Jump to content
Chapala.com Webboard
Jim Bowie

ER Physician Drops Multiple COVID-19 Bombshells

Recommended Posts

It is true that some of the supposedly young and healthy also die from this.  It is suspected that may be genetically related and work is underway to test that connection.

Quote

Young, healthy people are dying of COVID-19 infections, even if most serious cases occur in the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. Now, scientists are looking to see if genes may explain why some people fall seriously ill while others show only mild symptoms, Science magazine reported.

Several ongoing projects aim to analyze and compare the DNA of those with severe COVID-19 infection to those with mild or asymptomatic cases. Differences may lie in genes that instruct human cells to build a receptor called ACE2, which the novel coronavirus relies on to enter cells, Science reported. Alternatively, it may be that genes that support the body's immune response to the virus differ between individuals, or that those with particular blood types carry protective genetic traits that shield them from illness, as suggested by a preliminary study from China

https://www.livescience.com/genes-for-covid19-coronavirus-severity.html

I don't agree with the idea this is just another flu.  It shares some of the same characteristics but is obviously more severe.  It is also not the black plague or even a shadow of what happened to the Indigenas in this country as a result of the smallpox and salmonella plagues brought by the Spanish.  That had a 90 percent mortality rate.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a statistic to wrap your head around:

54,000 American deaths in two months from Covid 19.  Total Americans dead in the 19 year Vietnam war was 58,000.

The Covid deaths in the US have doubled in 10 days.

About 2000 Americans dying daily now.  So Wednesday the death count should pass the Vietnam war.

And then we have a couple ER docs telling us that the flu is more dangerous?  Comic relief.

  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mainecoons said:

That's all fine and good but the numbers show very clearly this disease is not about the young and healthy.  Let me put it really simply for you.  Personal anecdotes do not negate large scale data and we have a ton of that and piling up rapidly.  

My personal anecdote is I have COPD and asthma and am 75 years old.  That puts me in the 10-20 percent or higher fatality bracket if I get this.  Am I being careful?  You bet.  Do I think that they should shut the world down for the young and healthy to try and protect me?

No.

 

I totally agree.  Anyone who disagrees with the mainstream government thinking is attacked on this board.  Many just can't handle any critical thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a tough call for sure.  But isn't the 'whole' idea in a pandemic that, if one just sits back and lets life go on as usual, w/75,000 people going to a football game or 125 folks cooped up in a restaurant or 200 inside a movie house etc etc etc... and then multiple that by the hundreds or thousands, that a virus like this is going to 'eat us all alive very rapidly', overwhelm all our hospitals and medical care capabilities and then what?

My understanding from the folks who are vastly more informed about what could happen than any of us might or profess to be, is that we HAVE to get ahead of the curve... have to keep the unthinkable from happening.  And yes, it is a HUGE problem for most of civilization to live like this for a while and for some folks to possibly lose what they have worked so hard to create. My heart goes out to each and every one of them. But what might their life look like if we did nothing?  

As far as Fauci and his credentials go.... I'm for SURE putting my money on his and his like brethren in a moment like this as opposed to these two guys in California no matter how well intentioned they might be! 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/25/2020 at 4:45 PM, Jreboll said:

Here’s the other side of the story. Let’s understand that Kern county only has one major city(Bakersfield), is mostly desert-like withnsparse population. If these doctors want to learn about pandemics they should go visit New York. And you my friend should be smart enough than to paste such a one-sided story.

https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/kern-county-public-health-does-not-concur-with-statements-made-by-accelerated-urgent-care-doctors

"As I was driving home late one Sunday evening through Bakersfield California/Listening to gospel music on the colored radio station/I heard the preacher say/You know you always have the lord by your side/And I was so pleased to be informed of this that I ran 20 red lights in his honor/Thank you Jesus, thank you Lord"    --Jagger/Richards

Seeing this, some people might say, "Fine, let the damn fool kill himself." On the other hand, some people might say, "No, call the cops. He might run over an old man too slow to get out of the way...or a baby held tight in her mother's arms...or crash into an ambulance rushing to save someone's life."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, RickS said:

It is a tough call for sure.  But isn't the 'whole' idea in a pandemic that, if one just sits back and lets life go on as usual, w/75,000 people going to a football game or 125 folks cooped up in a restaurant or 200 inside a movie house etc etc etc... and then multiple that by the hundreds or thousands, that a virus like this is going to 'eat us all alive very rapidly', overwhelm all our hospitals and medical care capabilities and then what?

