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From reported figures America now has more C-19 cases than China https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

On the surface doesn't that statistic say a lot about America's preparedness and management of C-19 given China has four times the population and not one of the best health care systems in the world.

It would be interesting to see comparisons based on percentage of infections/deaths to each countries population

SunFan

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Again, this is all about partisan US politics. It is mean spirited and offers no constructive ideas. I’m going to end this now.

For me, it's not so much who did what and when, or whether the reporting was the truth or fiction for convenience, but what the plans and actions are now. It's not just me, but plenty of Republic

No, that would be your dear POTUS. What is truly astounding about those with your mindset is that you rah rah about your patriotism and are so proud that you live in a democracy, yet advocate for the

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1 minute ago, Mainecoons said:

A little testy already this morning are we Maincoons?

I'm sure many countries are under-reporting for various reasons. But we have no better information at the moment.

SunFan

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4 minutes ago, SunFan said:

A little testy already this morning are we Maincoons?

I'm sure many countries are under-reporting for various reasons. But we have no better information at the moment.

SunFan

Not at all.  I've just learned not to believe communist dictatorships that have a long history of murdering their own people.   Did you bother to read the citation?

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In the thick of calamity, people finally understand that if your leaders have no regard for human life or liberty, no amount of money can save you. Entire families have been wiped out by the virus as more than 70 million people have been confined to their homes. Chinese officials have today reported 78,064 infections and 2,715 deaths, mostly in Hubei. But no one trusts the party’s figures. The only certainty about the numbers it releases is that they are the numbers it wants you to believe. In an effort to change the narrative after Li’s death, the party has called for a people’s war against the virus, and has urged journalists to replace “negative content” on social media with “touching stories from the frontline of combating the disease”. Having buried the truth about the calamity of the Cultural Revolution and other earlier crimes, the party is now dragging the nation back to its Maoist past.

And this:

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/26/21184238/coronavirus-china-authoritarian-system-democracy

Both of these sources are considered to the left of center.  Your own media is telling you the truth about these dictatorships.  

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So what you're saying is that, if the assumption is that the Chinese "doctored" their numbers and it was obviously so much worse than they reported, perhaps the world should have been better prepared to confront the virus?

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That China hid the truth and allowed people to travel and spread the virus is a matter of record now.  

As for the numbers, no one has a handle on the total number of cases simply because there is no capability to test the huge numbers required to do so.  It doesn't help either that China shipped Spain test kits that were 80 percent defective.

I'm suggesting in light of their deliberate attempts to conceal this disease from not only their own population but the rest of us it would be wise to treat anything they claim about it with strong skepticism.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

That China hid the truth and allowed people to travel and spread the virus is a matter of record now.  

As for the numbers, no one has a handle on the total number of cases simply because there is no capability to test the huge numbers required to do so.  It doesn't help either that China shipped Spain test kits that were 80 percent defective.

I'm suggesting in light of their deliberate attempts to conceal this disease from not only their own population but the rest of us it would be wise to treat anything they claim about it with strong skepticism.

 

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Please remember the words of Trump, for weeks, about this virus. The CDC also sent out faulty test kits.

Lots of blame to go around.

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Welcome to reality . totalitarian regimes such as China and Russia never tell the truth so nothing new.. But I would think that most countries have intelligence in China and they should have known something very bad was up  and yet the great leader of the free world did nothing about it.. so everyone is to blame not just China,

defective merchandise from China is not new either..

 

 

 

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There's sin and then there's sin.  Amazing that some here hate the U.S. so much they would take the word of a government that has murdered millions of its own people as some sort of gospel and use it to criticize those who are trying to save the rest of the world from that which said murderous government spread around it.

I remember the words of Trump.  All of them as his understanding evolved like ours has, not your selective remembrance.  Let's don't get started on that, you are unable to hear anything but your hatred of the man.  So be it. 

I repeat, it is physically impossible for any nation to test sufficient numbers to know really how many cases there are.  The best that can be done is modeling and statistical analysis to project a range of probabilities.

Free societies are much more likely to tell the truth than murderous dictatorships.

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1 minute ago, bmh said:

Welcome to reality . totalitarian regimes such as China and Russia never tell the truth so nothing new.. But I would think that most countries have intelligence in Chiana and they should have known something very bad was up  and yet the great leader of the free world did nothing about it.. so everyone is to blame not just China,

defective merchandise from China is not new either..

 

What exactly would you have had them do?  A travel ban was put on on January 20.  The same people that are suggesting not enough done criticized that as too much.  Make up your minds.

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It seems that if there was a travel ban people coming out of China should have been tested by all countries  or at least quarantined but nothng of the sort was done. Until recently leaders such as Trump and B Johnson were denying the seriousness of the virus. 

