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Panic Button Facts – January 15, 2021 - Correcting earlier inaccurate reports


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9 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Some of you seem to be forgetting that we are living in Mexico. These directives aren't aimed at inconveniencing retired gringos. Most elderly Mexicans have plenty of family around who can go shopping for them. The aim is to keep their elders from dying. 85% of COVID patients in Mexico who are put on ventilators end up in the morgue.

 Please furnish source for your 85% statistic.  

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Why all this debating?. The governor has asked us all to follow his guidelines in order to save lives and not over burden the healthcare system here. Same as every other country around the world. Can

Supermarkets are denying entry to people over 60.  Looks like they need to try and get a fake ID saying they are 58.  How they will eat will be hard. Why don't they just ban fat people from grocery st

Panic Button Facts – January 15, 2021 Early rumors and news sources cites pending closures and restrictions for businesses and public life.  News outlets published WITHOUT reading the actual publ

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52 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

 Please furnish source for your 85% statistic.  

I am not sure about the 85% number BUT....Assuming you have not been in hibernation for 18 months....and  you read the USA papers or watched the news etc,........ it does not seem that long ago how the various States were crying out for ventilators......... only to find that sadly many of the patients were actually dying from the intervention procedure and many doctors were feeling tremendous guilt that the ventilator was not going to be the magic pill.

Sorry I do not have any certified numbers , but I bet there are thousands  of ventilators now stored in warehouses and many doctors feeling  the impact of psychological stress cause by the loss of life...I am not trying to convince you but sharing my opinion 

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Why all this debating?. The governor has asked us all to follow his guidelines in order to save lives and not over burden the healthcare system here. Same as every other country around the world. Can you please stop with all the bickering and opinions, it really doesn't matter what any of thinks....the virus is here, it's spreading quickly and there is no immediate fix in the near future. We are all very fortunate to be retired and don't have to endure going out to work, having to work from home, having to homeschool children. Please show a little maturity and stop the nonsense.  Be kind to yourself and to others who might just be having a very hard time with all this.....

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Guiness said:

Why all this debating?. The governor has asked us all to follow his guidelines in order to save lives and not over burden the healthcare system here. Same as every other country around the world. Can you please stop with all the bickering and opinions, it really doesn't matter what any of thinks....the virus is here, it's spreading quickly and there is no immediate fix in the near future. We are all very fortunate to be retired and don't have to endure going out to work, having to work from home, having to homeschool children. Please show a little maturity and stop the nonsense.  Be kind to yourself and to others who might just be having a very hard time with all this.....

 

 

Actually not the same as every country around the world.

While it might slow the spread it won't stop the spread. It didn't work the last 3 times he tried it and it won't work this time to stop the spread. 

And you too are now debating.  "DO AS I SAY" prevails in this crisis

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Just an observation, it is my understanding the seniors living in multigenerational extended family households are tending to get covid from younger family members.  That being the case, confining them to their homes where the exposure risk is greatest doesn't feel like a very good control strategy.

I suspect one of the reasons older expats here have had almost no cases is they don't live in these types of family situations.  Also the expat community is very aware of the more effective control strategies like mask wearing around others and social distancing.

I'm told there is a move afoot to get an amparo against the over 60 lockdown and blocking from shopping as this appears to clearly violate the First Amendment to the Mexican Constitution which specifically prohibits discrimination based on age.

Finally, another observation, given that Mexicans were not willing to give up holiday gatherings with family and others I wonder if the current spike is related to the holiday behavior and would have tended to abate with the previous measures.

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3 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Just an observation, it is my understanding the seniors living in multigenerational extended family households are tending to get covid from younger family members.  That being the case, confining them to their homes where the exposure risk is greatest doesn't feel like a very good control strategy.

I suspect one of the reasons older expats here have had almost no cases is they don't live in these types of family situations.  Also the expat community is very aware of the more effective control strategies like mask wearing around others and social distancing.

