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1 hour ago, RickS said:

Just as an aside.... "what" causes the lirio to 'suddenly' appear in large quantities in the lake?  Where did/do they come from.  I had always heard, possibly mistakenly, that it was a 'sure sign that they were letting water out of an upstream dam'. 

The Rio Lerma is a very slow flowing river because it passes through very flat land.  It is clogged with lirio and water lettuce for miles upstream.  Normally the current isn't fast enough to push vegetation into the lake. Also there is a lot of vegetation packed on the shallow eastern shore which is basically a marsh. In the summer the lake level rises thus freeing the vegetation from the marsh. There is more water in the river hence more current pushing vegetation into the lake. The winds come from the east pushing all of this into the lake. 

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29 minutes ago, AndyPanda said:

Wow, I'm surprised. For years we've been told it happens when the dam gets too full and they release the water.

You have been told by people who have never traveled through the farmland to the east of lake Chapala all the way to Salamanca. 

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33 minutes ago, AndyPanda said:

I thought I was told by people like Dr. Stong. I must have misunderstood.

Or possibly Dr. Strong was repeating what he heard without actually knowing. 

Just look at a map.

It's flat agricultural land. To make a lake you would need a massive engineering project to raise dikes all around and then pump water in.  

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Are you going to believe me or your LYING EYES??? Over 45 years visiting here and seeing record flooding and record drought and now living full time almost 13 years and walking daily on the lakefront...THIS IS A VERY NORMAL YEAR!!!

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1 minute ago, gringohombre said:

Are you going to believe me or your LYING EYES??? Over 45 years visiting here and seeing record flooding and record drought and now living full time almost 13 years and walking daily on the lakefront...THIS IS A VERY NORMAL YEAR!!!

Never thought I’d be saying this, but I agree with gringohombre. I was gobsmacked by the ignorance and arrogance of mostlylost accusing Dr. Strong of just repeating what he hears about the lake “without really knowing.” This from a person who knows more than Dr. Strong because he has looked at maps! I honestly don’t know whether to laugh or cry. 

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3 hours ago, Mostlylost said:

Or possibly Dr. Strong was repeating what he heard without actually knowing. 

Just look at a map.

It's flat agricultural land. To make a lake you would need a massive engineering project to raise dikes all around and then pump water in.  

Well, it's Dr. Todd STONG, and he knows a lot more about Lake Chapala than I do. In fact, a lot more about inland waters around the world than I could ever imagine.

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12 hours ago, Xena said:

Never thought I’d be saying this, but I agree with gringohombre. I was gobsmacked by the ignorance and arrogance of mostlylost accusing Dr. Strong of just repeating what he hears about the lake “without really knowing.” This from a person who knows more than Dr. Strong because he has looked at maps! I honestly don’t know whether to laugh or cry. 

Ok. Fine. Where are the mystery lakes & dams?  Name a town or location.  

Sorry but there is only one very small dam at Ibarra what is behind it is like a wide river. If Dr. Strong says there are more he is wrong. 

I didn't say I knew from a map. I said you can look a a map.

I have driven through that area from here to La Piedad more than once in the last 40 years. No other lakes or dams period.

The vegetation is in marshes on the eastern shore of the lake. Reeds, lirio, water lettuce. When the lake level rises it breaks free and winds from the east push it westward. 

 

Manuel Cuesta Gallardo, one of the richest men of his day. He saw that the eastern end of the lake was shallow, marshy, and rich in silt deposited by the Lerma River.  Manuel persuaded President Porfirio Díaz to grant him a license to drain one third of Lake Chapala and sell the land for agriculture. Manuel built his dike across the lake from Jamay on the north shore to La Palma on the south shore, and also built raised dikes along each side of the Lerma River and its tributary the Duero River. The dike, which is 24.14 kilometers long altogether, was built between 1906 and 1909 Water was pumped out of the marshy areas and the land was sold.  

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1 hour ago, Mostlylost said:

Ok. Fine. Where are the mystery lakes & dams?  Name a town or location.  

Sorry but there is only one very small dam at Ibarra what is behind it is like a wide river. If Dr. Strong says there are more he is wrong. 

I didn't say I knew from a map. I said you can look a a map.

I have driven through that area from here to La Piedad more than once in the last 40 years. No other lakes or dams period.

The vegetation is in marshes on the eastern shore of the lake. Reeds, lirio, water lettuce. When the lake level rises it breaks free and winds from the east push it westward. 

 

Manuel Cuesta Gallardo, one of the richest men of his day. He saw that the eastern end of the lake was shallow, marshy, and rich in silt deposited by the Lerma River.  Manuel persuaded President Porfirio Díaz to grant him a license to drain one third of Lake Chapala and sell the land for agriculture. Manuel built his dike across the lake from Jamay on the north shore to La Palma on the south shore, and also built raised dikes along each side of the Lerma River and its tributary the Duero River. The dike, which is 24.14 kilometers long altogether, was built between 1906 and 1909 Water was pumped out of the marshy areas and the land was sold.  

Dumping another boatload of verbiage does not make you more learned about the lake than Dr. Todd Strong. Neither does it make you less ignorant or arrogant when you accuse Dr. Strong of not really knowing what he is talking about. I am sure this diversionary tactic has served you well (otherwise you would not still be using it) but it does not work here.