Just about every government was caught totally unprepared. 

 

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LOL. I wouldn't ever believe China's statistics BUT, assuming that they lied and knowing the precautions that they DID take (not soon enough btw) were pretty hardcore, it should have been a real wake up call. Travel ban was only for the Chinese... while the virus was taking hold elsewhere and spreading from east to west.

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19 minutes ago, bmh said:

It seems that if there was a travel ban people coming out of China should have been tested by all countries  or at least quarantined but nothng of the sort was done. Until recently leaders such as Trump and B Johnson were denying the seriousness of the virus. 

Just about every government was caught totally unprepared. 

 

The travel ban out of China was declared three days AFTER the U.S. travel ban.

The Italians didn't even recognize they had a problem until after this.  The first patient was discovered in Italy on February 22.  Spain didn't have a case until the end of the month.  The first cases were confirmed in the U.K. at the end of January.

Don't single out those two.  The belief was widespread and the thing wasn't even declared a pandemic until March 10.

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South Korea, literally at the doorstep of the outbreak, began to take action at the end of January.  AFTER the U.S. travel ban.

Now when I think of "tardy" there Ferret, I remember 2009.  :D 

All of this is easily confirmed with a little looking stuff up.

 

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Mean time in Mexico there was an article in the Informador were a Mexican CEO said that Mexicans will not die from the virus but rather from hunger. He was referring to the many Mexicans who survive  on what they earn daily and what would happen to them if they were locked out of work.

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In Italy they find out that a German who had travelled to China and lived in Italy had brought it  nto taly but who knows maybe it was the reverse😊

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Honey bee , this is no joke.. Artisans are calling me to tell me how bad the business is and Easter is going to be dismal which is their big season.. A couple of people have already called me telling me they have to go out and sell.. It is going to be bad. The indigenous artisans will survive better when they also farm but the ones that strictly live off artesania are going to be decimated. .. It is really sad.. Many people are living day to day and who knows what is gong to happen.

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bmh were I live in the Cascada neighborhood of Chapala I watch people go out early to buy what they need for breakfast then they leave to  try to make a few pesos. In the evening I watch them go out and buy what they need for dinner. Once those few pesos stop coming then it will be terrible.

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Mainecoons, you and I will never agree on this subject. The date that South Korea took action should have been the same as that of the U.S. Obviously it was spreading and South Korea has done an excellent job of keeping it in check. I stand by my opinion of the current administration's very tardy response and lack of preparedness.

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12 minutes ago, Ferret said:

Mainecoons, you and I will never agree on this subject. The date that South Korea took action should have been the same as that of the U.S. Obviously it was spreading and South Korea has done an excellent job of keeping it in check. I stand by my opinion of the current administration's very tardy response and lack of preparedness.

"Very tardy"--less than 3 weeks.

But waiting four months is only "tardy."

LOLOLOL!  Thanks for the good laugh this morning.

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For me, it's not so much who did what and when, or whether the reporting was the truth or fiction for convenience, but what the plans and actions are now.

It's not just me, but plenty of Republicans who find the most appalling idea is the U.S. president wanting to open up the country by Easter!  I just don't get it, and it's scary as hell.  I doubt that the majority of Americans over 65 are in favor of dying to boost the economy. 

Just as bad is the Mexican denial stance.  We're all in trouble; the leadership is in disarray in many places and yes, those who will suffer the worst are already at the bottom of the economic ladder. I can relate to the artisans since I am one, and the market as well as the selling opportunites have disappeared.  Fortunately, my survival doesn't depend on selling my wares.  If it did, I'd be going hungry.

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You are totally correct Gringal. Talk about a murderous dictatorship. Ordering people to go back to work, which is not possible constituionally, against the advice of every single scientific expert. I think that should be considered a war crime.

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Who has ordered people to go back to work, pray tell?

Where did you get the idea the U.S. government can order anything of the sort?  Are you confusing the U.S. with Canada, Chillin?  Can the latter do this because the former sure can't.

Our very proactive Jalisco governor is looking at and making similar statements about the need to revive the economy.  At what point will the death toll from not being able to work exceed the risk of Corona virus which kills very few of working age? 

Watch out for the fake news.  The TDS here is getting really wacky.

Ferret, the U.S. formed its corona virus task force on January 29, virtually the same time South Korea began its response.  Hardly "very tardy."  The timeline isn't a matter of opinion, it is a matter of record.  However if you want to hang onto the belief that a country of 21 times the land area and 6 times the population with 10 times as many governments to deal with can respond as quickly as an authoritarian small country well I guess you're going to do that no matter how illogical it is.

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