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Mainecoons

Guess which lake this river empties into

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Are you seriously implying that the Santiago dumps into Lake Chapala?  You need to look at a map, sir.

 

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I found this. Says Santiago. 

Lake Chapala Geography

Image credit: Jesuschurion57 | Fotolia Image credit: Jesuschurion57 | Fotolia

Sitting at an elevation of 5,000 ft., Lake Chapala is Mexico’s largest natural freshwater lake, extending 50 miles from east to west and about 11 miles north to south. A shallow lake, its average depth is about 15 feet and it borders the states of Jalisco and Michoacán.

The lake was formed 12 million years ago and was significantly larger than it is now, covering the area where Guadalajara is now located. The lake also provides 55 percent of Guadalajara’s drinking water. Lake Chapala is fed at its eastern end by the Lerma River and by the Rio Santiago at its northeastern corner.

Lake Chapala is also home to three islands: Isla de los Alacranes, Isla Mezcala and La Isla Menor.

The region’s tropical latitude, elevation and moderating influence from the lake provides it with one of the best climates in the world. Located about 30 miles south of Guadalajara, the lake’s northwestern shore is laced with a string of small towns and villages that are home to an estimated more than 30,000 expats: Chapala, Riberas del Pilar, Chula Vista, San Antonio Tlayacapan, La Floresta, Ajijic, San Juan Cosala and Jocotepec.

The Sierra de San Juan Cosala Mountain forms a towering backdrop on Chapala’s northern shore and separates the lake communities from Guadalajara. About 8,000 ft. above sea level, the mountain range provides not only a lush green forest, but lots of recreational activities with its hiking trails, caves and waterfalls.

Lake Chapala’s towns and villages are in the Central Standard Time zone and observe daylight saving time beginning the first Sunday in April and ending the last Sunday in October.

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The lake is fed by the Lerma, but drained by the Santiago, if it ever gets high enough to drain.  The article posted by Vette is misleading regarding the Santiago.

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The Santiago River flows from Lake Chapala to the Pacific Ocean.  

"The Grande de Santiago River (Spanish: Río Grande de Santiago)[3] is one of the longest rivers in Mexico, measuring up 433 km (269 mi) long. The river begins at Lake Chapala and continues roughly north-west through the Sierra Madre Occidental, receiving the Verde, Juchipila, Bolaños, and other tributaries. At La Yesca, the La Yesca Dam was completed in 2012 and the El Cajón Dam was completed downstream in 2007. Below El Cajón, the Aguamilpa Dam was completed in 1993, creating a reservoir covering a large part of the territory of the municipality of El Nayar in Nayarit. From Aguamilpa, the river descends to the coastal lowlands, passing by Santiago Ixcuintla and empties into the Pacific Ocean, 16 km (10 mi) northwest of San Blas, in Nayarit. The river is viewed by some sources as a continuation of the Lerma River, which flows into Lake Chapala."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_de_Santiago_River

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Yes I got the two screwed up but this is a pretty sobering article.  What I find really maddening is how these big international companies who most assuredly have the technology and resources to properly treat their wastes get away with using Mexico as a dump because the government here is so inept and corrupt.  I can assure you from personal experience and having been involved in industrial waste research and treatment there are almost no wastes that cannot be either treated or prevented to begin with, with technology that is used in the first world where this dumping is simply not allowed.

The Lerma is pretty bad too, unfortunately.  One of the downers of living in Mexico is the poor job the government does in protecting the environment.

 

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36 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

 One of the downers of living in Mexico is the poor job the government does in protecting the environment.

 

Absolutely right, MC! Such a thing would never happen in a typical American city; at random say... Flint, Michigan, where the well-being of its citizens is paramount.

 

"I like to be in America
OK by me in America
Everything free in America
For a small fee in America...
Life can be bright in America
If you can fight in America
Life is all right in America
If you're all white in America"
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The fact s that the state of many rivers n Mexico is appallng  especially the ones going through states with  ndustriies and large agricultural estates.. Mexicans do not respect the rivers or water and they will ending paying for it with money health and lack of water..

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2 hours ago, MarkWebles said:

Absolutely right, MC! Such a thing would never happen in a typical American city; at random say... Flint, Michigan, where the well-being of its citizens is paramount.

