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I am a health care  professional. If you were ever in the situation 'in the front' lines you would understand  the grave concern  [ not hysteria ] we have when people willfully ignore health warnings

Our Delegado, Juan Ramon says many followed directions, some didn't didn't ---human nature, The police checked the malecon every 30 minutes and broke up any groups. Sunday was dead, Good adherence. Me

It's actually pretty hard at this point to separate the US response to the virus from politics, as the response has been politically, rather than medically driven. 

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Respectfully I don't see this person having the access to information required to make some of these statements.  Strikes me as a bit hysterical in tone and assumptions.  

Agree though the only proven counter attack at this point is social distancing.  Sure wish the Tapatios would have gotten this before they poured into town on Friday afternoon per usual, backing traffic all the way from centro to Walmart. 

We aren't sticking our noses out when that bunch is in town.

On the good news front the dual drug treatment once infected is looking better and better and knowledge as to how and when to use is growing very fast.

Not so good news is the economic damage world wide.

 

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8 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Respectfully I don't see this person having the access to information required to make some of these statements.  Strikes me as a bit hysterical in tone and assumptions.  

Agree though the only proven counter attack at this point is social distancing.  Sure wish the Tapatios would have gotten this before they poured into town on Friday afternoon per usual, backing traffic all the way from centro to Walmart. 

We aren't sticking our noses out when that bunch is in town.

On the good news front the dual drug treatment once infected is looking better and better and knowledge as to how and when to use is growing very fast.

Not so good news is the economic damage world wide.

 

Saturday and Sunday where empty so Tapatios pouring in is waay off. Fotos cross posted taken Sunday. You probably just saw a lot of local traffic involving people getting ready to shut down for the 5 days until Wednesday.

chapala madero empty.jpg

chapala empty.jpg

chapala vendors empty.jpg

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Our Delegado, Juan Ramon says many followed directions, some didn't didn't ---human nature, The police checked the malecon every 30 minutes and broke up any groups. Sunday was dead, Good adherence. Mexico may save itself.

 

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IMO Dr. Greenwald said nothing new and while intending good, simply created more stress and apprehension.

Listen to the CDC, WHO, Mayo Clinic and reputable sources.

Follow the original two basic rules, isolation and hand and general washing and good hygiene. 

People that know the risks and potential consequences of this pandemic, and knowingly ignore them,  them have no place in any society. 

Kill yourself? Fine. Endanger me or mine,  then the government should take some affirmative action, I don't know what, but it should be strict.

 

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52 minutes ago, Eric Blair said:

IMO Dr. Greenwald said nothing new and while intending good, simply created more stress and apprehension.

Listen to the CDC, WHO, Mayo Clinic and reputable sources.

Follow the original two basic rules, isolation and hand and general washing and good hygiene. 

People that know the risks and potential consequences of this pandemic, and knowingly ignore them,  them have no place in any society. 

Kill yourself? Fine. Endanger me or mine,  then the government should take some affirmative action, I don't know what, but it should be strict.

 

For once Eric, I totally agree with you. Spot on....

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Mainecoons  "Respectfully I don't see this person having the access to information required to make some of these statements.  Strikes me as a bit hysterical in tone and assumptions.  ".... He is on the front lines seeing these issues first hand and drawing these conclusion based on his evidence. The hysterical tone may simply be his fear based on what  he is experience and on his medical knowledge as an ER doctor. I agree that I didn't want to hear this since it opens less definite indicators of what to look for.

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He is "in the front lines" in one emergency room in one city.  Respectfully again I don't think he has the access to global information required to make some of the assertions and assumptions he has made.  The tone is definitely hysterical IMO.

I wonder how many people are going to die from the growing world wide economic collapse?  Billions depend on consumption and trade to live now.  The layoffs are exploding.  What will these people do when their money runs out?

 

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I am a health care  professional. If you were ever in the situation 'in the front' lines you would understand  the grave concern  [ not hysteria ] we have when people willfully ignore health warnings and put others in  danger, including those we expect to help us when we are sick.  To put it mildly, that pisses me off.

Look at Italy as an example..thus far 23 Doctors have died, and  approx.  4,824 health workers have been infected by coronavirus, and who knows how many of them will die,, how can hospitals absorb all those sick individuals, and  deicisions will  have to be made about who gets a ventilator, etc..

To be quite blunt:  You can always find a way to fix financial / economic problems, local and global.

You can not fix Dead !

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The economic outlook is grim in the U.S., to the point that for those adding to the huge homeless population with the lack of a safety net, "dead" may happen from factors other than disease.  However, disease will be particularly rampart in that group, for obvious reasons.

