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Why must you frequently make fun of some people to make your point? Your point could have been well made without a reference to people crowded around a cellphone. And being "far too complicated for some people" is just another put down. 

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Just now, pappysmarket said:

Why must you frequently make fun of some people to make your point? Your point could have been well made without a reference to people crowded around a cellphone. And being "far too complicated for some people" is just another put down. 

How was using an example of people crowding around a cellphone making fun of them?  I used it because I saw employees in a grocery store doing exactly that a couple days ago, so it's the first thing that came to my mind as far as people not seeming to understand the seriousness of the contagion. There are countless examples that could have been used to make the point. And yes, I have no issue with put downs of people who cavalierly think it's okay not to follow the safety directives, like wearing their mask around their neck like some kind of adolescent show of protest, simply because they think it's some overblown hoax or don't believe the virus will affect them and don't care if they might possibly infect others.

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2 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

And yes, I have no issue with put downs of people who cavalierly think it's okay not to follow the safety directives,

And you sure are so convinced you know who is right and who is wrong.

The old saying "He's not conceited, he's convinced" comes to mind.

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54 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

And you sure are so convinced you know who is right and who is wrong.

I just listen to the scientific and medical reports which make it clear that this is a virus which is primarily passed by close contact between people through respiratory droplets. There isn't any contention about that fact. That isn't some kind of moral issue, some matter of being convinced that one is right- it's called science.

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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32405162/?fbclid=IwAR2_vJ8y4vUQ7lHbAC792SoCUztjIeKPhUAwmpr9k4p0fo3U-aszhRZyYoE

Quote

Abstract

Background: An ongoing outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has spread around the world. It is debatable whether asymptomatic COVID-19 virus carriers are contagious. We report here a case of the asymptomatic patient and present clinical characteristics of 455 contacts, which aims to study the infectivity of asymptomatic carriers.

Material and methods: 455 contacts who were exposed to the asymptomatic COVID-19 virus carrier became the subjects of our research. They were divided into three groups: 35 patients, 196 family members and 224 hospital staffs. We extracted their epidemiological information, clinical records, auxiliary examination results and therapeutic schedules.

Results: The median contact time for patients was four days and that for family members was five days. Cardiovascular disease accounted for 25% among original diseases of patients. Apart from hospital staffs, both patients and family members were isolated medically. During the quarantine, seven patients plus one family member appeared new respiratory symptoms, where fever was the most common one. The blood counts in most contacts were within a normal range. All CT images showed no sign of COVID-19 infection. No severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infections was detected in 455 contacts by nucleic acid test.

Conclusion: In summary, all the 455 contacts were excluded from SARS-CoV-2 infection and we conclude that the infectivity of some asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers might be weak.

 

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Interesting the above source of this study.  Makes one wonder.  Any credible studies from Europe or North America to confirm??

Affiliations

  • 1The Second School of Clinical Medicine, Southern Medical University, Guangdong Provincial People's Hospital, Guangdong Academy of Medical Sciences, Guangzhou, 510515, China.
  • 2Hospital Infection Control Division, Guangdong Provincial People's Hospital, Guangdong Academy of Medical Sciences, Guangzhou, 510080, China.
  • 3Department of Infectious Disease, Guangdong Provincial People's Hospital, Guangdong Academy of Medical Sciences, Guangzhou, 510080, China.
  • 4Guangdong Provincial People's Hospital, Guangdong Academy of Medical Sciences, School of Medicine, South China University of Technology, Guangzhou, 510080, China.
  • 5Department of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine, Guangdong Provincial People's Hospital, Guangdong Academy of Medical Sciences, Guangdong Provincial Geriatrics Institute, Guangzhou, 510080, China.

 

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There's still research going on into all of this. How much of a viral load you need in order to contract the virus (one person who is infected breathing on you as opposed to someone coughing on you or being in close contact with someone who's infected for half an hour as opposed to an entire day), what other factors, aside from your general state of health may play into it (i.e. do you live in a non-industrial area where you are normally breathing fresh air, or are you living in a city with a lot of smog), all that stuff. It's a new virus- we can expect that some things that were initally thought to be true may not prove to be so, that the virus may mutate so that what they have found to be consistently true may not be true a month from now. I really don't think that the scientific and medical community are purposely trying to come out with incorrect information or mislead anyone- they are doing their best, but these things take time.

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On 5/24/2020 at 2:48 PM, HookEmHorns said:
Found this post for NOB. Thought it might offer something here. You decide for yourself.
 
