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Chapala officials promised to have an english speaking officer available 24/7. The phone #  33 21 61 59 03 is no longer being answered and it's mailbox is full.

Juan Rafael Vargas was supposed to be available 9 p.m. to 3 a.m. for noise complaints the number 331 862 1096 is no longer being answered and the mailbox is full.

I will be informing Dale Palfrey of the Guadalajara Reporter and Hector Espana Ramos, Expat Community Liaison

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SAT comprises of more than just the village, Chula Vista, Chula Vist Norte, Ciele Vista, Mirasol, El Parque, Birds of Paradise, El Dorado, etc are all in SAT. Perhaps there are more high priced houses

“That is different from disparaging a corrupt government that pretty much shafts the entire municipio outside of one town.  Of course some of the residents of said town don't like to be reminded of t

Property taxes in Mexico do not pay for anything like you think. Their tax distribution system is federal. IVA taxes and SAT taxes are distributed by the federal and state governments according to pop

Cute cartoon.  But long ago, I concluded that the "promises" of politicians in general are worth those of a high school boy in a parked car on a date.  ...and that's everywhere across the globe.  I don't know this for a fact, but I'll bet that the largest exchange of cash gets the most reliable "promise" fulfilled. In this case, it would probably be the builders, not the hopeful expats.

But then, I'm a hopeless cynic. Over the past ten years of living here, I watched the debacle in West Ajijic going forth and wondered where the sewage was going to go.  I still wonder.

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2 hours ago, NLU said:

If I thought that I wouldn't be accused of being angry and bi👨tter, I'd say, "Like Ilox?"

Good thing you resisted the urge to drag out your old, tired whine, linking your favorite grudge to just about anything posted. Because that was getting really old. 

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What I don't understand is why this particular issue remains ongoing in this part of Mexico. In other places where there is a large expat population, or one of middle-class Mexicans, the new noise ordinances are being enforced. What is it about Chapala municipality that makes it so hard for the officials (and some of the public) to understand the rationale behind implementing reasonable noise limits? Even the local Mexicans with whom I speak don't like the excessively loud noise. Why does law enforcement prefer to side with the minority making all the ruckus? 

Personally, I have given up.  I've  installed solar panels for cheaper electricity, mini split a/c units to ensure decent sleep, internal shutters over windows and doors to buffer the sound, as needed.  Come to think of it, pretty much the same way of life I had in the US, insulated away from the disturbances of the outside world.

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One of the first things you learn about Mexico, if you keep your ears open, is that it's not a quiet country in general. The "right to make noise" seems to have been a part of life for many years here. Not gonna change overnight. I laugh when a newbie posts something like "Looking for a 3/2 in a good area that has low noise, good parking and not over $500".

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2 hours ago, pappysmarket said:

One of the first things you learn about Mexico, if you keep your ears open, is that it's not a quiet country in general. The "right to make noise" seems to have been a part of life for many years here. Not gonna change overnight. I laugh when a newbie posts something like "Looking for a 3/2 in a good area that has low noise, good parking and not over $500".

This is true but let's remember at least here in Jalisco and also at the national level the noise laws were written and passed by Mexicans, not expats, and if you follow the GDL news you know the agitation against the noise has come from the Mexican community.  It is safe to say there is a serious constituency for noise control in the Mexican community quite apart from expats.

As for the Chapala government one should not be surprised it doesn't enforce this law either, along with zoning, environmental, building or anything else where pay for play rules.  Nothing has changed except the new "Presidente" is more adept at promoting himself and slick PR.

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1 hour ago, Taaffe said:

My experience in fighting city hall is that to get results you have to keep at it until you get them to obey the law.

Don’t give up Harry B

Difficult to internalize one can "win" fighting city hall in Mexico.

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3 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

 

As for the Chapala government one should not be surprised it doesn't enforce this law either, along with zoning, environmental, building or anything else where pay for play rules.  Nothing has changed except the new "Presidente" is more adept at promoting himself and slick PR.

I love it and will gladly help you move.

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9 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

This is true but let's remember at least here in Jalisco and also at the national level the noise laws were written and passed by Mexicans, not expats, and if you follow the GDL news you know the agitation against the noise has come from the Mexican community.  It is safe to say there is a serious constituency for noise control in the Mexican community quite apart from expats.

