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INSABI replaces Seguro Popular + alternative, affordable medical facilities in Guadalajara

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3 hours ago, CHILLIN said:

I have posted before, this is an old principle "do unto others as you would have them do onto you". In Canada, under a system I paid into with taxes for over 60 years, immigrants, refugees, (legal or illegal) and workers from Mexico are given free medical and free education. There are a few crackpots who moan about this but the vast majority of Canadians are proud of this nation defining role. There are far more Mexicans enjoying their new life in Canada than ex- Canadians in Mexico. In the U.S.A. ,in another nation defining role, immigrants from Mexico, or any brown country, are treated with fear and disdain. Whole families are forever split up and destroyed. I don't know how Mexicans are medically treated, but I mentioned that the nearest Seguro Popular hospital charges 16,000 pesos for a caesarian delivery, the average cost in the U.S. is $50,000 U.S. No wonder the population is declining there and the U.S. leads the world in medical related personal bankruptcies. Also relying on a U.S. based insurer while living in Mexico is not good idea. They are genetically prone and trained to just say no as soon as a claim hits their desk. Then there is not a darn thing you can do about it.

And yet they are beating down the door and jumping the border voting with their feet to get into the U.S.  And we have a bunch of Canadians down here getting health care rather than wait months on end for same in your Canadian paradise.  Now why do you suppose they are doing that?

Sure doesn't fit very well with your anti-American rant.  

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Don't know where you are receiving your disinformation about Canadian healthcare. Canada is even accepting royal refugees now. Canada is attracting world class doctors now, the ones who left to work in the U.S. or Arab countries only last a couple of years, enough to buy a house in Canada.

 

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Just now, CHILLIN said:

Don't know where you are receiving your disinformation about Canadian healthcare. Canada is even accepting royal refugees now. Canada is attracting world class doctors now, the ones who left to work in the U.S. or Arab countries only last a couple of years, enough to buy a house in Canada.

 

Chillin, are there any "private" doctors, hospitals or clinics etc in Canada...or only the State run system... for example if you wish to go "private" and pay you can find a service?

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2 minutes ago, lakeside7 said:

Chillin, are there any "private" doctors, hospitals or clinics etc in Canada...or only the State run system... for example if you wish to go "private" and pay you can find a service?

I have Canadian friends who travel to the US and pay for healthcare when they are told to wait in Canada because their condition is not "urgent"

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15 hours ago, lakeside7 said:

Chillin, are there any "private" doctors, hospitals or clinics etc in Canada...or only the State run system... for example if you wish to go "private" and pay you can find a service?

Yes, there are also private doctors and clinics in Canada. You pay but faster service usually. Here is one  https://www.centrichealthsurgical.com/location/vancouver/

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Just now, Mostlylost said:

I have Canadian friends who travel to the US and pay for healthcare when they are told to wait in Canada because their condition is not "urgent"

Some months ago I first heard of "Medical Brokers".

Company's  who will find you "good deals" in American hospitals, when you do not have Medicare or insurance.They  work with many Canadians looking for a quick fix and cash.

I guess they may work with hospitals in Mexico but I have only seen referrals to America  hospitals

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Just now, cedros said:

Yes, there are also private doctors and clinics in Canada. You pay but faster service usually.

Cedros my reply ref "Medical Brokers" seem's to contradict your observations...maybe there are limited private hospitals offering limited procedures...or not

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1 hour ago, Mainecoons said:

And yet they are beating down the door and jumping the border voting with their feet to get into the U.S.  And we have a bunch of Canadians down here getting health care rather than wait months on end for same in your Canadian paradise.  Now why do you suppose they are doing that?

Sure doesn't fit very well with your anti-American rant.  

Unfortunately there seems to be a small (i hope) clique of anti U.S. ranters here. They simply are ill informed bigots who do not have a clue. I can point to many current realities including record clean air and water there, the worlds best economy (by far), an enviable record (at least now) of race and religion equality and yes the most yearly acceptance of immigrants of any country. If these folks would read history they would also know the the US basically saved Europe and much of Asia during the First World War and saved the entire world ending the Second WW. I would venture to say that we would all be speaking German now if not for that. Health care in the US is universally accepted as first class. Without going the Socialist route, most Americans are happy with their employer provided health insurance and private providers. It is also against the law there for a hospital to turn away anyone including illegals. Is it perfect? of course not but compared to most (including Canada) it's enviable throughout the world.  

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1 hour ago, lakeside7 said:

Cedros my reply ref "Medical Brokers" seem's to contradict your observations...maybe there are limited private hospitals offering limited procedures...or not

No it doesn't. Recheck your observations.

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https://politica.expansion.mx/congreso/2020/01/14/pan-eliminar-cuotas-y-ampliar-cobertura-sistema-de-salud

Google Translation:

"The PAN proposes to eliminate quotas and expand coverage of the health system

Senator Kenia López Rabadán said that if you want true and free universal access to health services, these changes to the law are required.