I saw on the NBC "news" tonight that IF they open the schools in the fall, there would only be 12 students per classroom and the buses would run at 1/8 the capacity. NOT BELIEVING EVERYTHING I HEAR, I did some research of my own to find out the number of coronavirus deaths there have been in each age group. The results I found were ridiculously LOW in the age group 0-24. (I'm a nerd--I made a spreadsheet.) The narrative that schools will have to be closed or operated very differently (social distancing, masks, online learning, etc.), is completely unjustified. Think about what FURTHER financial effects this would have on families where both parents work (and don't have jobs where they can work from home). Is one parent going to be forced to quit their job in order to transport their child to/from school during staggered hours/days AND in order to teach their children at home on a part-time basis? If both parents continue to work and the child(ren) go to daycare when they are not in school, how will they pay for such a large expense? If children receive free breakfast and lunch at school because of the family's low income, what is their risk of going hungry at home? If young students don't have the internet at home, will they be able to do their school work or will they have have to wait until their parent gets home to use their cell phone? What about sports? What about extra curricular activities? Life needs to return to NORMAL for all of us, especially for children and teens. Last but not least--WHY are they making this decision in MAY??!! (You can screenshot the photo if you would like to share.) #questioneverything #numbersthatjustdontaddup #falsenarrative #wewantourlivesback
No photo description available.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

If "US" over 65 year olds are in the top percentile of deaths etc , then would it more reasonable to issue stay at home restriction for that high risk group and let the "others" back to work. After all we need to ensure someone is going to pay taxes to prop up our pensions!!!

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40 minutes ago, lakeside7 said:

If "US" over 65 year olds are in the top percentile of deaths etc , then would it more reasonable to issue stay at home restriction for that high risk group and let the "others" back to work. After all we need to ensure someone is going to pay taxes to prop up our pensions!!!

Enforcement is the problem, as some over 65 think they are "invincible", so they will go out. By now anyone with common sense should know who the high risk are and therefore , if they fall into that category, take extra measures to protect themselves. My responsibility is to provide for myself and my family, not you and yours. We are not all in this together, nor are we in the same boat.

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On 5/24/2020 at 3:33 PM, Paco Loco said:

Spreading the disease is how we achieve heard immunity. There are some experts saying today that the COVID 19 is already beginning to die off. Testing is nice for gauging lethality but does nothing to quell the pandemic. It does seem to indicate that this virus is only slightly more deadly than the seasonal flu virus. What we’ve seen is a “pandemic panic” that’s unprecedented. The panic has destroyed more lives than the virus. 

So far, herd immunity (spelled without the "a") has been tried without success.  It was tried in Sweden recently, without success.

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2 minutes ago, bdmowers said:

So far, herd immunity (spelled without the "a") has been tried without success.  It was tried in Sweden recently, without success.

Still in progress as they freely admit.  I posted a link from them that explained all that.

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2 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Still in progress as they freely admit.  I posted a link from them that explained all that.

I don`t see the link....

Otherwise:

Bjorn Olsen, a professor of infectious medicine at Uppsala University (in Sweden), told Reuters, "I think herd immunity is a long way off, if we ever reach it."

Business Insider, May 22:
Sweden's Public Health Agency last week released the initial findings of an ongoing antibodies study that showed that only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had developed antibodies against COVID-19 by late April.

Herd immunity requires at least 60% to 70% of people to achieve immunity.

May 14:
With 39.26 deaths per 100,000, Sweden's mortality rate is higher than that of the U.S. (29.87 deaths per 100,000) and exponentially higher than those of its neighbors Norway (4.42 per 100,000) and Finland (5.56 per 100,000).

As far as I know, Sweden is the only country that is trying "herd immunity".

 

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That's pretty much what the link says.  They aren't relying on herd immunity, rather the fact that most cases are mild or asymptomatic.  They also had a big problem with nursing homes which they freely admit not handling properly.  Here's the link:

https://www.ft.com/content/a2b4c18c-a5e8-4edc-8047-ade4a82a548d

At this point their death rate corresponds to four one hundredths percent (0.04%) of the population and their new case load is leveling out.  As per usual, the death rate is heavily affected by the problem of CV in nursing homes, something the author freely admits they failed at protecting properly.

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It's not just people dying form the virus, it's people getting sick in large numbers at one time and affecting the critical supply chains. An example is that the large meat/poultry processing plants that have had to close temporarily because of outbreaks. In Canada this has backed up the whole supply chain. Farmers have cattle that they can't send to slaughter, and they're having to feed them so they're out financially , and consumers are suffering because there isn't as much meat in the grocery stores (so quantity limits)  and prices have gone up (no weekly sales) . I live in a community of 15,000 with 2 grocery stores and a Walmar,  we're worried that one or more of the stores might have to close if there's an outbreak and the other two would have difficulty keeping up (getting deliveries such as milk and bread diverted takes time). We also have a major electric plant the supplies 30% of Ontario's power while they have very strict quarantine protocols, etc,  just imagine the worst case. Our fire department is a volunteer one, and most of the firefighters are of the age that they have children …. the firefighters could all get sick at once and take out a whole fire station ….. There isn't an easy solution to this, but just focusing on the fact that young children aren't dying in high numbers only looks at part of the problem.

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