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Potential Deportation of US Citizens Living Illegally in Rosarito

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34 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

Those immigrants went through a process that included proof of income or sponsorship.... Just like Mexico requires proof of income for residency. And those legal immigrants to Mexico bring a lot of money into the economy. 

So the only people who should be allowed to immigrate to another country are those who are well-off enough to provide a proof of income that will qualify or know someone who will sponsor them, and bring a lot of money into the economy of the country? Whatever happened to compassion and extending a welcome to those less fortunate than yourself? What's so wrong with wanting to escape a place where you and your family are in danger or wanting to have the opportunity to provide a decent standard of living for them instead of being stuck somewhere where you have no chance of climbing out of poverty and squalor? It's all very nice to say everyone should do that legally, but that's just not possible for many. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad or undesirable people.

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7 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

So the only people who should be allowed to immigrate to another country are those who are well-off enough to provide a proof of income that will qualify or know someone who will sponsor them, and bring a lot of money into the economy of the country? Whatever happened to compassion and extending a welcome to those less fortunate than yourself? What's so wrong with wanting to escape a place where you and your family are in danger or wanting to have the opportunity to provide a decent standard of living for them instead of being stuck somewhere where you have no chance of climbing out of poverty and squalor? It's all very nice to say everyone should do that legally, but that's just not possible for many. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad or undesirable people.

So true, a whole lot of European Americans wouldn´t be Americans if their immigrant ancestors had had to meet the financial qualifications that these later generations think the new ones should be able to meet. Free stuff?…...the us government used to give away free land, it was called homesteading and a lot of immigrants came just for that.  No body from Europe bought land from the indigenous tribes that lived there, they were just given it by the government.  So how many people today are descendants of those people that got "free stuff". You are comparing food stamps to a 160 acres of land.

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Nope  not confusing food stamps with something that happened 150 years ago.

Are you suggesting that the Department of Agriculture should give 150 acres of land in Oklahoma, Nevada, or Arizona to someone who wants food stamps? ( the fed owns enough land to do so)    Times change. 

But he same can be said for Mexico,  Spain vs Indians.    Now both countries today have rules...for good reasons.

If you are to go far enough back in time all land was stolen or claimed by other people or countries. 

You can't compare the world of 150-500 years ago to the world of today.

So if one wants to have different immigration then it is necessary for the citizens of that country to change their laws. Until they do residents of other countries should respect them.

I want to move to Monaco (which is stolen land) but my income doesn't meet their standards. By your suggestion the residents of Monaco are all guilty and shame on them for not allowing me to immigrate there. 

Just not logical. 

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12 hours ago, mudgirl said:

So the only people who should be allowed to immigrate to another country are those who are well-off enough to provide a proof of income that will qualify or know someone who will sponsor them, and bring a lot of money into the economy of the country? Whatever happened to compassion and extending a welcome to those less fortunate than yourself? What's so wrong with wanting to escape a place where you and your family are in danger or wanting to have the opportunity to provide a decent standard of living for them instead of being stuck somewhere where you have no chance of climbing out of poverty and squalor? It's all very nice to say everyone should do that legally, but that's just not possible for many. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad or undesirable people.

The USA admitted over one million legal immigrants last year. 

If they are only wanting to escape poverty and danger,  why not accept the offer from Mexico for work permits in the southern states??  Better wages and safer than home.  Same climate, similar culture, same language. 

And yes they can climb out of poverty & squalor in Mexico. My friends mother was a divorced maid and took ironing at night. All of her children went to university. Now are all professionals in the upper middle class of Mexico. 

 

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Do you know how much of the average middle class American's taxes go towards social welfare programs, food stamps, etc? About $25 a year. So someone less fortunate than you can eat. Most middle class Americans spend that much every day or so on frivolities- things they neither need nor that improve their lives in any significant way. A couple of Starbucks coffees, a $10 glossy magazine that caught their eye at the check-out counter, some take-out food because hey can't be bothered to cook or make a lunch to bring to work.

