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3 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

There are all kinds of personal realities. One person grows up somewhere rough, with unattentive parents and has a view of the world that is quite different from another person who grew up in a peaceful suburban neighborhood with loving parents. One sees the world as a hostile place where you always have to watch your back, the other sees it as full of opportunity where most people are good.

But personal realities aren't the same as believing something is true of which there is no proof whatsoever and insisting on foisting those beliefs on others.

I agree with the first part of your analogy but not the second. History has proven this is not true. I have just finished reading a book titled "Lessons From Fallen Civilizations", and it is an eye opener. We are now well on the way to learn some very important and harsh lessons!!! 

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Sorry there is nothing in my post that says any of that.  What I am trying to get across is the reality of where we live.  Mexico is NOT going to handle covid in a first world manner.  Mexicans DO NOT

What is it about a worldwide pandemic that you do not understand?    

Can't finish the 8th grade if you're dead or dying from remorse for infecting some other loved member of the family... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/mexico-s-post-holiday-covid-surge-bring

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Mudgirl you do understand that science is not nor has it ever been based on reality or on any set of hard unprovable facts.  Science is just our current understanding of things at any given time or place.  Of course science should be studied, followed, scrutinized, and respected.  In the real reality science is not always right. Science is constantly changing on a daily basis.  Not very long ago science taught that when a person was sick it was necessary to bleed the patient to release the toxins that were maligning him or her.  Not long ago US scientists claimed the wearing of face masks was not necessary to stop the spread of Covid-19.  A month later they reversed on that statement.  My point is that science is constantly changing as the more we learn.  I find it very troubling when the scientific establishment tries to silence and shame any divergent opinion from the scientific community just because it differs from what the establishment believes.  What the establishment believes is often times proven wrong and is constantly changing regardless.  It does not help anybody for them to try silence any scientific voice that differs in opinion.

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1 hour ago, AndyPanda said:

Real reality. Non-reality. Factual reality. A "right" to your own belief. Science is not fact. I can't even.

You missed AMLO's favorite: I have other data.

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16 hours ago, dichosalocura said:

Mudgirl you do understand that science is not nor has it ever been based on reality or on any set of hard unprovable facts.  Science is just our current understanding of things at any given time or place.  Of course science should be studied, followed, scrutinized, and respected.  In the real reality science is not always right. Science is constantly changing on a daily basis.  Not very long ago science taught that when a person was sick it was necessary to bleed the patient to release the toxins that were maligning him or her.  Not long ago US scientists claimed the wearing of face masks was not necessary to stop the spread of Covid-19.  A month later they reversed on that statement.  My point is that science is constantly changing as the more we learn.  I find it very troubling when the scientific establishment tries to silence and shame any divergent opinion from the scientific community just because it differs from what the establishment believes.  What the establishment believes is often times proven wrong and is constantly changing regardless.  It does not help anybody for them to try silence any scientific voice that differs in opinion.

Lies are lies and very easy to detect if you are objective and not subjective [ beliefs instead of knowledge ].

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8 minutes ago, AlanMexicali said:

Lies are lies and very easy to detect if you are objective and not subjective [ beliefs instead of knowledge ].

There have been many detected (and observed) "lies" over millennium that turned out to be the truth!!!  

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31 minutes ago, AlanMexicali said:

Lies are lies and very easy to detect if you are objective and not subjective [ beliefs instead of knowledge ].

 

18 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

There have been many detected (and observed) "lies" over millennium that turned out to be the truth!!!  

 

Let me think about it for awhile.

 

FB_IMG_1613418986645.jpg

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17 hours ago, dichosalocura said:

It does not help anybody for them to try silence any scientific voice that differs in opinion.

Obviously what I had to say and the article I posted the link to went right over your and a bunch of other posters' heads.

Neither I nor that article was advocating silencing anyone's voice. It was about the danger in letting one's "beliefs" determine their actions, if those beliefs cause harm to others.

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2 hours ago, AlanMexicali said:

Lies are lies and very easy to detect if you are objective and not subjective [ beliefs instead of knowledge ].

 

1 hour ago, gringohombre said:

There have been many detected (and observed) "lies" over millennium that turned out to be the truth!!!  

