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lakeside7

Thoughtless trades people

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I continue to be puzzled by the  thoughtless,rude,inconsiderate tradesmen who think nothing of making a telephone  call to say they will be late and or a no show

If we living in the jungle in Chiapas perhaps it would be excusable.  But living in Gringoland where we are paying  over the odds for most services etc and a significant number of tradesmen are getting above average  wages for services  performed,  why are the basic good manners not followed 

Now excuse me as I get out my ear plugs as the "old timers" tell me "it's part of the culture" ..like tossing your trash on the highway etc etc..BS!!!

With the current    strong ecconmy at Lakeside a good service/tradesman can make a good living...ah but ,maybe the considerate ones have flown the nest to north of the boarder  

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I am sure that many others understand, as I do. But, you choose not to, and we will not try to change your opinion, as it seems firmly established.  Oh well.....,

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I've simply not rehired those who don't show consideration. Also, I no longer wait for tradespeople to show up. I tell them to call  when they are 10 to 15 minutes away, so if I'm out, I can come home. If they arrive without calling, after not showing up at the arranged time and I'm not there, then they miss out on the work.

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1 hour ago, RVGRINGO said:

I am sure that many others understand, as I do. But, you choose not to, and we will not try to change your opinion, as it seems firmly established.  Oh well.....,

But you choose  to escape our paradise  albeit  for medical reasons..who knows maybe the unattended frustration was part of the cause of your predicament..a latent  killer 

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1 hour ago, lakeside7 said:

But you choose  to escape our paradise  albeit  for medical reasons..who knows maybe the unattended frustration was part of the cause of your predicament..a latent  killer 

You're a sick puppy!

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3 hours ago, lakeside7 said:

I continue to be puzzled by the  thoughtless,rude,inconsiderate tradesmen who think nothing of making a telephone  call to say they will be late and or a no show

If we living in the jungle in Chiapas perhaps it would be excusable.  But living in Gringoland where we are paying  over the odds for most services etc and a significant number of tradesmen are getting above average  wages for services  performed,  why are the basic good manners not followed 

Now excuse me as I get out my ear plugs as the "old timers" tell me "it's part of the culture" ..like tossing your trash on the highway etc etc..BS!!!

With the current    strong ecconmy at Lakeside a good service/tradesman can make a good living...ah but ,maybe the considerate ones have flown the nest to north of the boarder  

Lakeside7,  you are absolutely correct. All tradesmen lakeside are rude and inconsiderate. Well, there used to be good ones making a good living here who showed consideration for the immigrants they serviced but they left family, friends, culture, and a really good living to go NOB where they are, of course, welcomed and treated with dignity and respect. I do not understand how anyone reading your OP could fail to understand the logic and reasonableness of what you say. 

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2 hours ago, mudgirl said:

I've simply not rehired those who don't show consideration. Also, I no longer wait for tradespeople to show up. I tell them to call  when they are 10 to 15 minutes away, so if I'm out, I can come home. If they arrive without calling, after not showing up at the arranged time and I'm not there, then they miss out on the work.

I am totally in agreement with you mudgirl. If a tradesperson doesn't call to inform me that they are going to either 1) be late or 2) reschedule in a timely manner, then they NEVER get my business again. There are many considerate tradespeople out there but, if I'm going to do business with someone, then I state my requirements for timing UP FRONT. I'm rarely disappointed but it does happen. My money, my time, my choice.

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4 hours ago, lakeside7 said:

I continue to be puzzled by the  thoughtless,rude,inconsiderate tradesmen who think nothing of making a telephone  call to say they will be late and or a no show

If we living in the jungle in Chiapas perhaps it would be excusable.  But living in Gringoland where we are paying  over the odds for most services etc and a significant number of tradesmen are getting above average  wages for services  performed,  why are the basic good manners not followed 

Now excuse me as I get out my ear plugs as the "old timers" tell me "it's part of the culture" ..like tossing your trash on the highway etc etc..BS!!!

