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10 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

The Postal Service should have been put out of business long ago. A dinosaur sucking up government funds and run like a DMV, only worse. FREE ENTERPRISE WORKS!!! 

Free enterprise is fine unless the ability of voters to vote by mail is taken away.  Any suggestions as to how "free enterprise" can actually replace the Postal Service in real time, and in time for the next election?

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Gringo hombre The truth is unknow to everyone including the experts..  People who test positve are positive, people who test negative can be positve.. My brother just died of the virus in Fr

My family and many of my friends started prepping for something like this the first day that Obama took office. Being self reliant is very comforting. However, in all of our discussions and planning,

Do you really  believe that MX will let people starve to death?     With its ample resources, food supply, and AMLO running the country?   Highly unlikely. Better to keep everyone safe and provid

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1 minute ago, virgo lady said:

The article link actually proves the point that food is sufficient in Mexico and that it is simply the delivery systems and access for those who need it most that needs to be improved - which again, the article clearly shows was being recognized and worked on in 2016 under Pena Nieto.    That can only improve, under AMLO.    

So not naïve, perhaps you are simply not able to distill the info given, properly.

Have you ever hobnobbed with any of the many people in this country that live in cardboard sheds or not even that, access to water a rain puddle and I  could go on and you won't get it anyway being as comfortable as you are and only see and maybe even interact with  lower income persons within your purvue  .  Tepehau is the poorest barrio here but would be considered as privileged compare to a large segment of this country. Have you even ever ventured into Tepehau and graced those people  with some useful volunteering whilst interacting face to face?

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2 hours ago, Ferret said:

Pay to step up or pay more to shut down.

Yep, however unlike individuals who need to take care of their stuff or face the consequences, gov'ts have no real accountability.    These two images prove it.....

fram.png

pay-me-now-or-pay-me-a-lot-more-later-1-638.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Go Solar said:

Yep, however unlike individuals who need to take care of their stuff or face the consequences, gov'ts have no real accountability.    These two images prove it.....

fram.png

pay-me-now-or-pay-me-a-lot-more-later-1-638.jpg

In case you haven't noticed the horse has already left the barn and where it runs to, is of import now. Domestic horses don't get paid except for food and shelter, in any event.

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4 minutes ago, gringal said:

Free enterprise is fine unless the ability of voters to vote by mail is taken away.  Any suggestions as to how "free enterprise" can actually replace the Postal Service in real time, and in time for the next election?

Voting by mail is wide open to fraud, particularly in these highly divisive political times. But that is another story. To answer your question, how about the government putting this out to bid with UPS, FedEx or others. I am sure it would be a lot cheaper, more efficient and more free from political bias. 

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That would be fine, but I haven't heard any government entitly suggesting that, so far. Those of us who do not live in the U.S. MUST vote by mail and do not wish to be disenfranchised.

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18 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

Voting by mail is wide open to fraud, particularly in these highly divisive political times. But that is another story. To answer your question, how about the government putting this out to bid with UPS, FedEx or others. I am sure it would be a lot cheaper, more efficient and more free from political bias. 

Can you provide a source that backs up your opinion that "Voting by mail is wide open to fraud".  How many cases of mail voting fraud have been documented, because I can only find anecdotal evidence.  

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24 minutes ago, gringal said:

That would be fine, but I haven't heard any government entitly suggesting that, so far. Those of us who do not live in the U.S. MUST vote by mail and do not wish to be disenfranchised.

We vote absentee, timing our annual trips to facilitate this.  One of the smart things we did was to retain our membership in the Escapees RV club which provides excellent support for absentee voters who have no fixed address.

There is a great deal of difference between a mail in system for the relative handful outside of the country than for the country itself.  I used to do poll work in NM and the level of error in the voting rolls was major and we did catch people using the name of a deceased or moved using that to vote.  We knew that only a very small percentage of those doing so were actually caught at it.  Had those persons been required to show even a drivers license most of that would have been prevented.

Personally I think the Mexicans have this right too.  At the polls in person fraud is very difficult with a system of address tied in person voting with a photo ID used specifically for this purpose and obtained from the government at no charge.  There is no real need for a voter roll with this system, if a person corresponding to the photo on that ID shows up at the poll corresponding to the address on that ID, they are a registered voter. 

