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Witness Arizona, Texas, and Florida.  In particular pay attention to Houston whose ICU beds are at 100% capacity. Those are facts, not speculation. Once restrictions are relaxed or ignored,

There isn't conflicting information about whether wearing a mask in public and social distancing reduces viral transmission of COVID. It is a scientific and public health issue, not a political one, o

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3 hours ago, bmh said:

It probably is vastly underestimated everywhere in the world.. I know many people in France and Mexico who had it and never reported it.. That is not uncommon for the people who can stay home and get over it. There is no medecine for it and no cure so unless it san emergency why even go tho the doctor.

Agree.

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All I want people to do is to just connect the dots, just connect the dots folks!  Lets shed some light on the article that Virgo Lady just posted.  This highly contagious virus known as Covid-19 which some sources quote it to be up to 10 times more contagious and deadly than the common flu, as of now it currently has infected up to 2% of the general population or heck, lets go with the highest figure out of New York, it has infected roughly 7 % of the population, it is common knowledge that this virus has been massively infecting people in the US since late December and or early January.   According to the most reliable statistics from the CDC less than 1% of Americans that get this virus die, and 80% of those that do die, they die due to preexisting illnesses.  We do not have a vaccine yet for Covid-19 and will probably never have a reliable vaccine.  The current mortality rate in the US is slightly higher than a very bad flu year and yet there is a flu vaccine that about 50% of the American population take annually.  The flu virus generally runs from October to May, the Coronavirus has run from late December to now, almost entering in July.  Most recent reporting is acknowledging that the mortality rate is declining rapidly around the globe.  The flu hits us every year, when did you believe that the infection rate was at only 7% of the population?  Connect the dots folks!  Generally the flu goes through the entire population and most people catch it to varying degrees more or less, it runs through families.  Even a large number of the vaccinated still catch the flu every year.  If the infection rate for Covid-19 is at between 2 to 7 percent of the general population after 7 months and the death rate is under 1%, when will you begin to realize that something ain't adding up folks?  Is it possible that we have all been duped?  They are also reporting that after those massive protests, there have not been any verifiable data to suggest a surge to date.  I guess things will look different after the election, perhaps.  Don´t believe all the opinions in the articles, within any article, most of the content is just noise, study the numbers alone.  The numbers will tell a very different story.

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The main point Virgo lady's CDC information makes is that the bug is much more prevalent than the numbers suggest.  The flip side is these data suggest the percentage of really serious cases in terms of the total is not nearly as high as suspected earlier.  Yes this virus is much worse than some of the periodic flu episodes we've seen although I would wonder if the 1918 pandemic was more than a little similar to this one.  It too was highly infectious and quite likely to kill the impaired and old.

In any case, it is clear government's ability to do much about it is pretty limited.  Be a good personal risk manager but don't let fear rule you and ruin the great quality of life we have here.

Interesting piece in this week's GDL Reporter (page 4) about how the bars in GDL are complaining about the businesses that hold restaurant licenses but do little cooking and relay on selling booze and entertainment being allowed to open while they are forced to stay shut.  IMO it is a fair complaint, we have one in our neighborhood that is empty during the dinner hour and doesn't get busy until the noise, drinking and dancing starts.

It is no accident that as soon as bars were allowed to open the number of cases flared up.  Don't fool yourselves into thinking these faux restaurants are any less dangerous than the bars that remain shut.  Avoid them and avoid the people who hang out in them.

 

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12 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Be a good personal risk manager

Agree, and be responsible to others who are more at risk than you are.     And avoid places like La Coveda.     

It is the selfish ones who become asymptomatic carriers who are causing the majority of the increases out there.

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43 minutes ago, virgo lady said:

A new way to refer to the one you refer to, in your area.....with the crowded people and loud music.

That is an excellent name for that place.  LOL

 

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13 hours ago, virgo lady said:

Agree, and be responsible to others who are more at risk than you are.     And avoid places like La Coveda.     