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mostlylost used to be a nice guy for along time. he has been overtaken by the cesspool this bored has become. now like a few others on here he is just lost. i understand. i two have suffred the same fate on more than one occasio

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35 minutes ago, Upfront said:

mostlylost used to be a nice guy for along time. he has been overtaken by the cesspool this bored has become. now like a few others on here he is just lost. i understand. i two have suffred the same fate on more than one occasio

Then stop splashing around with the other turds. 

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5 hours ago, Xena said:

Dumping another boatload of verbiage does not make you more learned about the lake than Dr. Todd Strong. Neither does it make you less ignorant or arrogant when you accuse Dr. Strong of not really knowing what he is talking about. I am sure this diversionary tactic has served you well (otherwise you would not still be using it) but it does not work here.

Just because you have DR. in front of your name does not make you faultless nor correct all the time. Nor does it make him more learned than me on this subject.  He didn't learn about Chapala in university. 

I have driven on the dike south from Jamay to the river and seen the acres of marsh full of reeds, lirio, and water lettuce. There are many canals full of vegetation in the area. All this is pushed into the lake when the water level rises and the winds blow.  You can easily see some of this if you go the waterfront park in Jamay.

Again name the location of one other dam than the small dam (really a weir) at Ibarra. THERE ARE NONE. The vegetation is in  the river and the eastern marshes.

PS  Sorry you don't like information about the history of the lake and the area in question., but that history applies to how shallow and marshy that area of the lake is. 

 

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I find numerous pages with information, some by Dr. Stong himself, describing the dams constructed along the upper, middle, and lower Lerma-Chapala basin. Even maps pointing them out. Maybe they are not being described correctly?

Heavy rainfall in 1926 led to extensive flooding in the Lerma–Chapala Basin, including all of the Ciénega de Chapala. The CNI immediately focused its attention on the Lerma–Chapala Basin and formed two commissions, led by Pedro Dosal and Luis Ballesteros, to develop plans for the development of irrigation districts and hydropower plants in the basin. In their combined proposal published in 1927, they recommended the construction of the Corrales dam on the Río Lerma on the border between the Middle and Lower Lerma region, to complement the Tepuxtepec dam then under construction on the border of the Upper and Middle Lerma (Cuevas-Bulnes 1941, p. 21). The Corrales dam, with a planned storage capacity of between 750 and 1,500 hm3, would serve to irrigate the lands of the Lower Lerma region, including the Ciénega de Chapala, and to generate hydropower using the 150 m drop of the Zoró falls on the Río Lerma. They also recommended the construction of a new dam downstream of Tepuxtepec, to store more water for irrigation. It was estimated that 261,000 ha could be irrigated in the basin with surface water if these two new dams were built. Figure 4 presents the area currently irrigated in the basin, and the main irrigation schemes and dams discussed in this article.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12685-009-0002-7

12685_2009_2_Fig4_HTML.gif?as=webp

 

https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/20123103452

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2 hours ago, Mostlylost said:

Just because you have DR. in front of your name does not make you faultless nor correct all the time. Nor does it make him more learned than me on this subject.  He didn't learn about Chapala in university. 

I have driven on the dike south from Jamay to the river and seen the acres of marsh full of reeds, lirio, and water lettuce. There are many canals full of vegetation in the area. All this is pushed into the lake when the water level rises and the winds blow.  You can easily see some of this if you go the waterfront park in Jamay.

Again name the location of one other dam than the small dam (really a weir) at Ibarra. THERE ARE NONE. The vegetation is in  the river and the eastern marshes.

PS  Sorry you don't like information about the history of the lake and the area in question., but that history applies to how shallow and marshy that area of the lake is. 

 

It is not the word Doctor in front of his name that makes him more knowledgeable than you. He is way more knowledgeable than you about Lake Chapala. It was ignorant and arrogant to dismiss him as you did. That is my point, plain and simple. You are making a fool of yourself.  

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1 hour ago, Xena said:

It is not the word Doctor in front of his name that makes him more knowledgeable than you. He is way more knowledgeable than you about Lake Chapala. It was ignorant and arrogant to dismiss him as you did. That is my point, plain and simple. You are making a fool of yourself.  

Ok  the posted dam by Angus is over 300KM away by the river in the state of Mexico. Doubtful Chapala's problem is from there  The picture of the dam that was proposed in 1927 named Corrales was never built. Everything I have stated remains true. 

If being correct is being a fool I am guilty  

AA Proposed dams.JPG

AA Proposed dam corrales.JPG

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3 hours ago, Mostlylost said:

Ok  the posted dam by Angus is over 300KM away by the river in the state of Mexico. Doubtful Chapala's problem is from there  The picture of the dam that was proposed in 1927 named Corrales was never built. Everything I have stated remains true. 

If being correct is being a fool I am guilty  

AA Proposed dams.JPG

AA Proposed dam corrales.JPG

If you actually paid attention you would realize I have said NOTHING about your speculations, opinions, and guesses. What you fail to understand is my disagreement with you is over the ignorance and arrogance you exhibited by dismissing Dr. Todd Strong as someone who listens to what others say without knowing what he is talking about. Saying that is outrageous and ridiculous and causes me to dismiss you as a credible source. Other than that I do not give a shit what you have to say. So, carry on being a fool. I am finished with you. 

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I can't believe it has come down to all of this about something as simple as the lake level. All it takes is going to the shoreline and looking for yourself and talking to lakeside businesses and oldtimers to arrive at the obvious...THE LAKE IS FINE. Maybe someone ought to look into the effect of the the virus on the minds of Lakeside Gringos cooped up with masks preventing oxygen from entering their brain!!!   

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