My understanding from the folks who are vastly more informed about what could happen than any of us might or profess to be, is that we HAVE to get ahead of the curve... have to keep the unthinkable from happening.  And yes, it is a HUGE problem for most of civilization to live like this for a while and for some folks to possibly lose what they have worked so hard to create. My heart goes out to each and every one of them. But what might their life look like if we did nothing?  

As far as Fauci and his credentials go.... I'm for SURE putting my money on his and his like brethren in a moment like this as opposed to these two guys in California no matter how well intentioned they might be! 

Remember, the word pandemic refers to the degree of geographic spread, not the severity of the disease.  

I don't see anyone suggesting we should bring back large gatherings.  It is being proposed that small businesses that have few customers and workers at a time should be allowed to reopen with precautions.  That is much different than what you are using as examples.  Large gatherings are probably off the table until there is a vaccine and it is widely applied.

People who are well informed are also looking as the information as it develops and concluding it is possible for people to work and operate most businesses safely and that there is most definitely a steep and growing public health price in denying same.

Always remember that people who claimed to be well informed thought the earth was flat for quite some time.  More recently we had a bunch of experts telling us there was going to be a new ice age.  Then some more experts assured us Y2K was going to collapse the country.  One of the benefits of long life is watching how these predictions by experts don't turn out time and time again.  It helps to develop a healthy skepticism about experts.

I'm skeptical of anyone in D.C. particularly career bureaucrats, medical or not.  Fauci you may recall was convinced 200,000 people were going to die from CV by now.  The D.C. crowd has been constantly revising their models and predictions.  Of course I pay attention to what he has to say but not exclusively.  And we are now sending respirators and other supplies to other countries because the need is much less than projected.  IMO a huge error in both the U.S. and Europe was made in handling care homes where half the deaths have occurred.  Those places have become death traps.

At this stage of the game I place a lot of value in the experience of the people on the front lines.  D.C. needs to do more of that.  Like in a war, the best generals pay very close attention to what the troops are reporting from the field.

And I'll reiterate, the death rate among the younger and healthy is so low it simply does not justify locking them out of their jobs and businesses.  IMO the focus needs to shift to identifying the vulnerable and protecting them as best as possible while working with the rest to get back to work under safer conditions.

Mexico is a tough situation because so many are obese and diabetic and have the other factors which jack up the death rate.  Also so many homes here have extended families from the very young to the very old.  OTOH there is no social safety net so for the majority of the population if they don't work no one eats.  I wouldn't want to be in the position of making the calls on what to do here, that is for sure.

And finally I suspect almost everyone here has an independent income as we do.  I am trying to view this situation also from the perspective of someone who is living literally week to week on what they can earn.  For them, the threat of poverty is far more immediate that the threat of CV.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, the wild card is there is no good handle yet on the depth and breadth of the infection, both with or without symptoms, in the general population of almost everywhere.  We simply do not know the real size of the cohort and until that is know with some degree of statistical accuracy, it is impossible to compute actual illness and death rates for the total cohort.

At the speed this question is being addressed I'd expect we'll know a lot more within the next two months.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, alex45920 said:

"As I was driving home late one Sunday evening through Bakersfield California/Listening to gospel music on the colored radio station/I heard the preacher say/You know you always have the lord by your side/And I was so pleased to be informed of this that I ran 20 red lights in his honor/Thank you Jesus, thank you Lord"    --JaggWowwer/Richards

Seeing this, some people might say, "Fine, let the damn fool kill himself." On the other hand, some people might say, "No, call the cops. He might run over an old man too slow to get out of the way...or a baby held tight in her mother's arms...or crash into an ambulance rushing to save someone's life."

Wow Alex, that is about the coolest thing you have ever written, and there have been many others to choose from. Thank you.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Fauci you may recall was convinced 200,000 people were going to die from CV by now. 

And that may have been an accurate prediction had state governors and others around the world not brought in isolation and lockdown orders. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

And that may have been an accurate prediction had state governors and others around the world not brought in isolation and lockdown orders. 

You're referring to a post that was full of distortions, inaccuracies and misleading information. Dr. Fauci didn't make the prediction, he was relying on a study prepared at the University of Washington, not by Washington, D.C., insiders, as stated in the post. He was also clear in stating that the study predicted a range between 140,000 and 200,000 deaths. The authors of the study have since revised their figures downward, reflecting how seriously the population has responded to the covid crisis. The death toll keeps rising...and we still have a long way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Minor point, they really don't know why the death toll has dropped, they are ASSUMING it is because of the measures.  Yes, the main model used is from University of Washington and it has varied greatly.  It cannot be proven why the death rates are being revised downward.  BTW the most recent prediction from that model revises the numbers back upwards.  