Mar 14 January 2020 03:35 PM

Senators Kenia López, Alejandra Reynoso, Xóchitl Gálvez and Guadalupe Murguía explained their initiative to modify the General Health Law. (PAN Parliamentary Group)

Melissa Galván

@lameligalvan

The bench of the National Action Party (PAN) in the Senate presented an initiative to reshape the General Law of Saludante the criticisms that have been generated at the start of operations of the National Institute of Health and Wellness (Insabi).

In conference, Senator Kenia López Rabadán explained on Tuesday that the proposal seeks that, "without simulations", the quotas for access to health be eliminated from the law and that the gratuity reaches users of third level services ( specialties).

The initiative proposes to reform articles 36 and 77 bis 1 of the General Health Law, amended in November 2019 to eliminate Popular Insurance and give way to Insabi.

Yes we want free, total health, and for that we need to modify the law. "

Kenya López Rabadán

Article 36 of the legislation currently establishes the payment of "recovery fees", taking into account the cost of services and the socio-economic conditions of the user.

When the reform was approved in November, the Morena parliamentary group - most in the Senate - said that this guaranteed "universal and free access to health."

But, according to the PAN, in fact it is not so, so the bench will seek to effectively eliminate the payment of these fees for Insabi users.

"To be congruent with what even the federal Executive (Andrés Manuel López Obrador) has said that there will be no charge in the health service, today the law clearly establishes them," said López Rabadán.

Article 77 bis 1 of the General Health Law establishes gratuity for users, but only in the first and second level of care: external consultation and hospitalization for basic specialties internal medicine, general surgery, gynecoobstetrics, pediatrics and geriatrics .

We recommend: The PAN asks to keep Seguro Popular and PRI accuses "mirage" in Insabi

With its proposal, the PAN will seek free care to reach third level patients, which is of specialties for, for example, the treatment of chronic diseases such as cancer.

"These are the votes of the PAN so that the quotas are eliminated and then, indeed, health is free, and that this gratuitousness is extended to the third level (of attention)," said the senator."

With legal provisions the new Health Law it is not free for level 3 patients as AMLO keeps saying. The new Health Law needs to be modified to include many health conditions that as of now will cost patients recieving them and are expensive as these are serious illnesses and costly treatments at specialized hospitals.

How in the World can politicians and Federal Secretaries etc. in charge of providing the population with socialized medicine as a right in the constitution think their new National Health Plan and the laws they passed to institutionalize the INSABI is "free"?  

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https://www.google.com.mx/amp/s/politica.expansion.mx/mexico/2020/01/02/el-insabi-arranco-operaciones-este-1-de-enero-esto-es-lo-que-debes-saber%3f_amp=true

Google Translation:

" “It was a first step to say free medical care and medications. Where? In rural medical units, health centers, public hospitals, ”López Obrador said Thursday at the National Palace.“That has to do with the fact that there are medicines in the health centers, in the regional medical units, in the hospitals, which are not going to lack medicines; (it has to do with) that there are doctors, specialists, it has to do with having spaces, enough beds, it has to do with the attention that is offered to all citizens, ”said the president.

Additionally, he commented that work is being done so that the health sector has all the resources and all the necessary budget to function properly. Therefore, this year the budget of the health sector is increased by 40,000 million pesos, which, according to the reform approved last November, come from the catastrophic expenses fund of the Popular Insurance."

The 2019 underfunded Seguro Popular which had it's budget cut almost 30 percent from 2018 has a catastrophic expense fund which is not to be touched except for treatment for children under 18 years old cancer patients and organ transplants - some other life saving treatments. AMLO is raiding some of the fund to add 40 million pesos to INSABI instead of tax money in the matching Seguro Populars 2019 budget and now + 40 million. They might have enough to pay for what the Seguro Popular paid for in 2018 and some money left over because the Seguro Popular covered all 3 levels of health care not just level 1 and level 2 care. 

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"The PAN proposes...."...."Senator Kenia López Rabadán explained on Tuesday that the proposal seeks that, "without simulations"...The initiative proposes to reform articles 36 and 77 bis 1 of the General Health Law..."To be congruent with what even the federal Executive (Andrés Manuel López Obrador) has said that there will be no charge in the health service, today the law clearly establishes them," said López Rabadán....

Blab, blab, blob, blather...and I only got through half of this guy Alan's first post above. Most of this is political drivel and grandstanding such as you would get on C-span in the US mixed with a writers commentary of who knows what persuasion. Maybe this would be of interest to a dedicated Mexican voter, but I doubt there are many of those on this board. As I said before, lets just "chill out" regarding this since there is nothing that 99% of us here can do anyway. What a wast of time and space. 

 

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4 hours ago, gringohombre said:

 

"The PAN proposes...."...."Senator Kenia López Rabadán explained on Tuesday that the proposal seeks that, "without simulations"...The initiative proposes to reform articles 36 and 77 bis 1 of the General Health Law..."To be congruent with what even the federal Executive (Andrés Manuel López Obrador) has said that there will be no charge in the health service, today the law clearly establishes them," said López Rabadán....

