New septic tank construction ?

[ea93105]

The drawing I posted is just the primary solids tank even though it has  2 chambers. The black water continues on to an even large leach tank not shown in the drawing. Anyone familiar with a biodigester tank like what Rotoplas makes ? I'm not sure newer is always better.

[happyjillin]

7 hours ago, ea93105 said:

The drawing I posted is just the primary solids tank even though it has  2 chambers. The black water continues on to an even large leach tank not shown in the drawing. Anyone familiar with a biodigester tank like what Rotoplas makes ? I'm not sure newer is always better.

Rotoplas, looks like a good choice and available here.

[rafterbr]

10 hours ago, ea93105 said:

The drawing I posted is just the primary solids tank even though it has  2 chambers. The black water continues on to an even large leach tank not shown in the drawing. Anyone familiar with a biodigester tank like what Rotoplas makes ? I'm not sure newer is always better.

I suggest you talk to conractors about black water, grey water tanks.  They will do what you want at a much cheaper cost.  A lot of contractors don't use cement underground construction here because rocks are harder and will stand up to underground movement better. 

[lakeside7]

 I would suggest that  if Chapala  Municipal  had strict  and enforcement regulations for ground perculation requirements... a significant number of homes would not have been allowed at Lakeside,  in particular  the sections south of the highway  like

La Foresta, SAT and Riberas del Pilar, areas in those locations they have a significantly  high table  water level

[rafterbr]

1 hour ago, oregontochapala said:

 During the rainy season in particular, when the soil is saturated, even one load a day overloaded our grey water tank. 

  

My grey water tank has a easily removed lid.  When the water level gets high I simply drop in a small submersible water pump and pump water on the garden for an hour or two.  Good to go usually for month or two.

[mudgirl]

15 hours ago, happyjillin said:

Now 2 of us don't understand but you do? SNORK!

As you and Rafter can now see, the OP has now made it clear that my understanding of what he was trying to explain was correct. So yes, your quote here is correct, 2 of you didn't understand and I did. But of course there will be no apology coming from arrogant babies who think they are so much smarter than anyone else.

[ea93105]

5 hours ago, lakeside7 said:

 I would suggest that  if Chapala  Municipal  had strict  and enforcement regulations for ground perculation requirements... a significant number of homes would not have been allowed at Lakeside,  in particular  the sections south of the highway  like

La Foresta, SAT and Riberas del Pilar, areas in those locations they have a significantly  high table  water level

While biking around Riberas I'm convinced that there underground springs in several locations which were built on top of and the water is seeping up  and flowing into the street even now in the dry season. I can see the same thing happening one block down at the same location. I'm sure those homes have a hard time with their septic systems. Fortunately I don't have that problem.

[ea93105]

7 hours ago, oregontochapala said:

That is what we have, and at the end of the line a traditional grey water tank/pit made of brick.

A couple of suggestions based on our experience. 1) The soil in much of the area is like a sponge. When it's dry, it absorbs, but when saturated that's pretty much it and it doesn't drain well. When they dig for your grey water pit, make sure they  surround it with a "filter" of layered materials including gravel and pumice, so the water can dissipate over a greater area. 2) Do not allow any bleach products down your drain. It kills the bacteria that breaks down the waste. I buy levadura- yeast- and flush a packet down the loo at least once a month to keep the bacteria active, 3) Do not and I repeat, do not put grease down the sink! It will not break down. I keep clean cans and if I have any kind of grease or fat I put it in the can and freeze it until trash day. I have learned to use paper towels to wipe out any residual grease or butter from pans before washing them. 4) Buy a bigger tank than you think you will need and if possible, have your washing machine drain elsewhere. During the rainy season in particular, when the soil is saturated, even one load a day overloaded our grey water tank. 

  

I'm trying to study up the the Biodigester tank like the Rotoplas but having trouble finding much in English. Are these tanks not used NOB  ? Are the precautions you mentioned specific to this type of tank ? Do they produce more gas ? Any maintenance ?

