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Monex being sued by gringos for vanishing balances

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Expats life savings have been disappearing from Monex accounts. If you have an account at Monex better read this article.  BOTTOM LINE - Financial fraud is exploding in Mexico, and American expats with accounts at Monex appear to be among the latest victims.

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Protections here in Mexico are nowhere near the US.  Here people that were selling potato chips the other week are now selling investments and banking products with no licensing required.  They are berated and their jobs in danger if they don´t sell the products and if they do then earn good commissions while only reciting the official blurb and having little to no investment experience.  Fraud and theft is very common and the banks will not give you records or video unless forced to and often take unreasonable positions.  Only place in a Mexican institution what you can afford to lose as if you need to go after them it can be a very long and expensive process.  Trust nobody with your money.  In the US people can lose jobs and go to jail, or lose professional licenses so they have incentives to be honest.  

Be concerned about the return OF your money no the return ON it.  

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8 hours ago, Intercasa said:

Protections here in Mexico are nowhere near the US.  Here people that were selling potato chips the other week are now selling investments and banking products with no licensing required.  They are berated and their jobs in danger if they don´t sell the products and if they do then earn good commissions while only reciting the official blurb and having little to no investment experience.  Fraud and theft is very common and the banks will not give you records or video unless forced to and often take unreasonable positions.  Only place in a Mexican institution what you can afford to lose as if you need to go after them it can be a very long and expensive process.  Trust nobody with your money.  In the US people can lose jobs and go to jail, or lose professional licenses so they have incentives to be honest.  

Be concerned about the return OF your money no the return ON it.  

intercasa is right,  be more concerned on the return of your investments, rather then the return on your investments

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1 hour ago, gringal said:

...and even in the U.S., there was the Wells Fargo scandal.

Deposits in the US are insured by the gub'mint.  Wells Fargo didn't just steal the people's money right out of their accounts, as happens frequently in Mexico.

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49 minutes ago, addtocart said:

Deposits in the US are insured by the gub'mint.  Wells Fargo didn't just steal the people's money right out of their accounts, as happens frequently in Mexico.

Here's the story, found after a search in Senor Google:

https://theweek.com/articles/649015/wells-fargos-phonyaccount-scandal-explained

Then, Wells Fargo closed all the accounts involved, leaving the people with no proof of fraud and no return of the fees paid.  As far as I can learn from Google, government insurance wasn't paid to those defrauded.

However, the bottom line with the far worse Mexican situation is:  DO NOT PUT MORE MONEY IN A MEXICAN BANK THAN YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. My loss of $10,000 pesos from a combination of naivete and downright stupidity didn't leave me broke, and common sense had my life savings safely in the U.S.   I wonder what the people were thinking who put their life savings in a bank with no deposit insurance?  The woman who is being accused of being responsible for this scam was a real genius con artist.

 

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8 hours ago, gringal said:

Here's the story, found after a search in Senor Google:

https://theweek.com/articles/649015/wells-fargos-phonyaccount-scandal-explained

Then, Wells Fargo closed all the accounts involved, leaving the people with no proof of fraud and no return of the fees paid.  As far as I can learn from Google, government insurance wasn't paid to those defrauded.

However, the bottom line with the far worse Mexican situation is:  DO NOT PUT MORE MONEY IN A MEXICAN BANK THAN YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. My loss of $10,000 pesos from a combination of naivete and downright stupidity didn't leave me broke, and common sense had my life savings safely in the U.S.   I wonder what the people were thinking who put their life savings in a bank with no deposit insurance?  The woman who is being accused of being responsible for this scam was a real genius con artist.

 

There is deposit insurance but you have to know where it is valid.

Check out Ley de Protección al Ahorro Bancario.

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I have helped several friends of Have Hammer school with  financial help.

Just raised over $2500 US dollars two months ago for the Have Hammers school solar energy installation. Donating the fees for doing US tax returns.

If you are concerned locally her in the lakeside area of your investments, i can help verify them.

or in the United states i can help.

In the last 8 years  helped 3 people file papers and recover part of their investment in  US ponzi schemes.

helped others in many other situations.

I just ask a donation to Have Hammers Will Travel carpentry school. for my efforts.

Can help with back year tax returns.for fee

I personally know the advisers at Actinver, Multiva, Bancomer. Intercam banks. in Ajijic

I have bank accounts in HSBC, Multiva and Bancomer.

Their are certain things you must be aware  of when using Mexican banks , some banks have more fees than others some give better interest than others.

Mexican checking accounts and ATM's have different rules than USA

You must file a FIN CIN 114  (FBAR) banking account form with the  with  USA if you have over 10.000 US dollars aggregate in foreign bank accounts.