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49 minutes ago, Jackie said:

I am a health care  professional. If you were ever in the situation 'in the front' lines you would understand  the grave concern  [ not hysteria ] we have when people willfully ignore health warnings and put others in  danger, including those we expect to help us when we are sick.  To put it mildly, that pisses me off.

Look at Italy as an example..thus far 23 Doctors have died, and  approx.  4,824 health workers have been infected by coronavirus, and who knows how many of them will die,, how can hospitals absorb all those sick individuals, and  deicisions will  have to be made about who gets a ventilator, etc..

To be quite blunt:  You can always find a way to fix financial / economic problems, local and global.

You can not fix Dead !

Do you recall how long it took to fix the Great Depression?  Do you remember what finally ended it?  That's right WWII.

There is a great deal of information out there as to why Italy and to a lesser degree Spain are atypical.  I understand grave concern, I think some of the languaging and tone in this piece borders on hysterical.  I pay a lot more attention to the medical professionals who are constantly receiving and evaluating the global situation than someone working in an emergency room in one city in Canada.  That's my choice.

And Italy has apparently already decided no one over 60 gets a ventilator.  

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Here are 2 great article to give you perspective on this issue.   Living in Mexico, we have to realize that the people here do not have any sort of social "safety net" as is taken for granted up north.  The people of the USA will get at least some token crumbs tossed to them for survival as a stimulus package favoring large corporations over the every day working people is in the works.  What will the Mexicans do?  For decades, their social safety net has been to migrate to the USA to work, not get on welfare.  Most of them send money home to their families in MX.  Well, that is shrinking too.  

For all the great wealth in the USA, the official policies have been too little and too late.  State governors have had to take command over what should be a federal issue affecting the whole country, some places more.  We are Sheltering in Place to stay ahead of the curve of infections and deaths, not behind it.  If this all blows over and turns out to be "exaggerated" then we can all breath a huge collective sigh of relief.  Better than dying or burying many, many dead.   I feel that some people have such a hard time comprehending these harsh realities that they cling to lies, conspiracy theories, or false optimism instead of dealing the the problems head on.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3076420/coronavirus-why-are-so-many-more-people-dying-italy-germany

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/17/hello-italy-your-future-is-grimmer-than-you-think/

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Creating an economic collapse may not have been the best idea. The Government thinks they can control everything but they might find out that once they pushed the economy over the cliff it will not be as easy as they think bringing it back. Right now they are trying to prevent bankruptcy in the big companies but it could be an avalanche starting with the small companies and working up.

Most deaths are from old timers who are not working anyway. Like Mainecoons says why collapse the whole economy?  

IN ITALY: The national health institute said the average age of those who have died was 81, with the majority suffering from underlying health problems. An estimated 72% of all those who have died were men.

According to government data, 4.25% of individuals confirmed to have the coronavirus in Italy have died, the highest rate in the world.

The country has one of the world's oldest populations.

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A month and a half before the WHO declared a pandemic the U.S. was implementing travel restrictions from the source of the outbreak, China, and before the end of January there was a U.S. medical task force in place and a travel ban in place.  Bear in mind the Chinese didn't even admit they had a problem until late December and didn't implement travel restrictions until 3 days after the U.S. did.

I invite you to contrast this with the H1N1 response that didn't come for months after that epidemic killed thousands.  To characterize a response that has been among the fastest and largest in the world as too little too late is hardly correct unless you are referring to China  Back in early February no one really understood how bad this was going to get.  The U.S. response now is massive and international in scope.

Now if you look at the proposed economic package it allocates 28 percent for business relief mainly in the form of loans and targeting at businesses employing less than 500 persons.  some 50 billion to keep the airlines from collapsing is the biggest single piece of the business pie.  You do understand this is all about keeping people working and the airlines we all depend on in the air, yes?  The bill envisions $2400 in direct payment to couples and $500 for kids.  Comes to over $300 billion.

It's not perfect but to characterize it as throwing a few crumbs while favoring large corporations is not correct.  Note the big businesses are subject to profit sharing to recoup the money after the crisis passes.   Obviously since none of this has passed we are not sure what the final form will be.  Probably more emphasis on small business and individuals would be my guess.  But remember it is the big businesses that pay the best benefits.  They account for about 1 percent of total businesses but create about half of all jobs.

I don't see any other nation doing as much to try and avert a total economic collapse leading to another great depression.  If you think this can't happen, study up on the last one, it took a lot less to push the world over the edge that what is going on now.  The world's economic system is teetering on edge and I guarantee you with this number of people on the planet now, a real collapse will kill far more than any virus with a 98-99 percent survival rate will.

 

 

 

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Pretty much everyone here (excluding me) is right on. If and until there is a cure, vaccine, and adequate respirators, I feel safer here.

