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34 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

That's exactly what I meant about not making assumptions. You seem to think that 12,000 pesos/month is some amount that indicates a poverty level that no foreigner would be able to live on. I live on far less than that and so do lots of people I know.

That isn't what he  said at all.

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1 minute ago, happyjillin said:

That isn't what he  said at all.

It seems some people here don't read the posts.  It's obvious by the reply.

AS I STATED $12,000 PESOS PER MONTH WAS TOO  MUCH INCOME TO QUALIFY FOR THE PROGRAM FOR MEXICAN CITIZENS UNDER DISCUSSION    I MADE NO COMMENT ON WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF POOR. MEXICAN OR OTHERWISE. 

I doubt very much the poster from Sayulita lives on a total income of $12,000 per month based on previous posts.  Possible, but doubtful. The poster probably is not a Mexican citizen either. 

I would love to meet some foreigners who have gained Mexican citizenship who don't own a home and live on an income of less $550US   (notice I didn't say spend...I said income.) 

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47 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

I doubt very much the poster from Sayulita lives on a total income of $12,000 per month based on previous posts.  Possible, but doubtful. The poster probably is not a Mexican citizen either. 

I never said I was a citizen. I'm a PR. And yes, I do live on that. I have no idea what you are talking about "based on previous posts".  

No you never qualified 12,000/month as poor. But the way you wrote it, it certainly sounded like you were using it as an example of someone who lives on what you consider to be a meager amount, but doesn't qualify.

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7 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

I never said I was a citizen. I'm a PR. And yes, I do live on that. I have no idea what you are talking about "based on previous posts".  

No you never qualified 12,000/month as poor. But the way you wrote it, it certainly sounded like you were using it as an example of someone who lives on what you consider to be a meager amount, but doesn't qualify.

Please tell us ....How did you qualify for a PR on an income of under $600US per month?

 

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22 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

Please tell us ....How did you qualify for a PR on an income of under $600US per month?

 

I've lived in Mexico for 18 years. The first couple years I wasn't here full time, on a Tourist permit. I became a TR about 16 years ago, then segued to PR. The rules were different then. And my TR was a work TR- I started a small business- my income didn't come from out-of-country.

I know you think you're really clever, but you don't understand everything.

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Well I am clever enough to know that you couldn't qualify for the original FM3 16 years ago on a under $600 US income with the hope to gain income in Mexico unless you had a letter of employment from a Mexican company. But stick to your story. 

And I never even intimated that anyone living on $12000mx was poor.  It was you who was upset with someone's post regarding naturalized citizens should not try to use the program  and then you had the need to chip in about how foreigners and how they can be as  poor as Mexicans. And how the poster shouldn't have said that. (it had nothing to do with the subject)

But back to the original subject .  My information regarding the program to help low income Mexican citizens over the age of 68 is correct. And someone who makes $12,000 per month had too much income to qualify.  And as I told the OP it is only for Mexican citizens. (actually there is a special clause that could allow a non citizen access to the program but I doubt anyone reading this would meet the qualifications)

As I said in a reply to your post

I would love to meet some foreigners who have gained Mexican citizenship who don't own a home and live on an income of less $550US   (notice I didn't say spend...I said income.)  I won't hold my breath.

 

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 A post that has nothing to do with the subject  BRILLIANT  BRAVO 

Or do you have some relevant information about the subject of the old age pension for Mexicans? or for any subject matter about Mexican government programs?  

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8 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

Well I am clever enough to know that you couldn't qualify for the original FM3 16 years ago on a under $600 US income with the hope to gain income in Mexico unless you had a letter of employment from a Mexican company.

Well, you are simply wrong. I know you have an impossible time believing such a thing could be true. I used a respected immigration lawyer- he told me that he couldn't guarantee that INM would approve a working TR for my own business, but that there was no reason not to try. It was approved without any problem. I know several other foreigners who had the same experience. Mexico seems quite amenable to having foreigners start businesses here, because not only do we add to the economy in the same way that retired foreigners do, we also pay income tax on our earnings.

And lest you start berating me for taking business away from a Mexican, my business filled a niche in my community- there were no Mexican businesses here providing that service. There still aren't, 16 years later.

There is a misconception among many gringoes that the only way you can get permission to work on a TR is by having a job offer from a Mexican business or proving that you will employ Mexicans, but that isn't true. At least it wasn't when I obtained my papers. But anyone who wants to carry on believing falsehoods is welcome to wallow in their own ignorance.

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9 hours ago, Mostlylost said:

For most foreigners to become a citizen you need to have lived in Mexico with a residente card. To get that residente you needed a certain income or cash in bank to qualify. That income or equity would rule you out of receiving benefits under this program.

Just for the record we came here long before "residente" cards (temporal or permanente) existed.  That said, yes, we had an income requirement under FM3 but it was a lot lower than the latest levels.

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5 minutes ago, Natasha said:

Just for the record we came here long before "residente" cards (temporal or permanente) existed.  That said, yes, we had an income requirement under FM3 but it was a lot lower than the latest levels.

But well over $600US per month as far back as I can remember. I remember in the 70's when everyone had to make a trip to the border to renew their FMM every 6 months and you needed to ask for six months or they would give you only 2 or 3 weeks. 

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5 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Regardless of each foreign-born person's financial resources? You may not be aware, but there actually are people in that category who are just as poor as Mexicans. I don't fall into that category, but I know people who do. There would be nothing shameful or greedy about them applying for this benefit. Don't judge other people's circumstances by your own personal experience where you happen to live and with the people you happen to know.

