same bylines which amount to "you don't agree with me so you're just a stupid shit."

Which doesn't measure up to even a "psuedo" intellectual comment.

All this back and forth remains the character of so much of what is written here. My original post simply lists a bunch of news stories, which years later (yes, even 50 years later) can now been seen as complete B.S.

Yet, instead of just looking and thinking, or God forbid, and admitting that this all those stories were turned out to be lies, no, you (and others) find the only things you can do is to disparage me, the reporters that wrote the stories, mention things that have no relevance, all because, you know full well, if all those were lies, that means some of the current climate change might also be lies.  Oh God!  Please say it's not so!

Are you having fun yet?

You are discussing in a bullying sort of way. That is not well tolerated here, many people, including myself, will not read whatever you have to say on this topic or any other you post. That is the way it is. Sorry. Move to somewhere that people might be coherced into your point of view. Stevie Wonder is moving to Ghana - maybe that is a good starting place.

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43 minutes ago, AlongTheWay said:

From you, a misrepresentation of what I said (and believe).  I wrote:

"Fact: Climates Change!"

"it's true, the climate IS changing!"

"I personally, believe, that man's antics, ... is certainly an additional cause."

Don't misrepresent what I said, thought it probably makes you feel better, hiding from the truth.  Further, you sadly or ignorently, ignore that I piss on both parties, that I do not side with either's retoric.  Again, a flase claim from you, ment to do nothing more than disparge me personally.

"not-a-subtle put down"  Yes!  I did make a putdown?  Who's trying to be subtle??  By writing your view, you give futher evidence of the small minded, group-think, topic-redirection posts that make up the majority of what's written on this board.

You, as many, don't actually respond with facts, or even with considered words, but rather just use the same bylines which amount to "you don't agree with me so you're just a stupid shit."

Which doesn't measure up to even a "psuedo" intellectual comment.

All this back and forth remains the character of so much of what is written here. My original post simply lists a bunch of news stories, which years later (yes, even 50 years later) can now been seen as complete B.S.

Yet, instead of just looking and thinking, or God forbid, and admitting that this all those stories were turned out to be lies, no, you (and others) find the only things you can do is to disparage me, the reporters that wrote the stories, mention things that have no relevance, all because, you know full well, if all those were lies, that means some of the current climate change might also be lies.  Oh God!  Please say it's not so!

Are you having fun yet?

Same put down only now personally aimed at me and is obvious to see.

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59 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Yes isn't interesting that the original piece is a series of documented news stories and statements by experts that have proven incorrect, yet this whole thread addresses everything but the actual existence and validity of the content. 

So I'll ask again, starting with you Alan, skip the ad hom and give us a real rebuttal.

1.  Show us if any of the sources/stories making the original predictions are false, namely they do not exist at all or they misrepresent the prediction.

2.  Show us where the cited predictions have actually occurred contrary to what the piece states in its rebuttal.

BTW, after seeing all those predictions that apparently didn't pan out I am reminded of the fable of the "Boy who cried wolf."  As you may know, the kid ended up getting eaten because when the wolf finally showed up, all his previous fake wolf warnings caused him to lose all his credibility and no one came to his aid.

The parallels here and the lesson for climate alarmists are obvious.

 

I don't want to have a heart attack so I will pass, thank you. 😊

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11 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

Poor baby!!!!

I am used to it. It makes me feel "special".

As George Bernard Shaw once said: "Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it."

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To the OP: For starters Al Gore has forgotten more about climate change than you will ever know. He admits that "global warming" was a bad choice of words.

You alluded to one accurate point - follow the money. Bottom line. The extractive industries are behind the climate deniers if you look deep enough. Always.

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I used to be 'on the fence' with regards to climate change, but after a couple of years of 'study' and listening to both sides of the 'argument' I am no longer on that fence. IMO, it is occurring. And yes, of course, the earth has always had shifts in the climate otherwise we would not talk about the 'ice age' or the opposite. 

The problem at the moment is that the RATE of change is what is alarming. It didn't just start a couple of years ago but the rate is not up for conjecture.  And I don't think that there is a parallel in recorded history.

And it has also been my observation that the 'deniers' are generally of two ilks: they 'come from' those who have some sort of vested interest in big business or in the petroleum spectrum.... either financially or taxes or jobs.  And they seem to come predominately from those who align themselves with the Republican Party. That's not intended to be a knock of the Republican Party but merely an observation. 

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Saying climate change is occurring is like saying the sun comes up every morning.  It's a given at least until it isn't.  Read a really good apocalyptic Sci Fi story on the latter years ago.  Scary.