I'm told there is a move afoot to get an amparo against the over 60 lockdown and blocking from shopping as this appears to clearly violate the First Amendment to the Mexican Constitution.

Finally, another observation, given that Mexicans were not willing to give up holiday gatherings with family and others I wonder if the current spike is related to the holiday behavior and would have tended to abate with the previous measures.

You are probably correct regarding the current spike being the result of Christmas & New Years gatherings.

A study published in the journal Indoor Air in October looked at 318 outbreaks in China in which three or more cases were identified. The researchers divided the outbreaks into six categories: homes, transport, food, entertainment, shopping, and other—and they found people were 19 times more likely to get the virus at home. Similarly, research out of the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill determined that your home is the most common place for COVID-19 transmission.

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On 1/16/2021 at 7:53 AM, Mainecoons said:

Sounds like anyone over 60 is basically in house arrest.  Is this legal under the Mexican Constitution, Spencer?

I didn't see anything that prohibits seniors from going out. Just prohibits businesses from letting them in. Did I read that right?

BTW the Oxxo in La Canacinta had an employee at the door yesterday who stopped me from going in.

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Actually  you read it wrong.  The government of Jalisco has declared   " las personas mayores de 60 años deben permanecer en casa y la responsabilidad individual será clave"

(People over 60 should stay home and individual responsibility will be key)

 

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16 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

I didn't see anything that prohibits seniors from going out. Just prohibits businesses from letting them in. Did I read that right?

BTW the Oxxo in La Canacinta had an employee at the door yesterday who stopped me from going in.

Did he ask your age?  

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23 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

Actually  you read it wrong.  The government of Jalisco has declared   " las personas mayores de 60 años deben permanecer en casa y la responsabilidad individual será clave"

(People over 60 should stay home and individual responsibility will be key)

 

Some people are translating "deben" as MUST as opposed to should.  I did some searching on that and they are often used interchangeably.   

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Isn't slowing the spread a good idea, because you're not going to stop the spread. Slowing the spread until a vaccine is readily available seems the only alternative.

....................................................................................

It's a great idea. The studies tell us that to do so we need to wear a mask, wash your hands, maintain social distancing, avoid crowded spaces and large gatherings

For months we have heard "follow the science"  The science does not tell us closing a tennis court, a park, a malecon will do anything to slow the spread. It didn't work the  last 3 times, it won't work this time. What will work is

wear a mask ( correctly and don't touch it except the ear straps to remove it ) ,wash your hands, maintain social distancing, avoid crowded spaces and large gatherings.  

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A couple of hours ago I had to go to Chapala Simalies for meds.....Wow the town is full of visitors (?) plus two tourist buses..no place to park....and many of these people were looking "over 60" the favorite restaurants at the east end of the malacon had people lining up...So go figure , how are the locals going to beat the Pandemic with hordes of visitors coming into town??

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27 minutes ago, lakeside7 said:

A couple of hours ago I had to go to Chapala Simalies for meds.....Wow the town is full of visitors (?) plus two tourist buses..no place to park....and many of these people were looking "over 60" the favorite restaurants at the east end of the malacon had people lining up...So go figure , how are the locals going to beat the Pandemic with hordes of visitors coming into town??

simple   beat it by wear a mask ( correctly and don't touch it except the ear straps to remove it ) ,wash your hands, maintain social distancing, avoid crowded spaces and large gatherings.  

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7 hours ago, Guiness said:

Why all this debating?. The governor has asked us all to follow his guidelines in order to save lives and not over burden the healthcare system here. Same as every other country around the world. Can you please stop with all the bickering and opinions, it really doesn't matter what any of thinks....the virus is here, it's spreading quickly and there is no immediate fix in the near future. We are all very fortunate to be retired and don't have to endure going out to work, having to work from home, having to homeschool children. Please show a little maturity and stop the nonsense.  Be kind to yourself and to others who might just be having a very hard time with all this.....