1 hour ago, ezpz said:

This just in.  it's so bad in Italy that people over 60 in the hospitals with CV are being left to die while younger people get treatment.  There is just not enough to go around.  Is that what we want?

https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856

 

It's called Triage. Everyone in the medical field or has watched TV medical shows, knows that in a large disaster situation with limited resources/people, victims are "raked" according to not just their needs, but their chances of survival. Those with a better chance of survival, are given priority.

Anyone with a personal comment about/to me, please PM me.

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This just in from Dallas, TX.  Yes I know, this website has a famous right wing bias, but they are correctly depicting what is happening as Dallas gets a Shelter In Place order from a judge.  The charts and graphs should really sober you up.  Without taking precautions, the death rate would soar.  It already has soared in places that have taken the precautions!   Which is worse?  An economic depression or and economic depression with millions of people dying everywhere?

About the Big Businesses, i.e., major corporations - they already got an immense government handout via Tax Cuts For The Rich which did not trickle down to the rest of the economy because they were busy playing casino games with their new riches via the stock market.  They squandered their own riches!  Now that game is up.  They can get free loans.  No more government handouts to already wealthy businesses/CEOs.  Better that government funding gets funneled directly to the working people via generous unemployment and other benefits, plus help for small businesses.  That is what will help people survive!

https://www.breitbart.com/border/2020/03/22/dallas-county-judge-model-predicts-5000-texas-covid-19-deaths-with-shelter-in-place-model-nearly-600k-without/

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9 minutes ago, Eric Blair said:

Pretty much everyone here (excluding me) is right on. If and until there is a cure, vaccine, and adequate respirators, I feel safer here.

It's called Triage. Everyone in the medical field or has watched TV medical shows, knows that in a large disaster situation with limited resources/people, victims are "raked" according to not just their needs, but their chances of survival. Those with a better chance of survival, are given priority.

Anyone with a personal comment about/to me, please PM me.

Yes, I understand perfectly, you are right.  It needs to be pointed out that things have gotten to this disastrous point in other countries even after taking precautions!  This should sober up those who still think this whole thing is media hype or that it will just blow over soon.

Hindsight is cheap.  Foresight is golden.

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You're wrong when you say back at the first of February nobody knew how bad this was going to get. South Korea and the US had their first reported cases on the same day in January. Take a look at the response and results so far from each country and then tell me again that the US acted as swiftly as possible.

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South Korea, a small country right next to China and a population that pretty much does as they are told.  Their response began on January 20.  Travel ban began on January 22 one day before the U.S. 

South Korea:  Population 51.5 million, land area 100,210 square kilometers.  Basically one government runs the country with some local governments.  Only 226 other governments.

U.S:  Population 328,000,000, land area 9,834,000 square kilometers.  Fifty big state governments.  Country governments, city governments, townships.  38,799 governments and 51,296 special districts.

Apples and oranges anyone?  Monday morning quarterbacking sure is fun.

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7 minutes ago, elevator said:

South Korea and the US had their first reported cases on the same day. take a look at the response and results so far from each country and then tell me again that the US acted as swiftly as possible.

US population : 327.2 million

SK population:   51.5 million

Ratio: 15.74%

US virus deaths: 458

Expected SK deaths @ 15.74% ratio:  72

Actual SK virus deaths:  111

Put another way:

Rate of deaths in US: 458 / 327.2 million = .000139975%

Rate of death in SK:  111 / 51.5 million    = .000215533%

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I don't hear much about the two different strains, apparently Italy has the more aggresive/deadly one, I think it is type L, whereas the US has the S strain I believe so hopefully the percentage of fatalities will be lower

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2 minutes ago, Bisbee Gal said:

US population : 327.2 million

SK population:   51.5 million

Ratio: 15.74%

US virus deaths: 458

Expected SK deaths @ 15.74% ratio:  72

Actual SK virus deaths:  111

Put another way:

Rate of deaths in US: 458 / 327.2 million = .000139975%

Rate of death in SK:  111 / 51.5 million    = .000215533%

The high population density of SK didn't help things on the one hand but on the other they could get extremely high compliance on social distancing very fast.  

 

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2 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Do you recall how long it took to fix the Great Depression?  Do you remember what finally ended it?  That's right WWII.

There is a great deal of information out there as to why Italy and to a lesser degree Spain are atypical.  I understand grave concern, I think some of the languaging and tone in this piece borders on hysterical.  I pay a lot more attention to the medical professionals who are constantly receiving and evaluating the global situation than someone working in an emergency room in one city in Canada.  That's my choice.

And Italy has apparently already decided no one over 60 gets a ventilator.  

THAT IS BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE ANYMORE AVAILABLE HELEN!

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