With the current    strong ecconmy at Lakeside a good service/tradesman can make a good living...ah but ,maybe the considerate ones have flown the nest to north of the boarder  

Tradesmen phoning you LOL. and getting an angry rude foreigner´s remarks WILL be avoided possibly. We use tradesmen all the time with the many rental properties we have and this summer our house to repaint the roof and replace the solar hot water system. My wife and I know what "educado" is. We are friendly and polite with everyone no matter what. We say good morning and how are you and your familly etc. in person or on the phone. It is considered very rude to phone someone and start bitching first. This is why you use WhatsApp to connect. Your message Will be read! We always are polite when writing a message. Example: Good afternoon Arturo. I hope you are doing OK and know you and your crew are always very busy. We will wait for you until 3 o' clock today and tommorow is not good for us.  I hope to hear when is good for you to come and do the job for us, Thank you. Alan. This works every time and we never are out of communication with anyone when using WhatsApp in Mexico. Old fashioned calling on cell phones was obsolite years ago here in San Luis Potosí. Only family and close friends use them to call or call to get information from a service desk etc.. You just don't know how!

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You are correct AlanMexicali. Instead of "call", we should be using the word "communicate".

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1 hour ago, Fred Habacht said:

Calling him a "sick Puppy" is insulting to sick puppies the world over.....actually an ignorant uninformed fool would be better.

Whatever Fred, but he owes RV a sincere apology. I would have used "pri*k" but figured it would get removed.

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13 minutes ago, Ferret said:

You are correct AlanMexicali. Instead of "call", we should be using the word "communicate".

The other great advantage to communicating with WhatsApp is if you are an English speaking person and they are a Spanish speaking person using Google Translator to send text messages in Spanish helps a lot. If they reply in Spanish translating to English gives you the exact meaning. Some Mexicans understand some English and speak some but many don't or pretend they do understand when they really don't and this could be a reason some of them don't answer phone calls from foreigners. IMO

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yes whatsapp is the way to go now.. I rarely call anymore, I just communicate with whatsapp..

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2 hours ago, AlanMexicali said:

The other great advantage to communicating with WhatsApp is if you are an English speaking person and they are a Spanish speaking person using Google Translator to send text messages in Spanish helps a lot. If they reply in Spanish translating to English gives you the exact meaning. Some Mexicans understand some English and speak some but many don't or pretend they do understand when they really don't and this could be a reason some of them don't answer phone calls from foreigners. IMO

And some pretend they don't understand English when they do 🙂 Never assume a Mexican doesn't know what you are saying about them or anyone else just because you are speaking English and are under the impression they don't.

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4 hours ago, Xena said:

Lakeside7,  you are absolutely correct. All tradesmen lakeside are rude and inconsiderate. Well, there used to be good ones making a good living here who showed consideration for the immigrants they serviced but they left family, friends, culture, and a really good living to go NOB where they are, of course, welcomed and treated with dignity and respect. I do not understand how anyone reading your OP could fail to understand the logic and reasonableness of what you say. 

ALL TRADESMEN ARE RUDE...… that unfair and not true. There still are good, considerate and polite  ones and I guess we are lucky we still use them for work. Where does this NOB come from ?  You lump all your negative thoughts to include everyone. Not all apples are red.   If you want to gripe about something consider the quality of some work.  And you have never heard an expat brag how clever he/she was to force the price down. 

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Just a thought. I am on several privacy mailing lists and I get warnings about new creepy things that WhatsApp is doing about once a month. I have had pretty good luck just using the phone message option.

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There's a saying here: "Más vale pedir perdón que pedir permiso."  Your workman might apologize to you after the fact, but he isn't going to communicate to ask permission.  

Even "back home" workmen often don't show up when scheduled.  