And it's a myth that people go on welfare or apply for food stamps simply because they're too lazy to work. Most people want to work. If they are chronically unemployed it is usually because they are unemployable- they are uneducated, due to no fault of their own, they have emotional, physical, or mental problems,  they have no necessary skills, they are "too old". If a job opens up for a waitress in a high-end restaurant where the server might actually be able to earn enough in tips to support their kids, who do you think is going to get the job- a somewhat overweight 50 year old woman with limp hair she can't afford to get styled and tired-looking eyes and frown lines with lots of waitressing experience, or the hip, attractive young woman with the latest cool hairdo, perfect teeth and the bubbly personality?

Every major religion advocates compassion and helping those less fortunate than yourself. Studies on happiness have shown that those whose lives include a component of "service to others" report being much more satisfied and happy in life.

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18 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

Do you know how much of the average middle class American's taxes go towards social welfare programs, food stamps, etc? About $25 a year. So someone less fortunate than you can eat. Most middle class Americans spend that much every day or so on frivolities- things they neither need nor that improve their lives in any significant way. A couple of Starbucks coffees, a $10 glossy magazine that caught their eye at the check-out counter, some take-out food because hey can't be bothered to cook or make a lunch to bring to work.

And it's a myth that people go on welfare or apply for food stamps simply because they're too lazy to work. Most people want to work. If they are chronically unemployed it is usually because they are unemployable- they are uneducated, due to no fault of their own, they have emotional, physical, or mental problems,  they have no necessary skills, they are "too old". If a job opens up for a waitress in a high-end restaurant where the server might actually be able to earn enough in tips to support their kids, who do you think is going to get the job- a somewhat overweight 50 year old woman with limp hair she can't afford to get styled and tired-looking eyes and frown lines with lots of waitressing experience, or the hip, attractive young woman with the latest cool hairdo, perfect teeth and the bubbly personality?

Every major religion advocates compassion and helping those less fortunate than yourself. Studies on happiness have shown that those whose lives include a component of "service to others" report being much more satisfied and happy in life.

$25 a year of the average taxpayers budget goes to social welfare programs???  What propaganda are you reading??? 100 million taxpayers @ $25 oer month is $25 million dollars.  A virtual hiccup in the Federal social program budget.

There is sales tax in most states. State sales tax & State property taxes support welfare for the state.  The SNAP or food stamp program the largest expense in the USDA budget.  If not taxpayers who is paying the bill

Americans are the most charitable country in the world on a per capita basis. 

Most people want to work true, and there are more jobs available in the USA than people to fill them.  So why are they not working??

Have you ever visited a food stamp office?? or a Welfare office?? or a public hospitals waiting room??  I have and the vast majority are very able bodied people.  I once worked with 4 generations of women who all listed their primary income source as welfare. 

When the incentive is not to work then it is easy not to work. And that ugly middle aged overweight woman can easily get one of hundreds of jobs other than being a waitress. 

 

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Mostly Lost is right on..You have adopted this brain washing that every Tom, Dick,and Muslim should  be admitted and we should acknowledge  their claim to all the free shit that is available, much of which is unavailable to under or unemployed U.S .Citizens..Give me a break..Those wanting to immigrate should apply and be vetted before being admitted and show that they are a willing worker who will adopt our country as their own and not demand that we support their bullshit religious mandates of hatred and intolerance towards our religions and heritage. No difference than in your moving to Mexico, adapt to Mexico's rules and regulations and if you don't or are here illegally pack your ### back to where you wandered in from..

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5 hours ago, Mostlylost said:

 

You can't compare the world of 150-500 years ago to the world of today.

 

So many crimes have not changed and dispossessian is one of them. Murder has been murder since Cane murdered Abel. And who did the Monacans take land from?

 

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41 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

Have you ever visited a food stamp office?? or a Welfare office?? or a public hospitals waiting room??  I have and the vast majority are very able bodied people.

I have. I didn't presume to be able to tell what might have caused them to find themselves in the situation of having to seek that sort of assistance simply by looking at them and deciding that they looked able-bodied. Not all mental, physical, emotional or situational challenges are obvious. In fact, most of them aren't.