Blab, blab, blob, blather...and I only got through half of this guy Alan's first post above. Most of this is political drivel and grandstanding such as you would get on C-span in the US mixed with a writers commentary of who knows what persuasion. Maybe this would be of interest to a dedicated Mexican voter, but I doubt there are many of those on this board. As I said before, lets just "chill out" regarding this since there is nothing that 99% of us here can do anyway. What a wast of time and space. 

 

Too bad if real news quoted from the Chamber of Deputies [it was showing video of her addressing the Deputies on this important  proposal on national TV news this week] is above your level of comprehension about the health plan you actually use here in Mexico.

Maybe others using "your" health plan [INSABI] can actually understand they are only getting minor to intermediate health illnesses treated for free and will have to pay for serious illnesses with INSABI  now, that before their Seguro Popular contract covered. The laws need to be changed so level 3 illnesses are free with INSABI. Very simple that probably a grade 7 student should be able to comprehend the current legal situation of the health plan they rely on when ill.

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Just out of curiosity, how does the Red Cross fit in and how are they funded ? I took a non Mexican to the Chapala Red Cross a while back, she was there for several hours with an IV and other medications. The costs was a little over a 100 Pesos. She then put up a fuss because she wanted a receipt. That was the first and last time a took a non Mexican there.

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1 hour ago, AlanMexicali said:

Too bad if real news quoted from the Chamber of Deputies [it was showing video of her addressing the Deputies on this important  proposal on national TV news this weekend] is above your level of comprehension about the health plan you actually use here in Mexico.

Maybe others using "your" health plan [INSABI] can actually understand they are only getting minor to intermediate health illnesses treated for free and will have to pay for serious illnesses with INSABI  now, that before their Seguro Popular contract covered. The laws need to be changed so level 3 illnesses are free with INSABI. Very simple that probably a grade 7 student should be able to comprehend the current legal situation of the health plan they rely on when ill.

That seems to be the case at least as far as our maid's husband is concerned.  Now this is a fairly young man with two children and a wife and yet he is being told he has to finance radiation treatment for his own cancer.  I can certainly understand if this system or any system denies expensive care for really old people (most of Medicare's expenditures go for treatment in the last year of life, a rather big waste in my opinion) but it is hard for me to see how any system worthy of the name should deny a youngish family man the treatment he needs.  Maybe this is exactly why some of the state governors are rebelling at the changes.  And maybe it is just about cutting a better deal.

Anyone who can offer some suggestions as to where we might go to find some help would be greatly appreciated.  With supporting three Oaxacan girls in college at the moment we are stretched a bit thin.

Thanks for getting this back on topic.  Topic is not the U.S. or Canadian health care systems or lack thereof.  Topic is what these changes mean to everyone here in Mexico.

 

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Instead of advancing another useless powerplay on this forum, why don't you do what Rony and Barcelonaman suggested? I have noticed that many cleaners, gardeners, and in our case taxi drivers, seem to think private care is more suitable for their loved ones - especially if a gringo is giving (they will say borrowing) the money.

Lakeside7, for profit hospitals or specialty clinics would be illegal in Canada. Sometimes important people like CEOs and highly paid athletes are shipped to the U.S. because their companies or teams want them back to work as soon as possible. The U.K. has its beloved national health, but they allow a second tier of private insurance for above reasons.

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29 minutes ago, CHILLIN said:

Instead of advancing another useless powerplay on this forum, why don't you do what Rony and Barcelonaman suggested? I have noticed that many cleaners, gardeners, and in our case taxi drivers, seem to think private care is more suitable for their loved ones - especially if a gringo is giving (they will say borrowing) the money.

Lakeside7, for profit hospitals or specialty clinics would be illegal in Canada. Sometimes important people like CEOs and highly paid athletes are shipped to the U.S. because their companies or teams want them back to work as soon as possible. The U.K. has its beloved national health, but they allow a second tier of private insurance for above reasons.

There have been for profit clinics and doctors in BC  for at least 15 years. Here is one;   https://www.centrichealthsurgical.com/location/vancouver/

 

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20 minutes ago, cedros said:

There have been for profit clinics and doctors in BC  for at least 15 years. Here is one;   https://www.centrichealthsurgical.com/location/vancouver/

 

Still illegal, and always a battle. Profit clinics and doctors are not allowed to provide services offered under the Federal Health Care Act.

http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/page6.html

 

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1 hour ago, CHILLIN said:

Still illegal, and always a battle. Profit clinics and doctors are not allowed to provide services offered under the Federal Health Care Act.

http://www.canadian-healthcare.org/page6.html

 

But they do provide services openly. Here is an other one;

https://www.specialistclinic.ca/

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15 minutes ago, cedros said:

But they do provide services openly. Here is an other one;

https://www.specialistclinic.ca/

Well there are always fools who think they deserve better treatment, better foods, better education than the common rabble. Just think, they pay high income taxes to support the public system, then an even higher amount for private health care and private education.

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