 


"I like to be in America
OK by me in America
Everything free in America
For a small fee in America...

Life can be bright in America
If you can fight in America
Life is all right in America
If you're all white in America"

Pretty sick I would say!

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That story on the river is way out of date. If you really want to know what is going on here, go to John and Suzi's website. http://www.ranchopint.com They are the closest thing we have to English speaking Ecologists/Activists around here. Look up the story on El Saltos, there is no way to direct link that I could find. The Mexican government has spent 300 million pesos for water treatment facilities so far, now awaiting the second stage about where the Guadalajara airport is and the problem area remains. The El Salto falls are beautiful again, no smell or visual pollution, fish and coots thriving. It has been recovered to the "Niagra Falls" of Mexico. We should be encouraging people to visit so the government can see results to their good works.

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5 hours ago, bmh said:

The fact s that the state of many rivers n Mexico is appallng  especially the ones going through states with  ndustriies and large agricultural estates.. Mexicans do not respect the rivers or water and they will ending paying for it with money health and lack of water..

Do you think the problem is localized to Mexico? I can recall the Cuyahoga River* going up in flames, and the Mississippi and Hudson Rivers never looked terribly inviting. ...and by paying for it, you mean the industries and agricultural entities that are causing the effluent that is compromising these water ways should pay, right? Certainly not the average Mexican who would otherwise have to pay for it through taxes they can ill afford, right.

 

* The fire on the Cuyahoga helped usher in laws for the protection of water ways in the US. The very same environmental laws that Trump is repealing as we speak. Let's raise a glass of cool, clear water in the name of progress, shall we?  "Don't you listen to him Dan, He's a devil not a man".

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2 hours ago, Ferret said:

I am not a fan of racist lyrics demeaning ANY race. This is from way begone times (thankfully)...there are many more samples of this nonsense featuring another race that I am sure you would not want to see posted here.  

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The lyrics are not racist, they decry racism as it existed in the '50s, and as it exists right now. The lyrics are meant to be ironic as they are sung by the very Puerto Ricans who are the victims of the casual racism they experience(d). Not knowing this makes you look, I don't know, reactionary, or worse. Putting your head in the sand is never a flattering look.

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2 minutes ago, MarkWebles said:

The lyrics are not racist, they decry racism as it existed in the '50s, and as it exists right now. The lyrics are meant to be ironic as they are sung by the very Puerto Ricans who are the victims of the casual racism they experience(d). Not knowing this makes you look, I don't know, reactionary, or worse. Putting your head in the sand is never a flattering look.

"I like to be in America
OK by me in America
Everything free in America
For a small fee in America...
Life can be bright in America
If you can fight in America
Life is all right in America
If you're all white in America"

Substitute Black or Brown in the last line here and I am sure you and others might have a different reaction. Would you call it ironic? Most of all these past injustices in America are over except for those dredging up the dirt to satisfy their own guilty conscience. Get over it!

America (the US that is) is a great country that has eliminated most, if not all of this. Why not focus on real racism (yes, even here in Mexico), anti-Christianity in the middle East (and elsewhere) and genocide in China, Syria and elsewhere? I would say, why not get YOUR head out of the sand?    

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1 hour ago, MarkWebles said:

Do you think the problem is localized to Mexico? I can recall the Cuyahoga River* going up in flames, and the Mississippi and Hudson Rivers never looked terribly inviting. ...and by paying for it, you mean the industries and agricultural entities that are causing the effluent that is compromising these water ways should pay, right? Certainly not the average Mexican who would otherwise have to pay for it through taxes they can ill afford, right.

 

* The fire on the Cuyahoga helped usher in laws for the protection of water ways in the US. The very same environmental laws that Trump is repealing as we speak. Let's raise a glass of cool, clear water in the name of progress, shall we?  "Don't you listen to him Dan, He's a devil not a man".

Ancient history.

This is today.  There is nothing like the Santiago north of the border.  Period.

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2 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Ancient history.

This is today.  There is nothing like the Santiago north of the border.  Period.

Some people like living in the past and continue to try and pull apart a great country. Sad.

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13 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

Some people like living in the past and continue to try and pull apart a great country. Sad.

