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AlongTheWay

A little perspective on the current pandemic hysteria

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19 minutes ago, ea93105 said:

The critical difference is that Covid 19 is TEN times more contagious than the flu , no comparison

How do you know that figure? 

Nobody on the planet knows how many people are infected.  Nobody. 

Without it, the contagion percentage can not be calculated. You are right.  There is no comparison, but your reasoning is wrong.  You can't compare these numbers because the first is years behind us and the second has just shown itself.

 

 

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The common flu has a vaccine every year that a little over 50% of the Us population get yearly.  Let that sink in!  Coronavirus still does not have a vaccine.  Roughly 60 thousand Americans have died from the flu just this year also it is said that roughly 60 thousand Americans have also died from the Coronavirus.  Imagine if there were no vaccine for the common flu, I really wonder which would be more deadly.

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Sorry, I remembered reading a "ten times" article but it appears to be ten times more deadly according to the WHO :  "The novel coronavirus is 10 times more deadly than swine flu, also called H1N1 "

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54 minutes ago, El Menudo said:

You got that right!  Now we have monkeys.

 

53 minutes ago, El Menudo said:

We should and need to be afraid.

 

40 minutes ago, El Menudo said:

A shallow and self center point of view.

 

26 minutes ago, El Menudo said:

Stop staring at the sun ☀️ 

 

19 minutes ago, El Menudo said:

Lame comparison.

Do you have anything even slightly resembling intelligent thought to share?  Something that any thinking or rational person would consider a valuable contribution to this topic, this form, or this community?   Rhetorical, I assure you.

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3 minutes ago, AlongTheWay said:

 

 

 

 

Do you have anything even slightly resembling intelligent thought to share?  Something that any thinking or rational person would consider a valuable contribution to this topic, this form, or this community?   Rhetorical, I assure you.

 

3 minutes ago, AlongTheWay said:

 

 

 

 

Do you have anything even slightly resembling intelligent thought to share?  Something that any thinking or rational person would consider a valuable contribution to this topic, this form, or this community?   Rhetorical, I assure you.

When there is someone intelligent to chat with, sure.  But it’s not you Helen.

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54 minutes ago, Zeb said:

Really...to be walking around on the street with nobody around and wearing a mask?  To have helicopters observing us.  It makes no sense.  I am sure I will get all types of criticism for this as most cannot tolerate a view point that does not agree with mainstream.  It all defies logic.

It's really simple.  People who have compromised immune systems and feel they are at risk can take all their precautions, including staying home.  They can stay where they feel secure and control the ins and outs in their own homes.  They can wear masks or whatever it is that makes them feel secure.

The rest can make their own decision.  We are adults, not children who need a government to run our lives and have police helicopters flying over and threatening us. 

AMEN AMEN AMEN

 

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16 minutes ago, dichosalocura said:

The common flu has a vaccine every year that a little over 50% of the Us population get yearly.  Let that sink in!  Coronavirus still does not have a vaccine.  Roughly 60 thousand Americans have died from the flu just this year also it is said that roughly 60 thousand Americans have also died from the Coronavirus.  Imagine if there were no vaccine for the common flu, I really wonder which would be more deadly.

Many posters refer to COVID 19 as a cold or a virus or the common flu.  Yes that is true up to a point.  But there is more.

The game changer in this case is the H1N1 1957 virus had a vaccine available that was rapidly developed.  COVID-19...Nope.  Nada.  And don't hold your breath.

Here is the analogy for those of us who live to push a myopic view of COVID-19: 

Two American paratroopers load into a plane.  When they jump, only one has a parachute and the other not.  Guess which one lives? 

That is the difference between the flu with a vaccine and COVID-19.  

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4 minutes ago, ea93105 said:

Sorry, I remembered reading a "ten times" article but it appears to be ten times more deadly according to the WHO :  "The novel coronavirus is 10 times more deadly than swine flu, also called H1N1 "

This is the same thing.  A comparison can't be factually stated or correctly made without a proper head count of the number of infected. 