Other than that, exactly what don't you like besides my opinion doesn't agree with yours?  You do remember the apocalyptic predictions I cited, yes?  They were real and they didn't pan out.

Also it is a widely cited fact the young and healthy haven't died in great numbers from this relative to other similar serious pandemic episodes.  To suggest otherwise is misleading and inaccurate.  Look it up.

I'll leave it to you all to research Dr. Fauci's hardly error free record.  It is never a good idea to listen to just one voice in matters like this, that was the point I was making.  The doctors in the OP represent another point of view and one from people who are in the field.  To me that has value as well.

I'll leave you with this little reminder that there is no free lunch with this lockdown.  It is particularly germane to Mexico

277096_image.jpg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Minor point, they really don't know why the death toll has dropped, they are ASSUMING it is because of the measures.  Yes, the main model used is from University of Washington and it has varied greatly.  It cannot be proven why the death rates are being revised downward.  BTW the most recent prediction from that model revises the numbers back upwards.  

Other than that, exactly what don't you like besides my opinion doesn't agree with yours?  You do remember the apocalyptic predictions I cited, yes?  They were real and they didn't pan out.

Also it is a widely cited fact the young and healthy haven't died in great numbers from this relative to other similar serious pandemic episodes.  To suggest otherwise is misleading and inaccurate.  Look it up.

I'll leave it to you all to research Dr. Fauci's hardly error free record.  It is never a good idea to listen to just one voice in matters like this, that was the point I was making.  The doctors in the OP represent another point of view and one from people who are in the field.  To me that has value as well.

[crickets]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, gimpychimp said:

Attacks have begun for sure. Hurts the original narrative.. Kinda reminds you of this Forum, no ? Time to shame those who venture to speak their own mind, contrary to the mob belief. :D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I have to agree these guys were pushing the envelope.  However this piece is full of attack language and this source is known to be pretty biased.  This report by these guys definitely falls into the anecdotal category.  You just can't draw the conclusions they have from walk in traffic in street clinics IMO.

There is a lot of more credible work going on now to determine if, in fact, the CV is much more prevalent in the population than has been thought.  As Ferret pointed out a big stumbling block is the weakness of the testing itself and the interference caused by things like people getting annual flu shots for some years.  We would have that interference problem since we have gotten those shots every year for at least the last 12.

As I said earlier, I really think it is going to come down to the fact the economic damage is rapidly becoming unbearable and that is going to force at least a partial end to these lockdowns.  They are hurting and killing people.  Our maid's husband has cancer he needs treated and IMSS won't do it because the facilities are preempted for CV.

This is the kind of lockdown that trades one cause of death for another.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris Hayes on MSNBC spent a segment on these guys tonight (Tuesday). He had epidemiologists on who did refute their position and questioned their integrity. The show will repeat tonight if anyone is interested.

 

 

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MSNBC?  LOL

Now there's a study in serious bias.  No thanks.  That's like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

Do yourself a BIG favor.  Turn off ALL the TV news.  All of it.

These guys have a professional opinion based on a limited experience base.  It is anecdotal, nothing more at this point.  The politicians are going to be forced by the economic damage to ease the quarantine.  Probably there will be more cases and more deaths among the vulnerable population.  It comes down to a trade off between a rock and a hard place. 

There will be more bursts of publicity from both sides of this question, each one assuring you they have the data.  

They don't. 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two doctors with sketchy data aren't equal to the other side of the question.  This goes through the data, from a left position given the source. https://www.alternet.org/2020/04/a-pair-of-doctors-just-proved-that-medical-training-doesnt-keep-you-from-being-amazingly-ignorant/

The issue has been politicized based on its nature.  Also it is being discussed as such here. I thought politics where verboten on this board. Why the exception for this issue?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meanwhile, Mexico just topped the world in new coronavirus cases and deaths today, by quite a lot. But Obrador assures us that it's totally under control. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

Meanwhile, Mexico just topped the world in new coronavirus cases and deaths today, by quite a lot. But Obrador assures us that it's totally under control. 

Not according to this... https://covid19info.live/

From where is your data coming?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That Worldometer site must be lagging, sorry- it shows no new cases or deaths for the US, and many other countries, at the moment. Which of course can't be right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...