And these people are in this country legally?.... because to qualify to be here, they would have to have met income qualification requirements regardless of when they arrived..... and then at some later time they would have to have become Mexican citizens, which  would have required  proof of FM  (old system) or Permanente (under new system) as well as a lot of other things at time of application.

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1 hour ago, Natasha said:

And these people are in this country legally?.... because to qualify to be here, they would have to have met income qualification requirements regardless of when they arrived..... and then at some later time they would have to have become Mexican citizens, which  would have required  proof of FM  (old system) or Permanente (under new system) as well as a lot of other things at time of application.

Yes, there were always some income requirements to get TR,  but as you stated above, the income requirements were much lower. And there were no foreign income requirements if approved for a working TR due to starting your own business in Mexico, or being hired by a Mexican business, as I explained above. My daughter got TR a few years ago because the school here wanted to hire her- she certainly had no foreign income at that time to show INM. Her TR was tied to that job, so when she decided she didn't want to work there anymore, she no longer qualified.

And just because someone had enough income to qualify when they received their TR and PR in the past, doesn't mean they have that same level of income forever going forward. Mexico doesn't kick you out when you've been granted residency status just because you don't have the same level of income now as you once did. As long as you're not out begging on the streets, it's immaterial.

So yes, legally.

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1 hour ago, Mostlylost said:

 A post that has nothing to do with the subject  BRILLIANT  BRAVO 

Or do you have some relevant information about the subject of the old age pension for Mexicans? or for any subject matter about Mexican government programs?  

No, I don't have ANY relevent information about this subject, and it seems like nobody else here also...thus referencing Yogi. I have been doing business here for more years that I care to mention, fulltime resident here for well over 12 years and RP for over 8, and I still can not even begin to decipher most Mexican laws and regualtions much less Federal vs. State that all seem to be open to interpetation. Maybe it is our current state of affairs here that instigates this somewhat amusing dialogue. Please read this thread from the top and you will be shaking your head and laughing at the same time!

 

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2 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Well, you are simply wrong. I know you have an impossible time believing such a thing could be true. I used a respected immigration lawyer- he told me that he couldn't guarantee that INM would approve a working TR for my own business, but that there was no reason not to try. It was approved without any problem. I know several other foreigners who had the same experience. Mexico seems quite amenable to having foreigners start businesses here, because not only do we add to the economy in the same way that retired foreigners do, we also pay income tax on our earnings.

And lest you start berating me for taking business away from a Mexican, my business filled a niche in my community- there were no Mexican businesses here providing that service. There still aren't, 16 years later.

There is a misconception among many gringoes that the only way you can get permission to work on a TR is by having a job offer from a Mexican business or proving that you will employ Mexicans, but that isn't true. At least it wasn't when I obtained my papers. But anyone who wants to carry on believing falsehoods is welcome to wallow in their own ignorance.

double nasty

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What's nasty is the people on this board who think they know everything about everything, to the point that they will even tell you that what you personally experienced couldn't possibly be true.

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7 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

...that they will even tell you that what you personally experienced couldn't possibly be true.

As a person with a permanente visa that has never shown my income to the Mexican government, I know's that's right.

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5 hours ago, mudgirl said:

 But anyone who wants to carry on believing falsehoods is welcome to wallow in their own ignorance.

absolutely double nasty

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After nearly 13 years here I've learned the one constant thing here is the rules and players constantly change and if you are attempting anything the least bit out of the ordinary it is best to hire a Mexican who knows the ropes to help you.  That also applies to some of the usual stuff like getting resident visas, driving licenses and even buying cars.  We hear about those who have negotiated the ropes successfully on their own, not so much the others.

I'm amazed at how cheap that help is and how much it has helped us avoid a lot of unnecessary stress and upset over the years.  After all, we didn't come here to deal with a bunch of problems, we came to be retired and enjoy the place.  And for the most part we have done so very well and have no intention of leaving any time soon.

And no matter what country one is in there are those who have figured out how to swim under the radar and avoid the rules.  We know more than a few of them.

 

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As stated you have to be 65 if Indian or 68 non-indian. Must have voting card. My landloard which collects U. S. SS plus my rent and probably more. receives 2550 pesos every two months. I am eligible in October. I am not saying I will apply. 

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On 6/27/2020 at 7:26 AM, ibarra said:

In yesterday's GDL Reporter, there is an article about ''Pensioners to get upfront payment"" in MX.  I have looked at the bienstar(wellness) gob.mx website and have a basic idea of what this program is all about.  It is for older Mexicans.   Does anyone have experience with signing up for this program and receiving benefits?   I believe you would need to be Mexican or a nationalized Mexican, but it may be for those who have INAPAM cards. Not sure.    TIA

I am the original OP.  Since all that are responding have not actually answered my original questions about actually using this program, I have decided to contact a lawyer who will certainly have accurate information about this program. 

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9 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

After all, we didn't come here to deal with a bunch of problems, we came to be retired and enjoy the place. 

Not all foreigners came here to be retired, you know. You just happen to live in a place where the demographic of foreigners is mainly retired. Not all communities with a large ex-pat population are like that. 

It's definitely helpful to use a facilitator or lawyer for complicated legal matters, just as you probably would anywhere. But it's only if you don't speak adequate Spanish that you need help with simple things like drivers' licenses or a simple TR renewal.

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