[Ferret]

OregontoChapala gave you good advice. The precautions that were mentioned in his/her post are standard for any type of waste water treatment that is not hooked up to a municipal sewer. You can google "care of a septic system" for more information confirmation. One thing that is usually not in older Mexican homes is a vent stack... make sure you have one.

In many chalets in Canada, there is a plaque on the wall above the TP holder that states "Nothing in the septic unless you have eaten it first". Rude and crude and very much to the point although there is TP now made that is septic system friendly.

I wrote this poem to a tenant who continually flushed tampons and baby wipes into the system causing lots of problems...

"Though things that are flushed are often hush-hushed,

It's important that you should know,

In the city, you're not, when you sit on the pot

Lest you block what is known at "the flow".

Foreign things at a junction, can cause a malfunction,

If the contents aren't bodily made.

And while you seek relief, you'll cause nothing but grief,

And the management's lengthy tirade."

Edited to add: This link about the kind of TP to use... I LOVE this guy's sense of humour...

https://www.theartofdoingstuff.com/the-only-toilet-paper-you-ever-should-buy/

 

 

[Jim Bowie]

4 hours ago, Upfront said:

mudgirl, you seem to have difficulty understanding that its your atitude that is difficult to understnad. Here are some recent quotes from you.

 

WOW !!! You really nailed it !!! You will just get jumped on for being honest. You know that type here. But, good job !!! 

 

[mudgirl]

4 hours ago, ea93105 said:

I'm trying to study up the the Biodigester tank like the Rotoplas but having trouble finding much in English. Are these tanks not used NOB  ? Are the precautions you mentioned specific to this type of tank ? Do they produce more gas ? Any maintenance ?

I have a Rotoplas tank- it looks basially like a tinako, except it has the intake and out-take 4"holes and a filter, which is just a plastic built-in basket with a bunch of scrap plastic pieces in it just in front of the out-take hole. The liquid then flows into a leach field-concrete blocks with small spaces between them, a meter and a half in length, width, and depth. I have never had a problem with it, never had to get it pumped out since the place was built 12 years ago. I live alone, but often have o'nite guests, and it has handled all that. Have never had to do any maintenance whatsover. I flush the poopy paper, don't fuss about buying tp designed for septics, but all else goes in the wastebasket. I even use bleach and muriatic acid in the toilet occasionally, to remove hard water build-up, with no ill effects.

[lakeside7]

Where are JP Service located please

[Ferret]

In the little plaza between Deli 8 and the hardware store. The little plaza is smack between Paz Licores and iShop.

[Kiko]

On 5/1/2020 at 11:37 AM, rafterbr said:

My grey water tank has a easily removed lid.  When the water level gets high I simply drop in a small submersible water pump and pump water on the garden for an hour or two.  Good to go usually for month or two.

I have been thinking about that also but am curious if the grey water has any odor when sprayed in the garden or does the odor dissipate.

[mudgirl]

On 5/1/2020 at 12:37 AM, ea93105 said:

The drawing I posted is just the primary solids tank even though it has  2 chambers. The black water continues on to an even large leach tank not shown in the drawing. Anyone familiar with a biodigester tank like what Rotoplas makes ? I'm not sure newer is always better.

Something I should add to my post above re how my system works and that I've never had a problem with it, nor ever had to get it pumped, is that as far as grey water is concerned, only one shower goes into the septic. So all that's on the septic is 2 toilets and one shower. I built my place from scratch, so the grey water from other sources goes elsewhere- I don't have a grey water tank that I have to pump out- the piping from the washing machine goes to one area of the garden, from the kitchen sink to another area, and the bathroom sinks and 2nd shower to yet another area. I took 2" pvc pipe, drilled half-inch holes every 4 inches or so, so those pipes water a lot of planting areas. I capped the end of the pipes so the water goes out the holes, but I didn't glue the caps in place- they are just held in place with a rock. That way, if they get plugged up, I can just stick a hose in there and blast them out with water. But the only one that's ever required that is the kitchen sink pipe.

You don't see any of those pipes- they're all hidden by plants.

[rafterbr]

12 hours ago, Kiko said:

I have been thinking about that also but am curious if the grey water has any odor when sprayed in the garden or does the odor dissipate.