And despite the fact this system makes it harder to vote, the turnouts in Mexican elections are pretty impressive by world standards.

In a country like the U.S. where there are so many people and so many of those are moving around, maintaining an accurate voter roll is a near impossibility.

Where the fraud comes in Mexico is apparently the handling of the ballots after being cast.  The PRI had a very entrenched system for ballot fraud of this type that was blown away by the last election in most places.  They would go so far as to trash the actual ballots and substitute fake ones and so on.

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17 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

We vote absentee, timing our annual trips to facilitate this.  One of the smart things we did was to retain our membership in the Escapees RV club which provides excellent support for absentee voters who have no fixed address.

There is a great deal of difference between a mail in system for the relative handful outside of the country than for the country itself.  I used to do poll work in NM and the level of error in the voting rolls was major and we did catch people using the name of a deceased or moved using that to vote.  We knew that only a very small percentage of those doing so were actually caught at it.  Had those persons been required to show even a drivers license most of that would have been prevented.

Personally I think the Mexicans have this right too.  At the polls in person fraud is very difficult with a system of address tied in person voting with a photo ID used specifically for this purpose and obtained from the government at no charge.  There is no real need for a voter roll with this system, if a person corresponding to the photo on that ID shows up at the poll corresponding to the address on that ID, they are a registered voter. 

And despite the fact this system makes it harder to vote, the turnouts in Mexican elections are pretty impressive by world standards.

In a country like the U.S. where there are so many people and so many of those are moving around, maintaining an accurate voter roll is a near impossibility.

Where the fraud comes in Mexico is apparently the handling of the ballots after being cast.  The PRI had a very entrenched system for ballot fraud of this type that was blown away by the last election in most places.  They would go so far as to trash the actual ballots and substitute fake ones and so on.

Which would you say is more rampant in the U.S.? Voter fraud or voter suppression?

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14 minutes ago, gringal said:

That would be fine, but I haven't heard any government entitly suggesting that, so far. Those of us who do not live in the U.S. MUST vote by mail and do not wish to be disenfranchised.

That might not be true.  Depends on the state.  Some allow Voters Abroad to vote online or by FAX or email in addition to snail mail.  I voted in a March primary as a Voter Abroad, they emailed me the ballot.  I could return it by either FAX or snail mail; found plenty of free FAX services online and worked well.  

@Mainecoons While you are registered as an absentee voter (as were we when we had a US address/home), those without a US address can and should register as a Voter Abroad with their last state of residence or domicile.  It is Federal Law that US states accommodate Voters Abroad.  https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/voting.html

In my former state, when I was an absentee resident voter with a US address, my only option was to snail mail the ballot back.  Now, as a Voter Abroad, I can also FAX it back, which is far easier and faster.

You can register to vote as a Voter Abroad here as well as review your state's rules.  https://www.fvap.gov/guide

 

 

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4 minutes ago, All Day said:

Which would you say is more rampant? Voter fraud or voter suppression?

There is no voter suppression. Anyone with a valid government issued photo ID can vote. And don't go to the canard "some folks don't have, or have access to government ID". The government gives the public many and easy ways to obtain this. Are you saying that anyone that shows up at the polls can just sally up to a booth and vote? What is to prevent this same person sashaying to another location and voting again...and on and on....PLEEASE!!!!

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19 minutes ago, All Day said:

Which would you say is more rampant: Voter fraud or voter suppression?

Interesting question.  Several sources I read said the primary means internationally this happens is the government actively restricts access to national voter cards.  Nicaragua was cited as an example of that, in the same piece Mexico was cited as an example of a government that really facilitates getting voter ID.  Then there's this kind of voter suppression where armed thugs actually stand around the polls for the purpose of intimidating voters.  That's a favorite of both right wing military and communist dictatorships around the world.

Interest discussion of the international picture here.

https://www.icij.org/blog/2014/05/your-country-your-vote-rough-guide-global-voter-restrictions/

It would seem to me if one couldn't produce the simple ID required to vote one would be suppressed from a great number of activities.  Historically there is no question voter suppression in some local areas and states was practiced such as by limiting poll hours, limiting service in certain areas to create unreasonably long lines, that sort of thing.  I've seen nothing that suggests the showing of a basic ID such that one would need for everyday living suppresses anything at the polls.