Nor can it be accurate, for additional reasons. 

For one, CDC states:  "This includes deaths where COVID-19 is listed as a “presumed” or “probable” cause." 

Presumptions are not facts.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/tech_notes.htm

Also, many states and countries report quite differently regarding their "deaths".  A Pew Trusts report a few days ago mentions this.

"... the patchwork of available information shows the differing ability of health officials to accurately collect and report data"

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2020/04/27/public-coronavirus-data-varies-widely-between-states

And this from USATODAY:

Mapping coronavirus numbers across the USA reveals stark variations in reported cases between counties separated by state lines".

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/05/04/covid-19-numbers-along-state-lines-show-problems-reopening-plans/3050921001/

And BBC points out.

"There are differences in how countries record Covid-19 deaths.  France and Germany, for example, have been including deaths in care homes in the headline numbers they produce every day.

But the daily figures for England referred only to deaths in hospitals until 29 April, when they started factoring in deaths in care homes as well.

A further complication is that there is no accepted international standard for how you measure deaths, or their causes.

Does somebody need to have been tested for coronavirus to count towards the statistics, or are the suspicions of a doctor enough?

Germany counts deaths in care homes only if people have tested positive for the virus. Belgium, on the other hand, includes any death in which a doctor suspects coronavirus was involved.

https://www.bbc.com/news/52311014

 

A person might have been dying from, for example, diabetes, become infected and "die sooner".  Or it might have been a 93 year old on oxygen or a ventilator, being held to life by modern medical abilities, become infected and die sooner.

Certainly many might argue that the virus was the cause, but it's more likely the virus primarily, a catalyst.  I can't prove that.  Nobody can yet.

Regardless, without knowing the real numbers, and being able to compare apples to apples.

Nobody knows.

 

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14 minutes ago, Kiko said:

Two American paratroopers load into a plane.  When they jump, only one has a parachute and the other not.  Guess which one lives? 

That is the difference between the flu with a vaccine and COVID-19.  

Opinion stated as fact.

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37 minutes ago, El Menudo said:

 

When there is someone intelligent to chat with, sure.  But it’s not you Helen.

Erroneous presumption.  Fits in well with your over all appearance.

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7 minutes ago, 4fingersfreddy said:

My belief? You are quite wrong. Far too many adults ARE children. And thus need to be treated as such.

You obviously being one of those that can tell the difference and have self-identified as an "adult".

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30 minutes ago, AlongTheWay said:

Opinion stated as fact.

So if a vaccine is developed for CV19, then is it a fact that the fatality rate will remain the same without any vaccine?

What are your facts?

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15 minutes ago, 4fingersfreddy said:

My belief? You are quite wrong. Far too many adults ARE children. And thus need to be treated as such.

I agree. If people acted responsibly, with a strong social conscience that valued doing things with the common good in mind, instead of jumping up and down screaming and yelling about how their rights are being violated, like a bunch of clueless teenagers, no one would have to make directives and orders about self-isolation and lockdowns. A South Korean, who posts on a forum I follow, said that South Korea got a good handle on the virus quite early on, without having to impose lockdowns,, because the people understood the dangers and complied with the wisdom of isolating. 

If people didn't drive drunk, because they had a conscience about doing so, there wouldn't be any need for laws against drunk driving and stripping people of their driver's licenses. Society has decided that drunk drivers endanger others, so regardless of whether someone thinks they're sober enough to drive, if they get stopped, they get charged. No one starts yelling about how it violates anyone's rights for a cop to pull someone over for being drunk behind the wheel, yet staying home and wearing a mask when you go out, to keep a virus from spreading, is somehow seen as a violation of one's freedom. I'd say those folks need to grow up.

 

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I’m not really bothered to see many people not wearing masks in public .  I’m also O K with the many protesters in the US not wearing masks  in large crowds.. l ‘m quite happy to see the religious zealots congregating  without masks . My list is long mostly in the red states where they are opening before they even reach their peak...it’s called  Darwinian selection...the only problem is they can infect  others  ..far less stupid ..which they are  obviously  oblivious to .