Agree. One of the highest number of  complaints in Mexico City is in regards to noise.  Here is the law which my husband presented to the mayor's assistant, a lawyer, in SMA and he had immediately results. A phone call was made while he was still in her office. The city did not know the law existed.

http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle_popup.php?codigo=5324105

Noise equivalency  http://www.noisehelp.com/noise-level-chart.html

 

ACUERDO por el que se modifica el numeral 5.4 de la Norma Oficial Mexicana NOM-081-SEMARNAT-1994, Que establece los límites máximos permisibles de emisión de ruido de las fuentes fijas y su método de medición.

Al margen un sello con el Escudo Nacional, que dice: Estados Unidos Mexicanos.- Secretaría de Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales.

CUAUHTÉMOC OCHOA FERNÁNDEZ, Subsecretario de Fomento y Normatividad Ambiental, con fundamento en lo dispuesto por los artículos 32 Bis de la Ley Orgánica de la Administración Pública Federal; 51, segundo párrafo, de la Ley Federal sobre Metrología y Normalización; 5o. fracciones V y XV; 15, fracciones III, XII y XVI, 36, fracción II y último párrafo, 37 TER y 155 de la Ley General del Equilibrio Ecológico y la Protección al Ambiente; 8, fracciones III y IV del Reglamento Interior de la Secretaría de Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales, y

CONSIDERANDO

Que la contaminación acústica es un problema ambiental importante con cada vez mayor presencia en la sociedad moderna, debido al desarrollo de actividades industriales, comerciales y de servicios que constituyen fuentes tanto fijas como móviles que generan diferentes tipos de ruido que, de acuerdo a su intensidad, frecuencia y tiempo de exposición, repercuten no sólo en los seres humanos sino en los seres vivos que conforman los ecosistemas en los que se encuentra inmersa la población humana.

Que el artículo 4o. de la Constitución Política de los Estados Unidos Mexicanos, establece el derecho de toda persona a un medio ambiente sano para su desarrollo y bienestar, mandato constitucional que implica la protección del conjunto de elementos naturales y artificiales o inducidos por el hombre que hacen posible la existencia y desarrollo de los seres humanos y demás organismos vivos que interactúan en un espacio y tiempo determinados.

Que el artículo 155 de la Ley General del Equilibrio Ecológico y la Protección al Ambiente, prohíbe las emisiones de ruido en cuanto se rebasen los límites máximos establecidos en las normas oficiales mexicanas expedidas por la Secretaría de Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales, considerando los valores de concentración máxima permisibles para el ser humano de contaminantes en el ambiente que determine la Secretaría de Salud.

Que el trece de enero de mil novecientos noventa y cinco, se publicó en el Diario Oficial de la Federación, la norma oficial mexicana NOM-081-SEMARNAT-1994, Que establece los límites máximos permisibles de emisión de ruido de las fuentes fijas y su método de medición, tema normativo cuya modificación se reiteró en el Programa Nacional de Normalización publicado en el mismo medio de difusión oficial el veintinueve de abril de dos mil trece.

Que no obstante la existencia de la regulación normativa señalada en el párrafo anterior, nuestro país, a nivel internacional, sigue señalándose como ejemplo de naciones en las que se han incrementado los problemas generados por la contaminación acústica. Por ejemplo, la Organización Mundial de la Salud ha estimado que, al menos, 120 millones de personas en el mundo presentan problemas auditivos a consecuencia del ruido excesivo al que están sometidos, sobre todo en las grandes urbes.

Que por su parte, la Organización para la Cooperación y Desarrollo Económicos (OCDE), ha informado que trece millones de habitantes de sus países miembros, entre ellos México, se encuentran expuestos a un nivel sonoro superior a 65 decibeles. Al respecto, recientemente, en el año dos mil doce, la Fonoteca Nacional realizó la medición de los niveles sonoros en cinco puntos diferentes de la capital de la República Mexicana, reportando que en la Ciudad de México se excede el límite superior deseable que recomienda la Organización Mundial de la Salud.

