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happyjillin

The height of hypocrazy!

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Plastic bag ban.  Found this on facebook: "So let me get this straight. I go to the grocery store and buy a lb. of sliced ham wrapped in plastic, a loaf of bread in a plastic bag, a gallon of milk in a plastic jug, a pack of napkins wrapped in plastic, a Greek salad in a plastic container, a plastic bottle of mustard and a plastic bottle of ketchup, and they won't give me a plastic bag to carry it home because the plastic bag is bad for the environment?"

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I cannot agree more. Plastic bags and straws are great publicity optics, that's all. It cannot be considered a serious attempt until the items you describe, plus the plastic containers almost every piece of electronic accessory comes in, and the pill bottles, shampoos, hairbrushes, and automotive parts and products... the list is truly endless, isn't it... are dealt with. Also, give me a way to pick up dog poop and get rid of kitty litter.

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Op Ed in today's WSJ about plastic bags not taking up a lot of room in landfills, paper and other biodegradable items give off greenhouse gasses as they decompose and most plastic in the oceans comes from Asia and Africa where the people dump it into the rivers. The US sends lots of recycle plastics to Asia and lots of it ends up in rivers if they can't use it.

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I buy the poop bags at Friends of the Animals beside Ladron's Clinic... https://earthrated.com/

The green ones 120 bags in 8 rolls. They are degradable at 18 month. They don't sell the truly compostable bags... yet.

Also Kudos to SuperLake... they are providing biodegradable plastic bags for their customers... and they're strong too.

 

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1 hour ago, tomgates said:

Op Ed in today's WSJ about plastic bags not taking up a lot of room in landfills, paper and other biodegradable items give off greenhouse gasses as they decompose and most plastic in the oceans comes from Asia and Africa where the people dump it into the rivers. The US sends lots of recycle plastics to Asia and lots of it ends up in rivers if they can't use it.

Congratulations on your upcoming move!

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One of the most comprehensive research papers on the environmental impact of bags, published in 2007 by an Australian state government agency, found that paper bags have a higher carbon footprint than plastic. That’s primarily because more energy is required to produce and transport paper bags.

But what if reusable bags aren’t good either? As the Australian study noted, a cotton bag has major environmental impacts of its own.

“Eat one less meat dish a week—that’s what will have a real impact on the environment.”

https://www.wired.com/2016/06/banning-plastic-bags-great-world-right-not-fast/

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All this damned plastic packaging and single use crap is the problem.  I can remember when we all did just fine without it and could take our beverage containers back to the store and swap for full ones too.  Now throw in all this junk you buy that lasts a couple years, craps out and can't be fixed.

The OP is right, this plastic bag whining is a joke.  The plastic trash problem is far, far larger.

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7 hours ago, happyjillin said:

Plastic bag ban.  Found this on facebook: "So let me get this straight. I go to the grocery store and buy a lb. of sliced ham wrapped in plastic, a loaf of bread in a plastic bag, a gallon of milk in a plastic jug, a pack of napkins wrapped in plastic, a Greek salad in a plastic container, a plastic bottle of mustard and a plastic bottle of ketchup, and they won't give me a plastic bag to carry it home because the plastic bag is bad for the environment?"

It is not hypocritical to ban plastic bags. This poorly written criticism is completely excluding recycling which invalidates his premise. Comparing all plastic bags as equal to recyclable plastic containers that can be recycled and used for some other purpose and not go to landfills and plastic bags that go directly to landfills isn't correct. IMO

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How can you assume that those containers are recyclable? I can assure you, the vast majority are not. Not yet While it may not be hypocritical to ban plastic bags, it is hypocritical to assume even for one brief parsec of time that it is an important step. No, sir.

But your statement is obfuscating the topic here. It's a false equivalency. You are adding a facet that does not belong or compare in any way to the original statement.

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16 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

How can you assume that those containers are recyclable? I can assure you, the vast majority are not. Not yet While it may not be hypocritical to ban plastic bags, it is hypocritical to assume even for one brief parsec of time that it is an important step. No, sir.

But your statement is obfuscating the topic here. It's a false equivalency. You are adding a facet that does not belong or compare in any way to the original statement.

I disagree with you. It belongs and is part of the plastic use concern. Just because you don't think so isn't important.

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Wow, talk about completely missing the point. Oh, but thanks for the insult to my intelligence. What an Ace.

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Banning plastic shopping bags is neither that important, considering all the other plastic packaging everywhere, nor is it hypocritical. Everything can't be changed overnight, all at once. It's just a small step. There's nothing wrong with small steps towards a more sustainable environment.

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9 hours ago, AngusMactavish said:

Bags-Billboard.png

Sure!!! What is the matter with bringing your own reusable bag??  They hardly cost anything. I even keep a small cooler in the car. I purchased reusable metal straws  and carry a medium container in case I have left overs at a restaurant. If I forget my bags, I just do not have my purchase bagged and bag it when I get to my car. Admittedly this would be difficult if one uses a bus.  Just do not understand why there is so much resistance..       I will admit, I do not know where the trash goes but I am doing what I can.   In Michigan we had bottle and can refund.   It certainly helped keep the streets cleaner.