It is the selfish ones who become asymptomatic carriers who are causing the majority of the increases out there.

I think it is the ones doing socialization. They are young and healthy and are not afraid of getting the virus. Their job is not to look out for us, that is solely our job. You can't blame others if you get it, although you can try. :D

 

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1 hour ago, Hud said:

Their job is not to look out for us, that is solely our job.

In some people's view, it is everyone's job to look out for all of humanity. And do one's part so that others are not harmed by our own self-centeredness. Thinking you are the center of the universe is a normal state of mind for a 2 year old. Civilized people are supposed to grow out of that. But I know that's not a popular American viewpoint.

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2 hours ago, mudgirl said:

In some people's view, it is everyone's job to look out for all of humanity. And do one's part so that others are not harmed by our own self-centeredness. Thinking you are the center of the universe is a normal state of mind for a 2 year old. Civilized people are supposed to grow out of that. But I know that's not a popular American viewpoint.

Blame the Americans!!!

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And some people don't dwell in the land of reality and think it is their job to impose their view of "looking out for humanity" on everyone around them.  And constantly making virtue judgments of those who don't see it the some people's way

In the land of reality there are a bunch of people who aren't going to do what it is the some people think they should be doing and the some people waste a lot of time, energy and bandwidth trying to change that.  The rest keep the focus on their own personal risk management.

The economy of Mexico dropped an unprecedented 19.7 percent in one month, April. 

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/coronavirus/economic-activity-plunged-20-in-april/

That represents a lot of hardship and some death and starvation.  Like it or not it is pretty clear the government is realizing they can only do so much here and the thing is going to run its course.  No elected government can survive this level of economic damage from their policies and politicians in Mexico are no different than anywhere else.  They've thrown in the towel because they want to keep their jobs.

You have to take care of yourselves, folks.  

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1 minute ago, #HarryB said:

what about the long term effects on the young? Lung transplants with a lifetime of meds, heart damage?

Very rare but you need to ask that question of the politicians.  What about the long term effects of malnutrition, depression and unable to get treatment for other conditions?

We live in a country with no real safety net.  A very large percentage of the population, probably at least half, won't eat if they don't work.

 

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1 hour ago, Mainecoons said:

You have to take care of yourselves, folks.  

You're partially right.    In the bigger picture, taking care of others also ultimately takes better care of yourself.    Think about it.     This applies both to specific issues like Covid, and to national health systems.    And both of these are a (or the) key reason why the US is such a disaster with the pandemic, vs the rest of the world.

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I am thinking about it.  By any measure the community response to this has been less than stellar almost everywhere.  The U.S. does not have a national healthy system.  It is a large geographic area with tens of thousands of governments involved in public health.  That is not a structure that is going to respond well to a situation like this.  

Mexico does and how is that working out?  Not so hot.  Canada, with one tenth the population of the U.S. and a significantly healthier population, is doing about 30 percent better on a mortality rate basis.  So what?  Comparing it to its southern neighbors directly is a false comparison on a lot of levels.

To compare highly diverse and less than healthy populations with smaller, more homogeneous ones is logically false.  The U.S. and Mexico are the two fattest nations on earth.  Both have very large populations of diabetics and the other illnesses that go with obesity.  We know that directly relates to CV fatalities.  We also know there's been a real tendency to lump fatalities due primarily to other causes into CV statistics.

It is also logically false to draw comparisons with nations like China that routinely falsity all sorts of data.  Or nations whose testing and reporting is so primitive they don't begin to be able to report the real case load.  

Understanding the actual statistics here requires taking into account such things as demographics,  level of testing, how actual cause of death is determined and reported, and overall public health.

Although cases have increased NOB, the death rate continues to drop as treatment protocols improve and a less vulnerable population is more involved.  The relationship between the spikes and opening bars and mass demonstrations or rallies, both primarily involving the young, cannot be ignored.  Look around you here and NOB and you will see the participation in social distancing and mask wearing seems pretty proportional with age.  I doubt it is much different NOB.