 

 

screen-shot-2017-05-22-at-6-28-04-am.png

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Mudgirl, i made no reference to the article you posted and no, it did not go over my head.  I was just talking about the countless number of doctors and scientists around the world whom for just having a different take on Covid or whom had different opinions on how to deal with this pandemic have mostly been ridiculed and ostracized from the scientific community just for having a different opinion.  Of course I believe in and follow science but I also understand that science is always changing.  So what they call facts one day might not be facts tomorrow.  Another example is yesterday I was reading an article talking about the explosion of ADHD in children across America.  Families with children who have been quarantining together for the past year and only have access to virtual learning are finding that their kids are hyperactive.  So, they are taking them by the thousands to psychiatrists and having them placed on ritalin.  Now I don't think it's very good science to put small children on drugs to dope them up just because they are driving their parents crazy for just being stuck in the house too long.  But science says its totally ok to dope up hyperactive kids, get them hooked on pills for life.

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57 minutes ago, dichosalocura said:

But science says its totally ok to dope up hyperactive kids, get them hooked on pills for life.

Well, your example isn't a particularly great one, because kids bouncing off the walls due to being cooped up at home is completely different from ADHD, which is an actual difference in brain chemistry that a child is born with.

A doctor prescribing ritalin-like medications for children who are simply bored and not getting enough exercise, or being fed sugar laden foods, is unethical, for sure.

One of my granddaughters is severely ADHD and so I've learned quite a bit about it, having been very skeptical about it in the past. She has always been a handful since she was a baby, and driven my daughter and son-in-law to distraction, trying all sorts of different approaches, none of which worked, because people with ADHD actually have brains which function differently from so-called normal people. It was only after one of her teachers when she was 12 said she'd like to have my granddaughter assessed, that the ADHD was identified. Because she was no longer a little kid, it was her choice whether to take medication( which is non-addictive and completely eliminated from the body in 8 hours) or not. She chose to take it on school days, as it helped her focus on her work and stop being a behavior problem in the classroom. She didn't take it on weekends, and now she is 16, and chooses not to take it at all. She has had a counselor, an adult who also has ADHD, who has given her insight into the condition, and skills for dealing with it, but she will always have to live with it.

Unlike normal kids, getting lots of exercise, limiting screentime, and changes in diet have no affect on ADHD, unfortunately. And medication is sometimes useful, just as people with epilepsy, heart disease, and other conditions take medication to manage their medical issues.

But of course a parent self-diagnosing their child as having ADHD is stupid, as is giving medication for it if all the child is doing is being a normal active child.

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3 hours ago, gringohombre said:

WHAAAAT????

  A falsehood is when somebody says something that they believe to be true but it later turns out to be false. A lie is when somebody intentionally presents something that is false as the truth.

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10 hours ago, happyjillin said:

I  am musing over who or what is a muse to amuse myself.-SNORK!

pedro kertesz

You people are a hoot and very entertaining,especially since you think you're all right in all different directions- jajajajaja and SNORK!

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2 hours ago, AlanMexicali said:

  A falsehood is when somebody says something that they believe to be true but it later turns out to be false. A lie is when somebody intentionally presents something that is false as the truth.

How about a truth that is called a lie (and the truthteller is convicted or even killed) that is later to be proven true??? I am not only talking about crimes but in science, astrology or even in the theory of evolution...I could go on.....

This all started when you said "Lies are lies and very easy to detect if you are objective and not subjective [ beliefs instead of knowledge ]." And someone else said "a shift in attitude where beliefs based upon non-reality are no longer afforded respect" and I asked whose reality were they talking about?  

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10 hours ago, gringohombre said:

How about a truth that is called a lie (and the truthteller is convicted or even killed) that is later to be proven true??? I am not only talking about crimes but in science, astrology or even in the theory of evolution...I could go on.....

This all started when you said "Lies are lies and very easy to detect if you are objective and not subjective [ beliefs instead of knowledge ]." And someone else said "a shift in attitude where beliefs based upon non-reality are no longer afforded respect" and I asked whose reality were they talking about?  

Circular arguments go nowhere.

You already have it figured out and so do I. Empirical evidence compared to beliefs can never join hands in mutual agreement.

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