I think my irony meter just exploded. Again. You're a great and shining example of the easily led. Go read a book. Preferably one on American history. I'd recommend Zinn, but there's no pictures.

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6 minutes ago, MarkWebles said:

Go read a book. Preferably one on American history.

Preferably written by a European or Canadian. I once read an essay about The Alamo, written by a Polish college student. It was breathtaking.

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2 hours ago, CHILLIN said:

That story on the river is way out of date. If you really want to know what is going on here, go to John and Suzi's website. http://www.ranchopint.com They are the closest thing we have to English speaking Ecologists/Activists around here. Look up the story on El Saltos, there is no way to direct link that I could find. The Mexican government has spent 300 million pesos for water treatment facilities so far, now awaiting the second stage about where the Guadalajara airport is and the problem area remains. The El Salto falls are beautiful again, no smell or visual pollution, fish and coots thriving. It has been recovered to the "Niagra Falls" of Mexico. We should be encouraging people to visit so the government can see results to their good works.

Not true. There is smell and visual pollution there. I've been there 3 or 4 times and it certainly is no Niagara even though it is often called that. Recently Mexico City News paints a grim picture of it.

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3 minutes ago, MarkWebles said:

I think my irony meter just exploded. Again. You're a great and shining example of the easily led. Go read a book. Preferably one on American history.

We are not talking of the past here. Surely you know that the US now has the among the cleanest rivers, lakes, air and drinking drinking water in the world. I read books every day, mostly history, biographies and true crime. It is a crime that many people continue to put down the US whenever they can. I am now reading PARIS 2019 an amazing book about the "Peace Conference" there following the horrific First World War where the US came to the rescue of The Allies and President Wilson, the Brits and the French tried to put in place a plan to prevent "the war to end all wars" from happening again. Unfortunately the Germans were not having anything to do with this and 20 years later again invaded and took over most of Europe. The Japanese then entered and in the end it was the good old USA that came to the rescue and put an end to the atrocities. I would suggest that you read a good American history book and you might change you mind about this great country, warts and all.  

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What I mean by paying for it is that eventually safe water runs out..  It is happening in San Cristobal de las Casas right now.. Many sources of water have been sold or leased to larfe companies like Cocacola , the rivers are beyond filthy and the banks are rat infested and part of the citiy are running out of water...Between the lack of concern for the environement and the corruption  the city is slowng destroyng itself.  After being out of water for a month the municipality sent water trucks in the neighborhood and the neighbors told me not to put the water i the aljibe as it would contaminated the whole house.. Apparently some of the trucks were getting the water from areas where the water was contaminated.. 

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3 hours ago, MarkWebles said:

I think my irony meter just exploded. Again. You're a great and shining example of the easily led. Go read a book. Preferably one on American history. I'd recommend Zinn, but there's no pictures.

Not much of a rebuttal for your ridiculous dragging up of ancient history, just your usual personal insults when you get shown up.  The Santiago River, along with a bunch more, is NOW.  It is killing people NOW just a few miles from us here, got it? 

One thing this article makes clear is even today there is no real will to clean this mess up.  That's the sad part.  There is NO indication anything is going to be done about it anytime soon.  Here's a similar piece on the Lerma.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-deadly-rio-lerma-pueblo-nuevo-mexico

I was there in the U.S. when the EPA was created and I was directly involved in developing the technology and working on the clean up.  There was no question these companies and municipalities were going to have to clean up.  There were no payoffs, there was some litigation.  It took a few years because it was a massive job but it got done.  And in doing so the technology was advanced to the point that there are very few wastes we can't handle at reasonable cost and effectiveness.   The technology has been invented and passed the test of time. 

For an international company like Celanese to come here and dump wastes and bribe the corruptos to do so is criminal and totally unnecessary since they almost certainly have the knowledge to clean up in house.  In America they would be shut down and fined massively and someone might end up going to prison.  In fact that is what happened in some cases.

Here?  Nada.

As an environmental engineer I'd have to sadly conclude Mexico is going backwards, not forward.  Here we're still waiting and people are still dying.  Nothing to be proud of.

 

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Again MC, you are believing everything you read.  The Atlas Obscura article has the WRONG name for the river that is pictured.  It is the Rio Santiago outside El Salto. 

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