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HarryB

Chapala breaks 2 more promises.

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8 minutes ago, chapalence said:

Paying a pittance in property taxes has its drawbacks. Stop suckin' up the benefits and then bitchin' when things aren't to your liking. 

May I add, there's more than one wheelbarrow for sale in Ajijic and you can certainly get up off your butt and help the good MEXICAN samaritan clean up the town you reap all the benefits living in.   

Not taking sides here, as far as I know I've never met MC, but I do know he has been very active in helping remove graffiti all over Ajijic for several years. Newbies should listen, watch and learn before putting foot in mouth.  Just my opinion.

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3 hours ago, chapalence said:

Paying a pittance in property taxes has its drawbacks. Stop suckin' up the benefits and then bitchin' when things aren't to your liking. 

May I add, there's more than one wheelbarrow for sale in Ajijic and you can certainly get up off your butt and help the good MEXICAN samaritan clean up the town you reap all the benefits living in.   

Property taxes in Mexico do not pay for anything like you think. Their tax distribution system is federal. IVA taxes and SAT taxes are distributed by the federal and state governments according to population and budgets proposed and approved and federal low interest loans. Be assured  paying a pittance in property taxes is because there is a clause in the Mexican Constitution  called Patrimonio Rights:

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrimonio

"Patrimonio:" - Heritage

" Heritage - Wikipedia: Equity is the combined property and rights, charges and obligations, ... From this point of view, the value of the assets that are ..."

Legal definition:  The patrimony is the combined property and rights, charges and obligations, belonging to a person, legal entity."

... which prohibits any government charging property taxes in excess of what the poorest families can afford to pay each year.

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9 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Riberas is the responsibility of the Chapala Muncipio government just as all the other areas are.  There is no separate Chapala town government.  I'm not the one confused here.

The same government applies to all but that government fails to deliver services proportionately to all.  That's the issue.

There are 6 "town delegations" in the Municipio of Chapala...….Ajijic, San Antonio Tlayacapan, Chapala, Santa Cruz de la Soledad., San Nicolás de Ibarra, and Atotonilquillo.

Riberas del Pilar is part of the Chapala delegation just like Nueva Chapala,

So are you saying it´s just one big town, or that Ajijic is separate and being treated like a step child?  Which is it?  If the Municipio of Chapala and the town of Chapala are the same then you are going to have identify your complaints by a street address as there isn´t any division…...according to what you say.

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I believe it’s about elections. More voters in Chapala than Ajijic or Riberas. Foreigners can only vote with their wallets.

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2 hours ago, Taaffe said:

I believe it’s about elections. More voters in Chapala than Ajijic or Riberas. Foreigners can only vote with their wallets.

Excellent point, Taaffe. 

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12 hours ago, Taaffe said:

I believe it’s about elections. More voters in Chapala than Ajijic or Riberas. Foreigners can only vote with their wallets.

Traditionally counties which the "Municipo" of Chapala is have favored the county seat which in this case is Chapala not the outlying rural villages in dispersing tax funds they recieve. Seems to be the case here.

The "municipo" of Chapala is still paying off a giant federal loan they recieved 3 administrations ago probably to redo their malecon and other civic projects as far as I know. This doesn't help. Also with about 52,000 residents recorded in the census it begs to ask just how much federal and state tax money it actually recieves every year.

Those second houses some Mexicans own there sitting empty most of the time wouldn't have their owners and their families counted in the Chapala census. Their permanent home would. Less tax money dispersion to Chapala. I guess it would be the same for tax purposes the "Snowbirds" would not be counted in the census either.

Census totals in a country reflect the population using it's public amendities and tax money recieved to maintain and administration costs to do it  to a great extent. If the population increases quickly more amendities are needed etc. The wear and tear is according to actual counted from the census population. Chapala's wear and tear is also greatly increased from the large constant influx of "out of towners."  They contribute to the private sector economy but not to the tax base calculations the "municipo" recieves.

Pueblos Magicos get extra tax money to maintain this wear and tear tourists make, not common towns where the tax codes dictate the level of tax money dispersion. These problems seem to be what grinds peoples' gears. IMO

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They have broken a third promise They said they would only dump green garbage in the lot on Colorado in Canacinta West Ajijic but the La floresta garbage truck has been dumping their garbage there .  The Rats are getting bigger and they have not done anything to help the neighbours This problem will only get worse as the piles get larger.

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I'll talk to Hector  and Juan Ramon today! Juan Ramon is on it!

 

 

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Harry, thank you for your efforts! And Alan, your factual input! It always helps to understand when facts are known. 

But here is another, unsubstantiated rumor I have heard from three Mexican professional friends... That El Presidente has changed the way that the monies are distributed from MX City to the states, and from there to municipios. The law specifies that certain IVA and other tax revenue is supposed to go through the governors office,  but evidently, those monies are going instead to the state heads of the MORENA party, in states where the governor is a member of another party, Jalisco being one. The MORENA person is the gatekeeper, and decides who gets what. My friends say that this has been a big problem in many ways. 

So, I am wondering if this could be a contributing factor, both in time delays, but also in allocation. I have not asked my friends exactly how this is supposedly happening, perhaps someone here would have more feedback. 

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No nonelected state persons can recieve federal tax money to distribute as they feel fit. The system is in order by law.

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On 7/22/2019 at 10:52 PM, slainte39 said:

My opinion is …...the people who live in Ajijic and blame Chapala for their problems were to move to Chapala, they would blame Ajijic for the problems in Chapala.