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7 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Banning plastic shopping bags is neither that important, considering all the other plastic packaging everywhere, nor is it hypocritical. Everything can't be changed overnight, all at once. It's just a small step. There's nothing wrong with small steps towards a more sustainable environment.

Agree as long as small steps aren't viewed as any serious solution to the current plastic plague on this planet.

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I don't think there is any resistance but banning isn't the solution either. I use my own bags for the big shopping and refuse a bag for a small item I might buy elsewhere. But we still need bags for garbage and poop collection because that also helps protect the health of sanitation workers. If the bags are biodegradable within a year then that would be a good compromise. I've been recycling since 1990 but recycling properly means that the items be clean (also for the health of recyclers)... and I don't want to waste water to do that either. It's a conundrum. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

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Ferret is exactly right. Every bit helps. But the point of the OP was that banning plastic bags while doing almost nothing else is simply a panacea for the public. It is not even a good start. I forgot about another obvious call: the plastic bags that are all over every grocery store's fruit and vegetable areas. When our local WalMart overreacted a few months ago and did away with shopping bags (for a minute), they didn't do away with all those.

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2 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

Ferret is exactly right. Every bit helps. But the point of the OP was that banning plastic bags while doing almost nothing else is simply a panacea for the public. It is not even a good start. I forgot about another obvious call: the plastic bags that are all over every grocery store's fruit and vegetable areas. When our local WalMart overreacted a few months ago and did away with shopping bags (for a minute), they didn't do away with all those.

 

https://www.google.com.mx/amp/s/www.informador.mx/amp/economia/Vidrio-el-residuo-rezagado-en-el-reciclaje-en-Mexico--20191112-0016.html

Google Translation:

"ECONOMY

Glass, the waste lagging in recycling in Mexico

About 56 percent of scrapped paper and cardboard are recycled, 50 percent in plastics, but only 12 percent of glass

The reporter

Published on 11/12/2019 - 02:28 HS

Senators signed on October 22 a new law initiative for the integral management of waste to order the disposal of waste and promote recycling in Mexico with the help of the private initiative.

The recycling market in Mexico is worth more than 3 billion dollars, according to estimates from the National Association of Plastic Industries (Anipac).

Small and medium-sized businesses live from this market, however much of the business is sustained in the recovery of plastic and aluminum, which leaves glass aside.

About 14.9 million tons of solid waste are produced annually in Mexico that can be reused, according to figures from the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources (Semarnat), of which 39 percent corresponds to paper, cardboard and the like, 30.7 percent to plastics and 16.6 percent to glass.

Information from different business chambers and the same agency indicate that about 56 percent of waste paper and cardboard is recycled, 50 percent in plastics, but only 12 percent of glass.

"This is because of the low cost that recyclers offer for this material, and it is because there is little interest in glass producers to give it a second life," said José Luis Pérez González, general director of Cerrando el Ciclo, a company dedicated to recycling glass bottles.

According to the firm Supraciclaje, the average price for which aluminum is paid (depending on its presentation) is 22 pesos per kilo, 7.16 pesos per kilo of PET, 47 cents per kilo of paper or cardboard (depending on the type), but Only 10 cents a kilo of glass.

“Some producers of beverages that use PET created associations to recover the material they use from packaging, but in the case of glass, the same companies ignore the product because they consider it to be degraded and sand is made, but they do not take into account the time it takes, ”added José Luis Pérez González.

Grupo Modelo is one of the few companies that recently announced projects for glass recycling, as it signed an agreement with Walmart so that the flow of its consumers nationwide can recycle their glass containers more easily.

"We are working every day so that the number of bars and restaurants allied to the recycling program grows, calculating that these efforts can reach hundreds of establishments across the country in the next two years," said Gabriel Maia, director of packaging and Sustainability of Grupo Modelo.

The government reported that in Mexico more than 44 million tons of total waste are generated annually (including organic and hazardous) and this number is expected to reach 65 million by 2030, of which glass could represent 6 percent.

Mexico City, where it recovers most

Mexico City (CDMX) is where the recovery and reuse of glass in the country is most reported.

Data from the Ministry of Environment (Sedema) of the capital of the country, detail that 62.61 tons of this waste are generated per day in the CDMX, of which 75.4 percent is re-used, well above the national figure.

“The waste that enters the selection plants is transported in bands to platforms, where the manual recovery of all the materials that are susceptible to being valued or used, such as pet, cardboard, paper, glass, metals, among others, is carried out. . The CDMX has two selection plants: Santa Catarina and San Juan de Aragón ”, details Sedema.

Much of this material is recovered through the “Barter Market”, a project with which the capital government exchanges recyclable garbage from citizens for locally produced food.

In 2018 alone, they collected 37.64 tons of glass, much higher than 20.20 tons of PET and 20.18 tons of paper.

“It is an opportunity for citizens to learn to separate, collect and above all, to understand about the recovery of waste,” describes Sedema."

Where I live recycling has been ongoing for a decade. If you are only talking about where you live it is not relative and definately not the norn. and by stating: " while doing almost nothing else is simply a panacea for the public. It is not even a good start."  and therefore "not important" concerning the federal, state, and municipal ban on plastic bags just because of your ignorance regarding the subject.

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Walmart U.S.A. has announced they will be saving $60 million per year by not providing free bags. That is a sound business decision and will be a major influence.

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