Que lo anterior, impele a adoptar medidas concretas de protección para la salud humana, en aplicación del principio precautorio de acuerdo con el cual, la falta de certeza científica no constituye un obstáculo para adoptar medidas de protección al medio ambiente y a la salud humana, sin que por ello se demerite el proceso de modificación de la regulación existente en la materia.

Que el artículo 51 de la Ley Federal sobre Metrología y Normalización establece que cuando no subsistan las causas que motivaron la expedición de una norma oficial mexicana, el Comité Consultivo Nacional de Normalización correspondiente, podrá modificar la norma de que se trate sin seguir el procedimiento para su elaboración, salvo que se pretendan crear nuevos requisitos o procedimientos o especificaciones más estrictas.

Que en el presente caso, si bien es cierto que subsisten las causas que motivaron la expedición de la norma oficial mexicana NOM-081-SEMARNAT-1994, Que establece los límites máximos permisibles de

emisión de ruido de las fuentes fijas y su método de medición, también es cierto que dichas causas han sido superadas ampliamente por la realidad actual de la incidencia perjudicial del ruido en los seres humanos, lo cual se ha descrito en párrafos anteriores.

Que del análisis de la regulación vigente, se deduce que los niveles máximos permisibles del nivel sonoro en ponderación "A", contenidos en la Tabla 1 de la citada norma oficial mexicana, conllevan a que todas las fuentes emisoras de ruido deben cumplir con los mismos valores, lo cual no es un criterio adecuado; dado que las diversas actividades humanas que se desarrollan dentro de cualquier instalación, no se pueden equiparar, por lo que en opinión de la Comisión Federal para la Protección contra Riesgos Sanitarios de la Secretaría de Salud y de la Secretaría de Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales, es conveniente establecer los niveles de ruido y la zonificación que recomienda la Organización Mundial de la Salud.

Que existen diferencias sustanciales entre los niveles de ruido de una zona residencial, industrial, comercial o de servicios, por lo que la determinación de los niveles máximos permisibles de ruido para cada una de ellas, no genera obligaciones innecesarias a aquellas zonas en las cuales se desarrollan actividades menos ruidosas, ello sin perjuicio de que dicha zonificación represente mayores beneficios en la salud de las personas que se encuentran expuestas a altos niveles de emisión de ruido.

Que en este sentido, la Dirección General de Industria, previa valoración técnica, sometió a mi consideración el presente instrumento, mismo que tiene como finalidad precisar los límites máximos permisibles del nivel sonoro en ponderación "A" emitidos por las fuentes fijas, atendiendo a la actividad generadora del mismo, las zonas en las cuales puede producirse y los horarios en los cuales puede generarse; modificaciones que no crean nuevos requisitos o procedimientos, sino que únicamente precisa e individualiza aspectos técnicos importantes para la determinación de niveles aceptables de ruido y, por lo que he tenido a bien expedir el siguiente:

"ACUERDO POR EL QUE SE MODIFICA EL NUMERAL 5.4 DE LA NORMA OFICIAL MEXICANA NOM-

081-SEMARNAT-1994, QUE ESTABLECE LOS LÍMITES MÁXIMOS PERMISIBLES DE EMISIÓN DE

RUIDO DE LAS FUENTES FIJAS Y SU MÉTODO DE MEDICIÓN"

ARTICULO ÚNICO. Se modifica el numeral 5.4 de la norma oficial mexicana NOM-081-SEMARNAT-1994, Que establece los límites máximos permisibles de emisión de ruido de las fuentes fijas y su método de medición, para establecer lo siguiente:

"5.4 Los límites máximos permisibles del nivel sonoro en ponderación "A" emitidos por fuentes fijas, son los establecidos en la Tabla 1.

TABLA 1. LÍMITES MÁXIMOS PERMISIBLES.

ZONA

HORARIO

LÍMITE MÁXIMO

PERMISIBLE dB (A)

Residencial1 (exteriores)

6:00 a 22:00

22:00 a 6:00

55

50

Industriales y comerciales

6:00 a 22:00

22:00 a 6:00

68

65

Escuelas (áreas exteriores de juego)

Durante el juego

55

Ceremonias, festivales y eventos de entretenimiento.