Saying one can deal with it by signing treaties where the world's greatest polluters are allowed to pollute at will for the next 9 years, one of whom BTW is now building the world's largest coal fired power plant and cranking out the most cars of any country, really calls into question the rationality of the adherents of same.  It's like trying to put out a fire that two people are throwing gasoline on by sanctioning the guy with the teaspoon while ignoring the guy with the bucket. 

And Alan, I'm sorry that the strain of backing up your position on the subject reference is so stressful it would cause a heart attack.  Maybe some of that Tequila medication Angus suggested is in order... :D 

Is the real problem here the adherents of this still unproven notion hate to be reminded of how often they have been wrong in their apocalyptic predictions?  We had all better hope you are just wrong because if you are right by the time it happens everyone will have ignored the real warning because of all the false ones.    

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18 hours ago, CHILLIN said:

You are discussing in a bullying sort of way. That is not well tolerated here, many people, including myself, will not read whatever you have to say on this topic or any other you post. That is the way it is. Sorry. Move to somewhere that people might be coherced into your point of view. Stevie Wonder is moving to Ghana - maybe that is a good starting place.


A bullying sort of way?  I guess you don't have a mirror to look in?

You're bullying at me telling me to go away.  You are bullying me with your words and intent.

Why is it that you can't offer any facts to prove your point?  Why is it that you and others, have to attack me, instead of providing some proof to support your beliefs??  You don't have any proof?

Or how about this attempt to again, put me down personally, and which still doesn't offer any actual, supportive facts to support their position?

"Al Gore has forgotten more about climate change than you will ever know."

Such is just stupid.  I haven't claimed to know anything about Climate Change, except a little of what history has to offer.  AL Gore made claims of disaster, none of which has come true?  Can you prove this to be inaccurate or false?

Each of you who've tried to discredit me, have ignored my written acknowledgement of, and belief in, Climate Change.  Instead, you've attacked the journalist's who wrote the articles quoting the "experts", and you ignore that the very same newspapers who've published those past articles, continue to publish more of the same! 

Doesn't anybody actually THINK?  Are you completely unable to admit, simply admit, those things didn't take place?  Why would that be?

They were printed in established papers, spoken by experts supporting what appears to be your "cause" and they were wrong.  Admit it.  Then move on!

This doesn't make the whole Climate Change issue wrong, just those specific precognitions!  Get a life!  In a war, you may lose a few battles, fighting for your cause, but those losses don't mean you'll lose the war.

Grow up and have the courage, if not humility, to admit, many forecasts related to disastrous events were simply wrong.

Until you can do that, they only people who will listen to you are those just like you.  Want to make a difference?  What to help change the world?

Start dealing honestly with facts and admit falsehoods.  Then people will listen.

What a great world you'd create by attacking and trampling down any voice that doesn't agree with you, where there can be no peaceful discussion, only hate and disrespect.

Which is most of what gets posted on this board, which is why there are so few gringos who bother to read or post here.  Just a sad little "click" who've nothing better to do.

Doessn't matter the topic, Climate Change, Trump, Clinton, Biden, same thing, time after time.


Pitiful.

 

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14 hours ago, RickS said:

And it has also been my observation that the 'deniers' are generally of two ilks: they 'come from' those who have some sort of vested interest in big business or in the petroleum spectrum.... either financially or taxes or jobs.

There is certainly truth in this!  But, it's not just the deniers, true of people both against, and for. 

Having a vested interest is pretty much the only rule of law in our modern world.  People, including many who work for the government in career postions, politicians, ALL Lobbists, most likely all corporations - they all want to profit in some way or another, without regard to the well being or welfare of the rest of the people or world.

That's partly way so many prescribed "actions" to combat problems end up serving just a minority, at the cost of the majority.

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1 hour ago, AlongTheWay said:


A bullying sort of way?  I guess you don't have a mirror to look in?

You're bullying at me telling me to go away.  You are bullying me with your words and intent.

Why is it that you can't offer any facts to prove your point?  Why is it that you and others, have to attack me, instead of providing some proof to support your beliefs??  You don't have any proof?

Or how about this attempt to again, put me down personally, and which still doesn't offer any actual, supportive facts to support their position?

"Al Gore has forgotten more about climate change than you will ever know."

Such is just stupid.  I haven't claimed to know anything about Climate Change, except a little of what history has to offer.  AL Gore made claims of disaster, none of which has come true?  Can you prove this to be inaccurate or false?

Each of you who've tried to discredit me, have ignored my written acknowledgement of, and belief in, Climate Change.  Instead, you've attacked the journalist's who wrote the articles quoting the "experts", and you ignore that the very same newspapers who've published those past articles, continue to publish more of the same! 