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16 minutes ago, Tomas said:

Mostly Lost is right on..You have adopted this brain washing that every Tom, Dick,and Muslim should  be admitted and we should acknowledge  their claim to all the free shit that is available, much of which is unavailable to under or unemployed U.S .Citizens..Give me a break..Those wanting to immigrate should apply and be vetted before being admitted and show that they are a willing worker who will adopt our country as their own and not demand that we support their bullshit religious mandates of hatred and intolerance towards our religions and heritage. No difference than in your moving to Mexico, adapt to Mexico's rules and regulations and if you don't or are here illegally pack your ### back to where you wandered in from..

That´´s right …... "Intolerance towards our religions (???) and heritage"  lest we forget that God created America only for Americans…….How dare they???  Round them up, put them in cages and let starve to death slowly…..good enough for them.

SARCASM ALERT!!!

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2 hours ago, slainte39 said:

lest we forget that God created America only for Americans…….How dare they??? 

But only white Christian Americans, of course. All others, even if their families have been Americans for generations, are undesirable and can't be considered to be real Americans. (sarcasm, of course)

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6 hours ago, slainte39 said:

So many crimes have not changed and dispossessian is one of them. Murder has been murder since Cane murdered Abel. And who did the Monacans take land from?

 

Monaco stolen from Ligurians by Phoceans.  then by Roman Empire then the Saracans...need I go on?

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2 hours ago, Mostlylost said:

Monaco stolen from Ligurians by Phoceans.  then by Roman Empire then the Saracans...need I go on?

Yeah go on.  So the present day Monacans are descendants of Romans?  Or did Rome just occupy and control the government like they did with the Jews in Palestine and leave the property with the inhabitants and collect taxes like they did in most parts of the Roman Empire.  They didn´t move in large numbers of new people to dispossess the conquered people in the lands they added to the Roman Empire.  Even England, which was a part of the Roman Empire for 500 years have few people there now that claim to be of Roman ethnicity.

How thorough is your study of the ancestral ethnicity of Monacans to be credible, and did the Saracens replace all the Romans that lived there?  I imagine that for the period of 150 years ago most property in Monaco was acquired by purchase and not confiscation by dispossession.  It was you that mentioned a 150 years ago as being a different time for this kind action?

And finally, are there reservations in Monaco for the indigenous people, I think you labelled them Ligurians?   The Ligurians are presently called Italians and have been a pert of that area´s population since the beginning of recorded history.

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17 hours ago, mudgirl said:

But only white Christian Americans, of course. All others, even if their families have been Americans for generations, are undesirable and can't be considered to be real Americans. (sarcasm, of course)

If you have to add "sarcasm" to the end of a post...you aren't doing it right.

It's supposed to be evident to anyone with half a brain...and intended to infuriate the rest.

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32 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

 

It's supposed to be evident to anyone with half a brain...

And that´s why it is important to post the alert on this board.   :D:D:D

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10 minutes ago, slainte39 said:

And that´s why it is important to post the alert on this board.   :D:D:D

au contraire

If they don't have half a brain they're supposed to be infuriated. Those who "get it" will be LOL-ing at those who don't and respond with typical vitriol.

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Way too complicated for my simple brain. Checkers challenges me, but I really like Liars Poker. Plenty of skill involved there.

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On 2/10/2020 at 3:35 PM, Mostlylost said:

$25 a year of the average taxpayers budget goes to social welfare programs???  What propaganda are you reading??? 100 million taxpayers @ $25 oer month is $25 million dollars.  A virtual hiccup in the Federal social program budget.

There is sales tax in most states. State sales tax & State property taxes support welfare for the state.  The SNAP or food stamp program the largest expense in the USDA budget.  If not taxpayers who is paying the bill

Americans are the most charitable country in the world on a per capita basis. 

Most people want to work true, and there are more jobs available in the USA than people to fill them.  So why are they not working??

Have you ever visited a food stamp office?? or a Welfare office?? or a public hospitals waiting room??  I have and the vast majority are very able bodied people.  I once worked with 4 generations of women who all listed their primary income source as welfare. 