:D..LOL..:D..LOL..:DLOL

That´s why I live in SAT, you can watch the tennis match from your private patio.

Interestingly. one never hears the residents of SAT or Riberas whining even though they have the same conditions as Ajijic. I guess the only those who feel they are entitled to more live there. Shame they cannot relax more and enjoy life.

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1 minute ago, luvsdawgs said:

Interestingly. one never hears the residents of SAT or Riberas whining even though they have the same conditions as Ajijic. I guess the only those who feel they are entitled to more live there. Shame they cannot relax more and enjoy life.

Maybe the folks in SAT or Riberas have different expections  than folks in Ajijic, certainly the tax  base in Ajijic is higher due to the type  of properties etc and has a higher  density of visitors etc, more ware and  tear on  the infrastructure 

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3 hours ago, lakeside7 said:

Maybe the folks in SAT or Riberas have different expections  than folks in Ajijic, certainly the tax  base in Ajijic is higher due to the type  of properties etc and has a higher  density of visitors etc, more ware and  tear on  the infrastructure 

Do you have any proof of your assertion? Because looking around all I see is Ajijic may be flashier and more conspicuous in its consumption but Chapala has more properties, more visitors, etc. 

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18 minutes ago, fordtruckman said:

Do you have any proof of your assertion? Because looking around all I see is Ajijic may be flashier and more conspicuous in its consumption but Chapala has more properties, more visitors, etc. 

Absolutely correct and Chapala has a way larger property and business tax base. There are large retailers, hotels, post secondary institutions and even manufacturers as well as more large homes and estate complexes.

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48 minutes ago, fordtruckman said:

Do you have any proof of your assertion? Because looking around all I see is Ajijic may be flashier and more conspicuous in its consumption but Chapala has more properties, more visitors, etc. 

Maybe   because  I was replying to Lovdaugs post which only mentioned the 2 location s, not Chapala 

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SAT comprises of more than just the village, Chula Vista, Chula Vist Norte, Ciele Vista, Mirasol, El Parque, Birds of Paradise, El Dorado, etc are all in SAT. Perhaps there are more high priced houses in Ajijic, but not really by much. The taxes on all the village buildings do not amount to much and many in Ajijic are always boasting on how little they pay in property taxes. (All the while complaining that they are not getting the bang for their buck).  I do not know the boundaries of Ajijic, but SAT is very large, beyond the Fire Department on the Liberanmento, it includes Tobalandia, the Laguna Mall, Walmart. The sign on the libramiento welcoming everyone to Ajijic is in SAT not Ajijic. It goes to the lake, and to Riberas on the east. So I believe it contributes to the coffers, perhaps not as much, but then it does not get the attention from the municipality that Ajijic does. BTW, it is my understanding that the taxes go to the state and then is allocated to Chapala. The VAT is probably as high or higher from SAT due to the mall and Walmart. The residents there are not demanding or whining, just patient. They are happy and content for the most part.

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Lots of good info here.

As one whom has lived in Las Fuentes (couldn't stand the complaining), Joco (Ruidotepec), Puerto Corona, Joco again in 2 barrios, an agave farm above San Luciano just northeast of Las Fuentes, Los Galapagos, Chapala 3 blocks above the bus station, Agua Escondido, Ixtlahuacán de los Membrillos and finally just below El Limon.

With friends I visit fairly often all around the lake I can say with absolute certainly (jajajaja) the best place to live is somewhere I won't mention since I'm waiting for a home to rent or buy in that area, SAT-Riberas if you don't mind the daily traffic, Ajijic if you are involved with activities at LCS, etc or the north shore if you speak passable Mexican and can stay home on the weekends (Guad to Mazamitla traffic is intense).

What is important to me is not to others and vice-versa.

Considering my mother paid $8,000 USD/Yr in 2015 for a 2 bedroom 1,200 sq ft home and got few services for it (public schools ate most of the taxes) I am not about to complain about what I pay here for a 1,600 sq ft 3 bedroom home with a lake and mountain vista even if my local streets are beat to &%*!.

Considering the State of Freedom has seceded from the Union I much prefer living almost anywhere in Mexico.

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On 7/22/2019 at 6:13 AM, Curmudgeon said:

Harry, I really appreciate your energy in pursuing issues like this.

Yes, give them hell Harry. You will be rewarded.

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What I see in Ajijic Chapala area is that the local Mexicans are very passive in comparaison to other areas and poorly organized... In the other place I live each barrio or colona has its president, each street has its encarcado and when the residents decide on something they push for it and have it done without gong through city hall.. IN our barrio it was decided we need more light at nicht. The encargado came by and asked everyone to leave the light on outside at night and asked people to put lights outside of their houses. ENough people did it to make a difference. When we ran out of water , the president of the barrio called for everyone to show up at the water company and it was resolved... Here  there is no structure and no organization.  Np president of barrio ever came knocking at my door ...

I know the barrio is basically an old church structure but down there they have the same structure in the colonias as well and they get results when they want to.. In Teotitlan del Valle Oaxaca same deal and neighbors put pressure on neighbors, here everyone wants to be free to do what they please and we end up with garbage everywhere, recycling that is not the best etc... Harry or the delegado cannot do it by themselves and cityhall in Chapala dos whatever they please. 

The security meeting was a perfect exemple.. they used civic leaders that are really not leaders of the community and think they have done their duty.. It is a total joke.

 

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14 hours ago, cedros said:

Yes, give them hell Harry. You will be rewarded.

I'll bet that Harry might wonder how and when....😃

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