 

 

Why? Because the Governor's attempts are a bit misguided.

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The malecón is all cordoned off but the tourist market along the malecón is jam packed with people.  I understand what they are trying to do to not hurt the merchants but at the same time discourage large numbers of tourists but al fin de cuentas it makes no sense at all to do it this way.  The plazas and malecones, al aire libre, are the safest places to be during this pandemic.  They should keep them open.  They are forcing people to congregate in their small crowed homes and party there with poor little grandma hiding out in the back room.  It makes no sense.

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39 minutes ago, cedros said:

Why? Because the Governor's attempts are a bit misguided.

He is the governor and it is his responsibility — whether you think he is misguided or not. You may think you are (or actually be) smarter or better educated or more informed or anything else you care to think about yourself. You are not the governor and he is.

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2 minutes ago, Xena said:

He is the governor and it is his responsibility — whether you think he is misguided or not. You may think you are (or actually be) smarter or better educated or more informed or anything else you care to think about yourself. You are not the governor and he is.

Of course, but he IS going about it the wrong way. He has to get the message.

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4 minutes ago, cedros said:

Of course, but he IS going about it the wrong way. He has to get the message.

You think no one else has told him he is wrong? My guess is he responds the way you do when someone tells you that you are wrong.

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55 minutes ago, Xena said:

You think no one else has told him he is wrong? My guess is he responds the way you do when someone tells you that you are wrong.

I have no idea and you probably don't either. When somone tells me I am wrong I accept it if there is evidence.

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I think Alfaro feels like he has to do something.  Its like he is damned if he combats the virus and damned if he doesn't.  But many of the new norms do not make a lot of sense.  And can someone please explain to me the discrimination they have against children that rarely even get sick with the virus?  They are not allowed to enter into most businesses or even the tourist market on the malecón.  It makes no sense.  The over 60 ban makes more sense than the under 12 ban.  But both are wrong for obvious reasons.

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47 minutes ago, dichosalocura said:

And can someone please explain to me the discrimination they have against children that rarely even get sick with the virus? 

Children don't live alone, they have families.

Here's what my oldest daughter in Toronto told my 14 year old granddaughter back in March when she and her husband were already working from home and isolating and the 14 year old was sneaking out of the house to go hang out with her friends:

"Look, if you get this virus, you probably won't get very sick, you might not even show any symptoms. But if you bring this virus into our home, your father and I could die."

Additionally, children aren't going to be diligent about washing their hands, they don't have consciousness to keep their hands off things out in public that could be contaminated, they put their hands on their faces, in their mouths, pick their noses. They constantly touch and fuss with their masks when they wear them. They aren't being "discriminated against". 

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I only asked this because we have children here in Chapala.  So I guess they feel that children are more likely to pass the virus to others.  I still think this is stinkin thinkin and just plain stupid.  Anybody has equal opportunity to spread this virus.  Children should not be discriminated against neither should the elderly.  That is why so many people are disregarding the sanitary norms.  Most of them are not logical nor feasable.

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45 minutes ago, dichosalocura said:

Children should not be discriminated against neither should the elderly. 

There are many laws which are put into place based on the statistics. Young men have the highest rate of vehicle accidents, therefore their car insurance rates are the highest of any demographic. Plenty of young men are careful, considerate drivers but they are still "discriminated against" in this way.

Children in the US and Canada have to be in car seats, the type of car seat dependent on their weight. If they aren't and the police see that, the driver will be fined. Is it discriminating that the 3 year old can't simply wear a seat belt like the adults and their older siblings?

What I do think is absurd is to mandate all this pandemic stuff, yet allow tourists and weekenders to travel and stroll around for what are obviously non-essential reasons. But that is up to local officials to enforce. The governor can make the rules, whether you think he is doing it for the common good or not, but he can't be everywhere making sure they are followed.

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