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7 hours ago, Newjersey expat said:

ALL TRADESMEN ARE RUDE...… that unfair and not true. There still are good, considerate and polite  ones and I guess we are lucky we still use them for work. Where does this NOB come from ?  You lump all your negative thoughts to include everyone. Not all apples are red.   If you want to gripe about something consider the quality of some work.  And you have never heard an expat brag how clever he/she was to force the price down. 

It appears that my sarcasm font was not working. Though I am surprised that someone from New Jersey failed to recognize it. I thought all us east coasters were fluent in sarcasm.  I am sorry I upset you. 

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18 hours ago, lakeside7 said:

I continue to be puzzled by the  thoughtless,rude,inconsiderate tradesmen who think nothing of making a telephone  call to say they will be late and or a no show

Really, significant progress when one thinks about it......, not that long ago, one would never even get a phone call!   Just sit and wait, and wait...…!    ;-)

Not sure if that's social progress or technology (cell phones)…..

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I'm way late to this conversation, but ARE YOU KIDDING ME???  No, they don't call, they don't text, they don't show up.  It's all part of that wonderful Mexican culture I keep hearing so much about.

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Find better workmen. It's a pain to go through the mediocre ones, I know. 

When you do find them, pay them well, conform to their cultural norms, and explain your expectations/cultural norms to them. Good people want to give good service. Once you are satisfied with a worker, ask them for recommendations for other trades, and even to bring them to consult with you.

Our carpenter (now retired) introduced us to our ironworker, who introduced us to our painter. They all communicate by phone, text and What's App, none speak much English, and none are cheap. We have had these workers from 3-8 years, and will continue to use them. We have what I consider cordial and appropriate employer/employee relationships.

It took a lot of time and a bit of wasted $$ to get to this point, but it can be done. No call backs or waiting around unless it has been prearranged. It takes work on both sides to develop this kind of relationships.

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16 minutes ago, cstone said:

When you do find them, pay them well, conform to their cultural norms, and explain your expectations/cultural norms to them. Good people want to give good service. Once you are satisfied with a worker, ask them for recommendations for other trades, and even to bring them to consult with you.

It would be wonderful if such a practical and humane (and thereby intelligent) approach could be codified as a sort of form (on paper but better if accessible and interactive online also) providing in a casual and friendly way all the relevant information and basic interface tools, relevant to the tasks at hand, updated as conveniently as possible. 

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I've inquired of various Mexican professionals lakeside, on this exact topic - workers who don't show up (or call to let you know).  Several of my contacts told me that, when they need (reliable) workers, they bring them in from Guadalajara.  They also told me that it isn't a problem everywhere in Mexico, but the kind of thing that is commonly found outside of major cities.

Many of us come here in part, because life tends to be more relaxed.  The problem mentioned by the OP is just another part of living this relaxed life - for better or worse.  

As others have already commented, I don't chase the various workers I try to hire.  I let them know I'll be waiting at the time we've agreed to, and, that if they don't show up on time, I'll find someone else.  I doubt my comment affects the behavior, but it gives them a chance to understand my expectation.  Most still don't show up.

On the other hand, I recently set an appointment with a local Architect, and was quite surprised when he called me saying he'd be 30 minutes late.  He was actually about an hour late, but, since he'd called, I felt he'd gone above the local norm and didn't make anything out of it.   Funny thing, he was supposed to get back to me with his estimate of price, but I never heard from him again.  

If you've been here more than a few days, you've had these experiences.  To whatever degree that upsets us, it's OUR response that determines our own attitude.  I get angry, but that's just me trying to swim against the current...  

While it's common to say "all Mexicans" it does more disservice to the speaker than to the Mexicans.  And if the Mexican you're trying to hire senses this kind of attitude, they probably never intended to show up in the first place.

Culturally, they want to please, and in this light, tend to say or make agreements based on wanting to please you in the moment, without really understanding (or caring?) how much not showing up will displease you tomorrow.

Ask for referrals (of good workers) from Mexicans who you know or other gringos, and you will probably get more satisfying results.

 

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