The water smells a little soapy from the soap in it but the smell soon goes away and is not unpleasant to me.

[The DOCTOR]

Hi Gang.....

I regulated, issued/denied permits and inspected subsurface wastewater disposal systems of all kinds and in all types of terrain in WA state for many years, in wet parts and dry parts of the state, in mountains, rock, gravel, clay, mixtures of all soils, and by rivers and lakes. I participated in state rulemaking for these systems in the mid-1970s, and subsequent changes over 30 years, including mound systems,  bio-digesters, evaporative lagoons, and proprietary designs. What sewage disposal, on-site, all boils down to is the fact that the ground in any area can only absorb up to the point of saturation. It also is  equally about not polluting your well, groundwater and other nearby bodies of water, or putting feces on the surface of the ground and spreading disease. Probably should have put that first. Public Health is number one priority for me. The most practical way to begin on new onsite septic or other system construction is to dig a six foot hole (think backhoe at our age)  in the area you would propose to put your waste water, do it during the rainy season if time permits, and wait until the next day to see if it fills all or partially with groundwater, or is fed by a spring. Riberas and Floresta are notorious for being saturated that sometimes stink all to be damned in the rainy season, and I am so glad I found that out, by asking around to the neighbors before I bought into the realtor's hype.  Anyway, I will address "floating septic tanks" next. A concrete tank will float almost as fast as a plastic one, just like a concrete swimming pool will pop out of the ground if the water table rises underneath, so the issue of plastic versus concrete tank- floating is largely moot. I will next address "pan evaporation rate" versus "net precipitation".  Airports and other places that have weather stations will know how much rain falls in what months AND they will know how much evaporation takes place during the same period. Annually and monthly. This information is used for lots of reasons, including farming,  flying, construction planning, engineering, etc.  So why this MAY be a factor for your project is that if the net precipitation exceeds the pan evaporation rate, and the precipitation cannot be diverted from your proposed disposal area, you will experience saturation of the area and the stinky mess I referred to above at places near the lake heading out of Chapala toward Ajijic. I suspect lower AJ may have problems too, but have not been door to door there.  If you live in a micro climate with a net precip vs pan-evap rate that will get rid of say 1,2 or 3 feet of water per year just from evaporation, then you are in luck and can plan to incorporate hydrophylic, salt-tolerant grasses like Russian Rye and others that are local and which a yard and garden store can supply you to suck up effluent from your drainfield (referred to above as pipes with holes for drainage) and this will increase your successful design and prevent flooding crap into your yard or garden/lanscape plantings. If you do go with a concrete tank, keep it as shallow as possible given your house plumbing outlet(s) and be sure to put access risers (not shown on this schematic) over the access covers to allow for pumping, repairs and checking sludge accumulating in the bottom of the tank sections. You can also check the inlet and outlet baffle T's to see that they are still there and are secure. Another important design feature for wet areas especially, but all drainfields or leachbeds is a 4" outside-diameter alternating valve to let wastewater flow into a section of the drainage absorption area that is relatively dried out and "rested" This allows soil microorganisms that feed on nitrogen and other septage components, as well as bugs and worms that love to eat our nutrient rich waste, to gobble up the goodies that would otherwise both eventually seal the bottom and sidewalls of the wet parts of the drainage area, and also cut short the lifespan of your system. A typical strategy would be to alternate every 6 to 12 months, giving the micro-organisms time to work underground. The access covers can be made of concrete or plastic and must be child-proof. Bolts can be fitted to do this. The alternating valve should be several feet at least from the tank outlet and have a fitted cap at ground level, again childproof/;tamperproof, and installed so that you can still mow over if you have a lawn. Drawings for 4" alternating valves can be had by any engineer, or you can draw your own up and hand it to your contractor. It is not rocket science.

I wish you all good luck, good health, and a life without living in your own or someone else's Poop. Preserve your health and that of others and the environment we all share.

[happyjillin]

1 hour ago, The DOCTOR said:

Hi Gang.....