Again, Mexico really is a gold standard in this matter, really facilitating the obtaining of voter ID and making them very easy to use on election day.  And it works, at least until the ballot boxes get handled at the end of the day and in much of the country apparently that has improved too.  There are  about 90 countries around the world with some sort of voter ID at the polls.

I think as long as a country or locality relies on voter rolls there is going to be a high error rate as we are seeing with the mail outs that have already been tried.  It's not about malicious intent, it is just impossible without a lot of time, effort and money to keep these rolls reasonably accurate.

We are really wandering off from the original topic here.  :D 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

 

Again, Mexico really is a gold standard in this matter, really facilitating the obtaining of voter ID and making them very easy to use on election day.  And it works, at least until the ballot boxes get handled at the end of the day and in much of the country apparently that has improved too.  There are  about 90 countries around the world with some sort of voter ID at the polls.

 

 

Hope this quote from you brings this discussion back to Mexico where it belongs. It's amazing how some people use just about anything to segue into the politics of the country they came from to be HERE. I'd like to discuss hockey a lot but I won't  in threads like this.

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Well frankly I think the way voting is handled in the U.S. is a hodgepodge and a mess.  It suffers from the same thing the handling of corona virus does there--just too many players with too many agendas.  Not conducive to being effective at either voting or controlling disease.

 

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1 minute ago, Mainecoons said:

Well frankly I think the way voting is handled in the U.S. is a hodgepodge and a mess.  It suffers from the same thing the handling of corona virus does there--just too many players with too many agendas.  Not conducive to being effective at either voting or controlling disease.

 

Mexico please. This is going awry into US politics.

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1 minute ago, crynoutloud said:

I think in Florida there was voter fraud a few years back and the last election voter suppression by 3 million votes.

FAKE, FAKE, FAKE NEWS!!!!! You THINK???...

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6 minutes ago, happyjillin said:

Mexico please. This is going awry into US politics.

Yes sir, duly noted.  I just find similarities between why neither are handled well there.  We seem to have no shortage of government players with the virus here either.

 

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Aren't you supposed to be beating the crap out of an opposing player with that stick?  I thought that was mainly why hockey fans go to the games, to see the fights.  :D 

That is a GREAT picture.  

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8 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Aren't you supposed to be beating the crap out of an opposing player with that stick?  I thought that was mainly why hockey fans go to the games, to see the fights.  :D 

That is a GREAT picture.  

When I needed to teach a lesson, I subtly speared or butt ended with my stick. Harder for the ref to see.

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1 hour ago, happyjillin said:

Have you ever hobnobbed with any of the many people in this country that live in cardboard sheds or not even that, access to water a rain puddle and I  could go on and you won't get it anyway being as comfortable as you are and only see and maybe even interact with  lower income persons within your purvue  .  Tepehau is the poorest barrio here but would be considered as privileged compare to a large segment of this country. Have you even ever ventured into Tepehau and graced those people  with some useful volunteering whilst interacting face to face?

1 - you are dissembling, the topic was food, not shelter, and you did nothing to disprove anything I mentioned about that.....

2 - yes, I know Tepehua and was involved in the Love in Action project to renovate and upgrade the building there with Rotary Ajijic and Int'l.

So bugger off.

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2 minutes ago, virgo lady said:

1 - you are dissembling, the topic was food, not shelter, and you did nothing to disprove anything I mentioned about that.....

2 - yes, I know Tepehua and was involved in the Love in Action project to renovate and upgrade the building there with Rotary Ajijic and Int'l.

So bugger off.

So you're not interested in everything that will affect the low end of the totem pole? You have no concept of what a a truly impoverished group of people lack  and probably never conversed with the residents and visited them in their cardboard shelter nor the really lucky ones who live in a place with a dirt floor and a curtain for their doorway. Yes the community building upgrade was a helpful endeavour for that community but you did something that  allowed you to keep your hands nice and clean by supplying some money-eh!

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