Doesn't anybody actually THINK?  Are you completely unable to admit, simply admit, those things didn't take place?  Why would that be?

They were printed in established papers, spoken by experts supporting what appears to be your "cause" and they were wrong.  Admit it.  Then move on!

This doesn't make the whole Climate Change issue wrong, just those specific precognitions!  Get a life!  In a war, you may lose a few battles, fighting for your cause, but those losses don't mean you'll lose the war.

Grow up and have the courage, if not humility, to admit, many forecasts related to disastrous events were simply wrong.

Until you can do that, they only people who will listen to you are those just like you.  Want to make a difference?  What to help change the world?

Start dealing honestly with facts and admit falsehoods.  Then people will listen.

What a great world you'd create by attacking and trampling down any voice that doesn't agree with you, where there can be no peaceful discussion, only hate and disrespect.

Which is most of what gets posted on this board, which is why there are so few gringos who bother to read or post here.  Just a sad little "click" who've nothing better to do.

Doessn't matter the topic, Climate Change, Trump, Clinton, Biden, same thing, time after time.


Pitiful.

 

Upped your bullying yet to another level and demand respect from those you vehemently are putting down. What a joke! Us get a life, indeed.

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Lol This is a lively thread, but is also nice to see the various view points. The problem with sources is this, you can get 6 scientist to agree with anything, but you can also find 6 others that will prove it false. The biggest problem isn't what they agree on or disagree on, its actually what they are not even allowed to talk about.

For example, and I remember this clearly, the media attacked anyone that drove an SUV or trucks as horrible people, because "don't they know what they do to the environment" mean while 1 cargo container produces the same air pollution as 50 million cars at once. 

https://www.industrytap.com/worlds-15-biggest-ships-create-more-pollution-than-all-the-cars-in-the-world/8182

truthfully, I think this really speaks to mans hubris, in thinking we actually make any difference at all, because I believe deep down, that if nature view us as a threat, it would shake us off like fleas.

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oh, fun fact, on the average, a cruse ship burns 1 gallon of diesel every inch. Plus my F150 gets an average if 12L per 100 kilometers and my friends Cadillac of the same year burns through 17L per 100 Kilometers. Go figure. and no my truck is not Eco boost, its a standard V8. 

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5 hours ago, AlongTheWay said:


A bullying sort of way?  I guess you don't have a mirror to look in?

You're bullying at me telling me to go away.  You are bullying me with your words and intent.

Why is it that you can't offer any facts to prove your point?  Why is it that you and others, have to attack me, instead of providing some proof to support your beliefs??  You don't have any proof?

Or how about this attempt to again, put me down personally, and which still doesn't offer any actual, supportive facts to support their position?

"Al Gore has forgotten more about climate change than you will ever know."

Such is just stupid.  I haven't claimed to know anything about Climate Change, except a little of what history has to offer.  AL Gore made claims of disaster, none of which has come true?  Can you prove this to be inaccurate or false?

Each of you who've tried to discredit me, have ignored my written acknowledgement of, and belief in, Climate Change.  Instead, you've attacked the journalist's who wrote the articles quoting the "experts", and you ignore that the very same newspapers who've published those past articles, continue to publish more of the same! 

Doesn't anybody actually THINK?  Are you completely unable to admit, simply admit, those things didn't take place?  Why would that be?

They were printed in established papers, spoken by experts supporting what appears to be your "cause" and they were wrong.  Admit it.  Then move on!

This doesn't make the whole Climate Change issue wrong, just those specific precognitions!  Get a life!  In a war, you may lose a few battles, fighting for your cause, but those losses don't mean you'll lose the war.

Grow up and have the courage, if not humility, to admit, many forecasts related to disastrous events were simply wrong.

Until you can do that, they only people who will listen to you are those just like you.  Want to make a difference?  What to help change the world?

Start dealing honestly with facts and admit falsehoods.  Then people will listen.

What a great world you'd create by attacking and trampling down any voice that doesn't agree with you, where there can be no peaceful discussion, only hate and disrespect.

Which is most of what gets posted on this board, which is why there are so few gringos who bother to read or post here.  Just a sad little "click" who've nothing better to do.

Doessn't matter the topic, Climate Change, Trump, Clinton, Biden, same thing, time after time.


Pitiful.

 

YAWN!!!   What a bunch of snooze material..............

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29 minutes ago, alex45920 said:

Pitiful indeed! Let me suggest you read this article from NASA to better inform yourself about climatic cycles, which you pretend to understand.

https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2949/why-milankovitch-orbital-cycles-cant-explain-earths-current-warming/

The OP might reject anything not from his ilk. 

Maybe he is open minded as claimed by himself.

We will have to wait and see.

Good scouting job. IMO

 

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