I and my wife safely are receiving 8.83% interest on a CD here in mexico. before taxes.

Yes mexico has political risk

country risk

and currency risk

 

Right know the country of Mexico  i feel has less financially risk and political risk the the USA.

there is always a little currency risk, peso fluctuates.

I been here 10 years and will be here forever.

all replies kept strictly confidential.

With Affinity

 H Wayne Renz

 Have Hammer Will Travel A.C.

 Treasurer, Officer of Philanthropy and Major Gifts   

 (AKA Head Honcho for Gifts of Passion and Love for the Kids)

(También conocido como Jefe por los Regalos de Pasión y Amor por los Niños)

taxexpat@aol.com    Mexico 376-766-1860      USA Vonage 718-204-1851

Giving While Living

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

have hammers logo long webpage 2.JPG

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Good post traderspoc.  I am always skeptical of these reported bank fraud activities. I´m sure some are correct but after dealing with Mexican main stream banking institutions for over 40 years without any problem, I just have the gut feeling that sometimes things might have a different spin than just the sensationalized media accounts of the situation, and there might be  more of the story that is not included.

I have never lost any money or sleep over any Mexican banking activity. Of course living in a peso economy and peso earnings, what it is in relation to the US dollar doesn´t concern me in the least.  When the peso had sudden and dramatic loss fluctuations against the US dollar, the interest rates raised in accordance, and prices for the products that were imported, and wages and salaries followed right behind.  In 90+ % of the country where real estate in sold and bought by Mexicans. prices (in pesos) lagged for a little while but eventually came up to the new value of the currency.

A lot of people made a lot of money buying pesos on the future, 18 months out, when we had severe devaluations, before NAFTA. Big foreign corporations doing business in Mexico,  would sell their calculated  future peso profits for a pittance of what they would be worth a year and a half out as they wanted to guarantee some kind of profit. Those days are over for the foreseeable future.

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Hi

 

I am a Mexican that has worked in the financial industry and I believe there are several misundestandings regarding how financial institutions work in Mexico.

First of all... Lets talk about the bankers preparation.

99% of Bankers in MExico are University graduates. Even though, in the diverse activities that they provide to customers they are required to have (or not to have) some certifications from The Mexican Asociation of Bourse Institutions (AMIB http://www.amib.com.mx/). An AMIB certification allows a banker to provide investment advice to customers,. So yes, they are prepared at a minimal standard. Perhaps the "Issue"in Mexico, is that many institutions does not have clear controls regarding the match that must exist between the investors profile and what is being advised on their account.  

 

It is extremely important to understand what is being offered to you as an investment. Being CETE the only instrument that is almost risk free as it is government backed. Usually, a retired expat should expect to have a major part of its portfolio in CETEs  and some of your money in other investment funds. 

Now lets talk about the bank guarantees. 

Bankers can lose their AMIB certification and go to jail if they incur in major wrongdoings. Also, deposits are guaranteed in case the bank fails (please note the Only if the bank fails) up to 2.5 million pesos aprox. Therefore, The only guarantee you have from an investment loss is to consider which kind of instrument you are investing and the quality of such investment. Therefore, Never Ever, under any circumstance give a Mexican Banker a Power of Attorney to manage your investments at will. This figure is called a "contrato discrecional" in Mexico. If you do not sign this, you will be required to sign a paper, or provide a telephone recorded instruction for any investment you make in your account. 

How to solve customer complaints to banks in MExico:

Last, but not least. In the US and CA, any allegations by customers are usually solved by the bank before going to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau ( or equivalent in CA). Here In Mexico, things work out a little bit different. If you complain to your bank, there is a very little rate of success, but if you go to CONDUSEF ( The mexican financial consumer agency), you have a great chance of "winning the issue against the bank". Therefore, if your account is drained by a bank executive, or you do not recognize any transactions, you should go to the bank, ( & expect a denial of your claim) and afterwards, go to CONDUSEF, where your issue will probably get solved. 

Regarding Monex, I  assume that most of the damage was made by a banker making fraud by falsifying customers signatures, with such executive providing instructions to drain the accounts. Thats the reason why Monex is willing to settle the claims. IF the trouble had arised from bad investment decisions, Monex wouldn´t be offering to settle to customers as it is a common practice to open Discretionary investment accounts to expats in MExico. 

I hope this helps you guys to understand how things work in MExico. IF you have any other questions, I will be happy to give some more insights.

 

Regards

 

Guillermo R.

 

 

 

 

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On 5/27/2019 at 12:33 AM, slainte39 said:

Good post traderspoc.  I am always skeptical of these reported bank fraud activities. I´m sure some are correct but after dealing with Mexican main stream banking institutions for over 40 years without any problem, I just have the gut feeling that sometimes things might have a different spin than just the sensationalized media accounts of the situation, and there might be  more of the story that is not included.