When the incentive is not to work then it is easy not to work. And that ugly middle aged overweight woman can easily get one of hundreds of jobs other than being a waitress. 

 

Under current law, legal immigrants to the US cannot apply for government benefits until they have been in the US for 5 years and supporting themselves. "Are legal immigrants eligible for federal public benefit programs?"
"Only those with lawful permanent resident (LPR) status, but not until they have resided as a legal resident for five years."

https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-immigrants-and-public-benefits/

Illegal immigrants cannot be approved for government benefits.

Illegals do pay billions a year in taxes from which they can never benefit plus the US benefits from low wages paid to illegals and no insurance. "Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits"  https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/

" it’s also worth noting that undocumented immigrants are paying billions of dollars in state and local taxes each year — in all 50 states"

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/1/18241692/undocumented-immigrants-pay-state-local-taxes

 

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On 2/10/2020 at 4:24 PM, mudgirl said:

I have. I didn't presume to be able to tell what might have caused them to find themselves in the situation of having to seek that sort of assistance simply by looking at them and deciding that they looked able-bodied. Not all mental, physical, emotional or situational challenges are obvious. In fact, most of them aren't.

 

3 hours ago, Joco said:

Under current law, legal immigrants to the US cannot apply for government benefits until they have been in the US for 5 years and supporting themselves. "Are legal immigrants eligible for federal public benefit programs?"
"Only those with lawful permanent resident (LPR) status, but not until they have resided as a legal resident for five years."

https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-immigrants-and-public-benefits/

Illegal immigrants cannot be approved for government benefits.

Illegals do pay billions a year in taxes from which they can never benefit plus the US benefits from low wages paid to illegals and no insurance. "Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits"  https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/

" it’s also worth noting that undocumented immigrants are paying billions of dollars in state and local taxes each year — in all 50 states"

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/1/18241692/undocumented-immigrants-pay-state-local-taxes

 

Illegal to receive free benefits.... That is a fairy tale. 

New York, California and various other states will give an illegal immigrant a drivers license.  You can register for many free federal and state benefits with  a drivers license as your ID. Also register to vote in most states by simply by raising their hand and saying their address and "I have the right to vote" and "I swear my statements are true" No proof of anything needed.

During my experience in welfare and food stamp offices the employees looked for ways to register more people and many illegals received benefits.

In a public hospital they can not refuse to treat anyone so illegals receive those services.

Sorry but I just can not logically reason that people who violated any countries sovereignty can be argued to be a benefit to that country. What can be argued logically is that they drive down wages, which affects citizens of that countries ability to earn a "living wage"

If the citizens of any country desire changes in their immigration laws then the correct manor is for it's citizens to vote for those changes. But that is not the right of non citizens to expect or demand those changes. 

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16 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

 

Illegal to receive free benefits.... That is a fairy tale. 

New York, California and various other states will give an illegal immigrant a drivers license.  You can register for many free federal and state benefits with  a drivers license as your ID. Also register to vote in most states by simply by raising their hand and saying their address and "I have the right to vote" and "I swear my statements are true" No proof of anything needed.

During my experience in welfare and food stamp offices the employees looked for ways to register more people and many illegals received benefits.

In a public hospital they can not refuse to treat anyone so illegals receive those services.

Sorry but I just can not logically reason that people who violated any countries sovereignty can be argued to be a benefit to that country. What can be argued logically is that they drive down wages, which affects citizens of that countries ability to earn a "living wage"

If the citizens of any country desire changes in their immigration laws then the correct manor is for it's citizens to vote for those changes. But that is not the right of non citizens to expect or demand those changes. 

Undocumented people cannot receive federal benefits with a driver's license. A driver's license means the person can get insurance and will be a safer driver. That benefits the community. "In general, undocumented immigrants, meaning people from other countries who do not have a legal right to be in the United States, are not eligible for any federal public benefits." https://www.boston25news.com/news/trending-now/immigration-can-undocumented-immigrants-get-federal-public-benefits/936951998/

It is a Reagan signed federal law that everyone must receive emergency care regardless of ability to pay. That is called being civilized. We don't let people die in the streets.