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"Fool me once, shame on you/Fool me twice...can't get fooled again." --George W. Bush

The original post makes a glaring error in its statistical comparison. It compares statistics of an event that ran its course in 1957 to  a current event that is still in progress. Although we may have a good idea of how many people died during the 1957 event, the death totals from the current event are rising and may continue to rise for some time. We do not know how many people will eventually die from the covid pandemic of 2020, which makes it impossible  to calculate  a rate of death to use for comparison.

That sound you hear in the background is the sound of political axes being ground. Take the wisdom of George W. Bush to heart  and don't get fooled again.

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Just now, 4fingersfreddy said:

Yes. And you?

YMMD

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1 hour ago, Ian Greenwood said:

I’m not really bothered to see many people not wearing masks in public .  I’m also O K with the many protesters in the US not wearing masks  in large crowds.. l ‘m quite happy to see the religious zealots congregating  without masks . My list is long mostly in the red states where they are opening before they even reach their peak...it’s called  Darwinian selection...the only problem is they can infect  others  ..far less stupid ..which they are  obviously  oblivious to .

Yep, I kind of feel the same. Let them pack their churches, hold rallies where they scream their spittle all over each other, pass the bottle around, admire and handle each other's guns, and infect each other. Then send sanitation teams around to hose down the streets and objects they touched with bleach solution when they all go home.

And they should all have to sign waivers declining any treatment when they get sick.

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4 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Yep, I kind of feel the same. Let them pack their churches, hold rallies where they scream their spittle all over each other, pass the bottle around, admire and handle each other's guns, and infect each other. Then send sanitation teams around to hose down the streets and objects they touched with bleach solution when they all go home.

And they should all have to sign waivers declining any treatment when they get sick.

Quite sick!!! Why don't you take this to TOB? They would love it!!!

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10 hours ago, Shag said:

AMEN AMEN AMEN

 

I concur...AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!

9 hours ago, 4fingersfreddy said:

My belief? You are quite wrong. Far too many adults ARE children. And thus need to be treated as such.

4fingers...your conclusion is frightening. Whether or not they ACT like children, they are adults and have earned the right to make their own decisions. I will be damned if I allow Big Brother to creep into my life and decide how I should live, based on my " own good."  It's just a small step, but many small steps equal one large fall. No thanks. What I find equally frightening is the number of folks that have jumped on the bandwagon like sheeple. Yelling louder than most doesn't make you any more right than anyone else and those who wish "spittle" to fall upon others seriously need a mental check. Wow, the vitriol that spews when others attempt to disagree just saddens me. There are those here who I do disagree with, but present some strong, FACT-BASED arguments that make me think. They may or may not change my viewpoint, but they definitely give me reasons to listen. 

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Flu is flu, and the 1957-58 was not asymptomatic (amongst other things), which this Covid-19 is. Covid-19 scientist report 50% of population could be asymptomatic. Flu was not an asymptomatic spreader, with people infected going happily about, never experiencing symptoms, and unaware of their positive status. In simpler terms, this is one sneaky evasive virus, with people now reporting fever 50 days out, even though they have cleared their positive status, and been retested as negative. Furthermore, to compare this to a flu, where a vaccine for H2N2 was introduced in 1957, and the pandemic slowed down, further points out that 1957 was a different animal all together.  There was a second wave in 1958, and H2N2 went on to become part of the regular wave of seasonal flu, till it became extinct. Covid-19 will be here for years (min 2).  Still comparing?  No compare. 

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8 hours ago, Ian Greenwood said:

I’m not really bothered to see many people not wearing masks in public .  I’m also O K with the many protesters in the US not wearing masks  in large crowds.. l ‘m quite happy to see the religious zealots congregating  without masks . My list is long mostly in the red states where they are opening before they even reach their peak...it’s called  Darwinian selection...the only problem is they can infect  others  ..far less stupid ..which they are  obviously  oblivious to .

Yes, maybe survival of the fittest.

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