4 horas

100

 

1 Entendida por: vivienda habitacional unifamiliar y plurifamiliar; vivienda habitacional con comercio en planta baja; vivienda habitacional mixta; vivienda habitacional con oficinas; centros de barrio y zonas de servicios educativos.

TRANSITORIO

ÚNICO. El presente Acuerdo entrará en vigor al día siguiente de su publicación en el Diario Oficial de la Federación.

México, Distrito Federal, a los seis días del mes de noviembre de dos mil trece.- El Subsecretario de Fomento y Normatividad Ambiental, Cuauhtémoc Ochoa Fernández.- Rúbrica.

 

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10 hours ago, AngusMactavish said:

I love it and will gladly help you move.

You'd probably steal my stuff.  :D

Chapologists don't like hearing the blunt truth.  Believe me the Mexican professionals I hang with have a lot worst to say about the Chapala government than I do.  Even the household help seems to know the score better than you do.

 

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The "rules and corruption" people have to realize that they have moved to, or are visiting, a small town which can only offer agriculture, and more recently, tourism as economic incentives. The politics is similar to small Southern U.S. towns stuck in the 60's. There is not much racism, but many "expats" in Ajijic very much consider Chapala & Jocotepec to be "the other side of the railway tracks". No surprise then that local politics is petty, and mildly corrupt. Like the people who like to make and live in noise, they are low class. Yet there is another class who thinks they are way above this. Rather than Hooterville, I think this place reminds me of Caddyshack. We all know who plays Judge Smails around here.

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11 minutes ago, CHILLIN said:

 many "expats" in Ajijic very much consider Chapala & Jocotepec to be "the other side of the railway tracks".

Only those that delude themselves with little or no knowledge,so only a few not many give this any thought.

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There is not much racism, but many "expats" in Ajijic very much consider Chapala & Jocotepec to be "the other side of the railway tracks". 

Funny, after nearly 12 years here I don't know anyone who thinks that way. 

I know people who prefer closer proximity to most of the expat population correctly observe they are few and far between in Jocotepec and only slightly less so in Chapala.  I know people who prefer the greater greenery in and around Ajijic.  I know people who like the fact there are many more restaurants in Ajijic.  I know some who prefer smaller weekend crowds than is typical of Chapala these days.  

But I don't know anyone who thinks as you describe.  OTOH it sure seems to be characteristic of more than a few Chapala expats to knock Ajijic on this board.  Including one who hasn't even lived here for some years.  It almost give the impression that some feel jealous of us who chose to live in Ajijic.  :)

Actually I think the rest of the muncipio rather envies the fact most of our tax dollars go into your community.  If anything you all should look down on us for our trashy, potholed streets and lack of the government services you enjoy at our expense.  You should feel more magnanimous towards your more neglected country cousins.  :D

 

 

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It is amazing how despite the very real and horrid conditions humans all over the world are struggling with a group of well-off, comfortable people continue to bicker over which privileged spot is the best privileged spot to occupy. 

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You know out here in the fields, Haciendas, we hear a lot of people, including Mexicans, who disparage Ajijic. One on this board reinventing himself, famously labelled Ajijic as a "gringo ghetto" and fiercely supported his claim.

We recently moved from a large, old house where we paid 9,000 pesos a month. Our landlord thought they might get at least double that. It has been vacant for months now. We looked at three other houses in Haciendas because it is quiet, relatively safe, lots of parking. They were all 9,000 pesos per month, long term. We chose the one which is newly renovated by someone who has a good eye for style 2/2 gated parking. It had a shiny new refrigerator, never used, and wonderful old parota cabinet. We had to supply the rest of the furnishings. So $500 us per month is definitely doable if you know how and where to look.

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13 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Ajijic is not the best place for the budget minded.  Maybe a little sour grapes from some of the folks you are writing about?

 

The grapes available at the Chapala Mercado and surrounding fruit and vegetable stores are never sour.

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30 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Maybe a little sour grapes from some of the folks

 

 

Not at all, it is from people who had good enough jobs and can afford to move here with pensions and cash. Most of them would have lived in suburbs or small farms in the North. This is the lifestyle they are used to. Many of them missed the "urban peasant" culture and lifestyle.

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