This thing is going to run its course.  By and large, societies with elected leadership cannot maintain the social control needed to suppress it more than temporarily.  I would argue that it is not realistic to believe said suppression can last long enough for widespread vaccination and nature is going to take its course here.  By comparison with other really major pandemics like that of 1918 at least there is much better treatment available and in the end the overall death rate will not be unusual when viewing from a historical perspective.

I believe for the great majority of this group we have the advantage of being well informed about personal protection, well motivated to follow it and free of the stresses of poor housing and loss of income.  That gives us a tremendous advantage if we use it which is why I continue to suggest focusing on personal risk management and not trying to force our views on others in a country in which most of us are not citizens.

I also don't buy these handful of reports claiming there is no individual or group immunity after infection.  Far more studies conclude this virus is not atypical in that regard.  In any case the validity of herd immunity and individual immunity is in the process of being testing by default on a very large scale.  Bear in mind these spikes are occurring in populations where infection and herd immunity have been postponed, not achieved.  We aren't even close to achieving it anywhere.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nowhere-close-to-herd-immunity-for-coronavirus-2020-5

 

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Canada's main failing in Covid has not been due its health care system, it is due to the chronic systemic issues in many senior care residences, especially in Ontario and Quebec, that have caused an overwhelming majority of the cases and deaths, unfortunately.      It has been a real disaster.       

Without that, the difference between Canada and the US ratios would be much, much larger.

And here is another article featuring a senior past White House medical team leader:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/us-covid-19-surge-canada-1.5628979

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Situation in Chiapas 

Totally off from what the government is reporting.

They want to be in the orange zone  so they do not test, do not accept people with covirus in the hospitals so undercount by 10 times and more and will be in the orange zone.. For those of you who want to go there do not...

In many indigeeous comunities the covirus is not recognized as real and they think it is an invention of the government , meanwhile they will tell yo that they have hd many people sick and dying of the ENFERMEDAD... with fever, toss and loss of taste but that they have a special tea that cures it.. They also say that it is over and that the people who were to die, died and the others are recupering...

The situation down there is a little like a twighlight zone pretty scary...

For those who are curious check the article Chiaps the dead they did not count-- from 35 death in  onth they went up to 370 but none of it is reported as covirus...

 

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On 6/26/2020 at 8:04 AM, HoneyBee said:

Guiness, out of curiosity how do you know that only American expats are traveling back and forth ? 

I was curious about this my self------?  When you find out let me know please! 

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1 hour ago, virgo lady said:

Canada's main failing in Covid has not been due its health care system, it is due to the chronic systemic issues in many senior care residences, especially in Ontario and Quebec, that have caused an overwhelming majority of the cases and deaths, unfortunately.      It has been a real disaster.       

Without that, the difference between Canada and the US ratios would be much, much larger.

And here is another article featuring a senior past White House medical team leader:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/us-covid-19-surge-canada-1.5628979

The governments in 4 states managed to kill a bunch of seniors too.

Let's don't go off on a discussion about the U.S. and Canada.  Our concern and the focus of this board is Mexico.  As you can see from BMH's post, the situation here isn't good and the government doesn't have its act together.  It is foolish to rely on them at all IMO.

 

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6 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

In the land of reality there are a bunch of people who aren't going to do what it is the some people think they should be doing and the some people waste a lot of time, energy and bandwidth trying to change that. 

Just because someone observes and comments on something doesn't mean they waste their time trying to change it. You can't change the minds or ways of people whose belief systems are closed to new information or anything that contradicts their opinions.

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2 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Just because someone observes and comments on something doesn't mean they waste their time trying to change it. You can't change the minds or ways of people whose belief systems are closed to new information or anything that contradicts their opinions.

Or sometimes they don't interpret all the conflicting information out there the way you do or in general see things the way you do.  One generally doesn't change minds by being judgmental or insulting the intelligence of others for the sin of not agreeing with one.

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