I have never lost any money or sleep over any Mexican banking activity. Of course living in a peso economy and peso earnings, what it is in relation to the US dollar doesn´t concern me in the least.  When the peso had sudden and dramatic loss fluctuations against the US dollar, the interest rates raised in accordance, and prices for the products that were imported, and wages and salaries followed right behind.  In 90+ % of the country where real estate in sold and bought by Mexicans. prices (in pesos) lagged for a little while but eventually came up to the new value of the currency.

A lot of people made a lot of money buying pesos on the future, 18 months out, when we had severe devaluations, before NAFTA. Big foreign corporations doing business in Mexico,  would sell their calculated  future peso profits for a pittance of what they would be worth a year and a half out as they wanted to guarantee some kind of profit. Those days are over for the foreseeable future.

"I have never lost any money or sleep over any Mexican banking activity." You should have been in a Mexican bank in 1994 when you could have USD accounts. The government forced all those accounts to convert one night to equivalent peso accounts then immediately devalued the peso massively.

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44 minutes ago, geeser said:

"I have never lost any money or sleep over any Mexican banking activity." You should have been in a Mexican bank in 1994 when you could have USD accounts. The government forced all those accounts to convert one night to equivalent peso accounts then immediately devalued the peso massively.

Are you kidding,  I´ve had Mexican bank accounts for 45 years.  Never had a USD account so wasn´t forced into anything.  Back in the days before ´94 when a devaluation against the USD came along, you just left your money in sky high yielding fixed income securities that the rates went through the roof on and buy pesos on the futures market at sometimes a 50% discount to where it finally settled down.  Never lost anything even if I figured it USD terms,  Also, the other big plus was, that was the time to buy anything and everything because it took some time before inflation caught up with devaluation. A well known American, living in Chapala in those days bought 2 Mercedes Benz automobiles for the price of one in USD, right after the devaluation. They were listed for the equivalent of US 80K per auto and suddenly, you get 2 for the same amount of USD-

I was taught all this by the great financial guru, Eugene Latham when he was advising and developing strategies in the 60´s, 70´s and 80´s from his position as CFO for a large Mexican bank, and later his own investment firm,  in CD de Mexico.

Foreigners and Mexicans too, who had funds in USD, that panicked and changed the devalued pesos quickly back into USD, took a whuppin´, but that was their bad decision.

BTW, the forced cambiado from USD to pesos was before ´94  and sometime in the 80´s, ´88 I think, during the presidency of Lopez --------.  Do you remember Nafinsa, that was the big government owned and operated national financial institution where most Mexicans, and some foreigner too, had their savings account investments,  they had an office in Chapala just west of the Presidencia on Hidalgo and AWLloyd was just getting started around the corner on Madero, that was late 70´s or early 80´s I believe.

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8 hours ago, slainte39 said:

Are you kidding,  I´ve had Mexican bank accounts for 45 years.  Never had a USD account so wasn´t forced into anything.  Back in the days before ´94 when a devaluation against the USD came along, you just left your money in sky high yielding fixed income securities that the rates went through the roof on and buy pesos on the futures market at sometimes a 50% discount to where it finally settled down.  Never lost anything even if I figured it USD terms,  Also, the other big plus was, that was the time to buy anything and everything because it took some time before inflation caught up with devaluation. A well known American, living in Chapala in those days bought 2 Mercedes Benz automobiles for the price of one in USD, right after the devaluation. They were listed for the equivalent of US 80K per auto and suddenly, you get 2 for the same amount of USD-

I was taught all this by the great financial guru, Eugene Latham when he was advising and developing strategies in the 60´s, 70´s and 80´s from his position as CFO for a large Mexican bank, and later his own investment firm,  in CD de Mexico.

Foreigners and Mexicans too, who had funds in USD, that panicked and changed the devalued pesos quickly back into USD, took a whuppin´, but that was their bad decision.

BTW, the forced cambiado from USD to pesos was before ´94  and sometime in the 80´s, ´88 I think, during the presidency of Lopez --------.  Do you remember Nafinsa, that was the big government owned and operated national financial institution where most Mexicans, and some foreigner too, had their savings account investments,  they had an office in Chapala just west of the Presidencia on Hidalgo and AWLloyd was just getting started around the corner on Madero, that was late 70´s or early 80´s I believe.

My wife says it was in the early half of the 80s. But it happened.

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22 hours ago, Guillermo R said:

Hi

 

I am a Mexican that has worked in the financial industry and I believe there are several misundestandings regarding how financial institutions work in Mexico.

First of all... Lets talk about the bankers preparation.