I regulated, issued/denied permits and inspected subsurface wastewater disposal systems of all kinds and in all types of terrain in WA state for many years, in wet parts and dry parts of the state, in mountains, rock, gravel, clay, mixtures of all soils, and by rivers and lakes. I participated in state rulemaking for these systems in the mid-1970s, and subsequent changes over 30 years, including mound systems,  bio-digesters, evaporative lagoons, and proprietary designs. What sewage disposal, on-site, all boils down to is the fact that the ground in any area can only absorb up to the point of saturation. It also is  equally about not polluting your well, groundwater and other nearby bodies of water, or putting feces on the surface of the ground and spreading disease. Probably should have put that first. Public Health is number one priority for me. The most practical way to begin on new onsite septic or other system construction is to dig a six foot hole (think backhoe at our age)  in the area you would propose to put your waste water, do it during the rainy season if time permits, and wait until the next day to see if it fills all or partially with groundwater, or is fed by a spring. Riberas and Floresta are notorious for being saturated that sometimes stink all to be damned in the rainy season, and I am so glad I found that out, by asking around to the neighbors before I bought into the realtor's hype.  Anyway, I will address "floating septic tanks" next. A concrete tank will float almost as fast as a plastic one, just like a concrete swimming pool will pop out of the ground if the water table rises underneath, so the issue of plastic versus concrete tank- floating is largely moot. I will next address "pan evaporation rate" versus "net precipitation".  Airports and other places that have weather stations will know how much rain falls in what months AND they will know how much evaporation takes place during the same period. Annually and monthly. This information is used for lots of reasons, including farming,  flying, construction planning, engineering, etc.  So why this MAY be a factor for your project is that if the net precipitation exceeds the pan evaporation rate, and the precipitation cannot be diverted from your proposed disposal area, you will experience saturation of the area and the stinky mess I referred to above at places near the lake heading out of Chapala toward Ajijic. I suspect lower AJ may have problems too, but have not been door to door there.  If you live in a micro climate with a net precip vs pan-evap rate that will get rid of say 1,2 or 3 feet of water per year just from evaporation, then you are in luck and can plan to incorporate hydrophylic, salt-tolerant grasses like Russian Rye and others that are local and which a yard and garden store can supply you to suck up effluent from your drainfield (referred to above as pipes with holes for drainage) and this will increase your successful design and prevent flooding crap into your yard or garden/lanscape plantings. If you do go with a concrete tank, keep it as shallow as possible given your house plumbing outlet(s) and be sure to put access risers (not shown on this schematic) over the access covers to allow for pumping, repairs and checking sludge accumulating in the bottom of the tank sections. You can also check the inlet and outlet baffle T's to see that they are still there and are secure. Another important design feature for wet areas especially, but all drainfields or leachbeds is a 4" outside-diameter alternating valve to let wastewater flow into a section of the drainage absorption area that is relatively dried out and "rested" This allows soil microorganisms that feed on nitrogen and other septage components, as well as bugs and worms that love to eat our nutrient rich waste, to gobble up the goodies that would otherwise both eventually seal the bottom and sidewalls of the wet parts of the drainage area, and also cut short the lifespan of your system. A typical strategy would be to alternate every 6 to 12 months, giving the micro-organisms time to work underground. The access covers can be made of concrete or plastic and must be child-proof. Bolts can be fitted to do this. The alternating valve should be several feet at least from the tank outlet and have a fitted cap at ground level, again childproof/;tamperproof, and installed so that you can still mow over if you have a lawn. Drawings for 4" alternating valves can be had by any engineer, or you can draw your own up and hand it to your contractor. It is not rocket science.

I wish you all good luck, good health, and a life without living in your own or someone else's Poop. Preserve your health and that of others and the environment we all share.

An informative breath of fresh air  about waste. Cudos!

[mudgirl]

On 5/2/2020 at 2:58 PM, oregontochapala said:

Harpic makes several products sans bleach that keep the toilet free of hard water build up. They are easy to use, get up under the rim, smell good, and aren't harsh like muriatic acid.

Read the label on your Harpic hard water stain removal product. The active ingredient is hydrochloric acid, which is the same thing as muriatic acid. Except muriatic acid is super cheap and Harpic charges extra for the fancy bottle 🙂