If a state wants to help illegals by giving them benefits, that is up to the state. I cannot imagine what kind of experience you have that makes you think undocumented people can receive food stamps and other benefits with a driver's license. The person must prove citizenship or that he has been legally in the country for longer than 5 years.

The undocumented contribute far more than they take and that is easy to prove. Most illegals are people who flew in and overstayed their visas, not farm workers. Get rid of illegals and citizens can pay billions more in taxes.

"Key Findings"

"Undocumented immigrants contribute significantly to state and local taxes, collectively paying an estimated $11.74 billion a year.2 Contributions range from just over $550,000 in Montana with an estimated undocumented population of 1,000 to more than $3.1 billion in California, home to more than 3 million undocumented immigrants. "

"Undocumented immigrants nationwide pay on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes (this is their effective state and local tax rate). To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent of taxpayers pay an average nationwide effective tax rate of just 5.4 percent"

"Granting legal status to all undocumented immigrants in the United States as part of a comprehensive immigration reform and allowing them to work legally would increase their state and local tax contributions by an estimated $2.18 billion a year. Their nationwide effective state and local tax rate would increase to 8.6 percent."

https://itep.org/wp-content/uploads/immigration2017.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 I think it¨s more like…………...

Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives?  Because if not, there´s absolutely no point.

So the concept that illegal immigrants are freeloaders receiving many federal and state benefits is ingrained, that shuts the door.

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Minor point of order, anyone from NOB here without the proper paperwork does not cost for social services.  They have to pay their own way which usually means drawing on funds outside of Mexico, adding to the economy here.  They really can't own a car either as they can't buy one or get insurance for it.  If they are running around on expired TIPS they will lose the car if caught.

By contrast, a number of studies conclude illegal immigrants in the U.S. cost the taxpayer into the five figures.  So it isn't exactly comparing apples and oranges.  And it is pretty much impossible for expats from NOB to claim assylum.  

Harry, you are from CA.  Look up the costs just to that state alone.  Some estimates go as high as $25 billion per year in that one state alone.

Having said all that, I expect my countrymen to respect Mexican immigration law just as they should respect ours.  It is pretty damned easy to be legal here, more so than in the U.S. so not doing so is rather unexcusable.  I have no problem with Mexico checking immigration documents and tossing the violators out.  

Yes, I'd definitely like to see the U.S. adopt Mexican immigration law, starting with the requirement that those seeking residency must show outside incomes somewhere north of $20K per year U.S.  Also, adopting the Mexican restrictions on seeking employment.  Mexican tourists should be able to easily get tourist visas just as we do now.  I respect Mexico for having immigration laws that put Mexican citizens first.  The U.S. really needs to start doing this.

 

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6 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Minor point of order, anyone from NOB here without the proper paperwork does not cost for social services.  They have to pay their own way which usually means drawing on funds outside of Mexico, adding to the economy here.  They really can't own a car either as they can't buy one or get insurance for it.  If they are running around on expired TIPS they will lose the car if caught.

By contrast, a number of studies conclude illegal immigrants in the U.S. cost the taxpayer into the five figures.  So it isn't exactly comparing apples and oranges.  And it is pretty much impossible for expats from NOB to claim assylum.  

Harry, you are from CA.  Look up the costs just to that state alone.  Some estimates go as high as $25 billion per year in that one state alone.

Having said all that, I expect my countrymen to respect Mexican immigration law just as they should respect ours.  It is pretty damned easy to be legal here, more so than in the U.S. so not doing so is rather unexcusable.  I have no problem with Mexico checking immigration documents and tossing the violators out.  

Yes, I'd definitely like to see the U.S. adopt Mexican immigration law, starting with the requirement that those seeking residency must show outside incomes somewhere north of $20K per year U.S.  Also, adopting the Mexican restrictions on seeking employment.  Mexican tourists should be able to easily get tourist visas just as we do now.  I respect Mexico for having immigration laws that put Mexican citizens first.  The U.S. really needs to start doing this.

 

Lots of good facts. But remember, you are posting to many who are educated beyond their intelligence, so a waste of time. :(

 

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