99% of Bankers in MExico are University graduates. Even though, in the diverse activities that they provide to customers they are required to have (or not to have) some certifications from The Mexican Asociation of Bourse Institutions (AMIB http://www.amib.com.mx/). An AMIB certification allows a banker to provide investment advice to customers,. So yes, they are prepared at a minimal standard. Perhaps the "Issue"in Mexico, is that many institutions does not have clear controls regarding the match that must exist between the investors profile and what is being advised on their account.  

 

It is extremely important to understand what is being offered to you as an investment. Being CETE the only instrument that is almost risk free as it is government backed. Usually, a retired expat should expect to have a major part of its portfolio in CETEs  and some of your money in other investment funds. 

Now lets talk about the bank guarantees. 

Bankers can lose their AMIB certification and go to jail if they incur in major wrongdoings. Also, deposits are guaranteed in case the bank fails (please note the Only if the bank fails) up to 2.5 million pesos aprox. Therefore, The only guarantee you have from an investment loss is to consider which kind of instrument you are investing and the quality of such investment. Therefore, Never Ever, under any circumstance give a Mexican Banker a Power of Attorney to manage your investments at will. This figure is called a "contrato discrecional" in Mexico. If you do not sign this, you will be required to sign a paper, or provide a telephone recorded instruction for any investment you make in your account. 

How to solve customer complaints to banks in MExico:

Last, but not least. In the US and CA, any allegations by customers are usually solved by the bank before going to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau ( or equivalent in CA). Here In Mexico, things work out a little bit different. If you complain to your bank, there is a very little rate of success, but if you go to CONDUSEF ( The mexican financial consumer agency), you have a great chance of "winning the issue against the bank". Therefore, if your account is drained by a bank executive, or you do not recognize any transactions, you should go to the bank, ( & expect a denial of your claim) and afterwards, go to CONDUSEF, where your issue will probably get solved. 

Regarding Monex, I  assume that most of the damage was made by a banker making fraud by falsifying customers signatures, with such executive providing instructions to drain the accounts. Thats the reason why Monex is willing to settle the claims. IF the trouble had arised from bad investment decisions, Monex wouldn´t be offering to settle to customers as it is a common practice to open Discretionary investment accounts to expats in MExico. 

I hope this helps you guys to understand how things work in MExico. IF you have any other questions, I will be happy to give some more insights.

 

Regards

 

Guillermo R.

 

 

 

 

Hi,

I had my AMIB certification.  I doubt 99% of people working at banks have degrees (only 4% of people that start university finish), some have college but few actually have their aegree or cedula.  Most banks do not enforce or require their employees to have AMIB certifications which is the Mexican Association of Financial Intermediaries (it was named that when I got my certification as Mortgage Consultant).  Few people go to jail here in Mexico due to mistakes made by the authorities or due to laziness or corruption so when lots of money is at stake, nobody is your friend.  

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2 minutes ago, Intercasa said:

Hi,

I had my AMIB certification.  I doubt 99% of people working at banks have degrees (only 4% of people that start university finish), some have college but few actually have their aegree or cedula.  Most banks do not enforce or require their employees to have AMIB certifications which is the Mexican Association of Financial Intermediaries (it was named that when I got my certification as Mortgage Consultant).  Few people go to jail here in Mexico due to mistakes made by the authorities or due to laziness or corruption so when lots of money is at stake, nobody is your friend.  

Hi! 

I had an AMIB level 3 certification also, And worked in the financial industry for 10 years at several "Casas de Bolsa" (Banamex, Monex & Intercam). As you learnt in the AMIB certification (which is no requisite for being a Mortgage Consultant, as the only Mortgage certification in Mexico is provided by INFONAVIT and FOVISSSTE), it is a requisite to obtain an AMIB level I, II or III certification to pass an exam in which you learn lots of investment stuff.

In fact, Banks are very interested that their employees have an AMIB certification to trade investment funds, stocks, and so on as they can tell authorities that "my employee was responsible of the fraud, not me"

 

 What Does Happen., ( A lot) is that employees have very low ethic standards and end up committing financial fraud. (as the Monex employee surely did). Regarding people going to jail, I have witnessed such events, and know several people that had got in major trouble due to "non authorized trading in customer accounts", and can recall several internal memos in the financial institutions in which fraud was discovered and employees put to jail. Obviously, institutions do not publish such events in order to "preserve their brand". 

 

I agree that the best person to manage your money is yourself.... and that you should be wary of anyone regarding money wherever you go. (Fraud exists everywhere in the world).

 

Regards!

 

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44 minutes ago, Intercasa said:

...nobody is your friend.  

And that includes abogados.

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6 hours ago, AngusMactavish said:

And that includes abogados.

Even fewer! 

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