Jump to content
Chapala.com Webboard

New labor law requires IMSS be paid to domestics


Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, kimanjome said:

My question is more hypothetical: what makes her different than the pool cleaner, other than the fact that she works inside my home, as opposed to outside the building? I would assume  it is a cultural issue, because the house cleaner is to be considered more like a family member because s/he is inside the home. 

I would prefer to have her an independent contractor, just like my yard "guy" and pool service and Merry Maids were in the US. 

What you would prefer is not part of the equation. No, it's not a cultural issue. It has to do with whether someone has their own business or not. You hire a contractor to build or reno your house. The contractor is an independent contractor, the guys he has working for him are his employees because he tells them what he wants them to do. He has to pay their benefits, but of course this will be built into what he is charging you, but he has to do the paperwork for the employees, not you.

Just like Merry Maids is a business- they are the employers, the maids work for them. But if you just hired a maid privately, you are then the maid's employer.

I know I read the distinction between an employee and an independent contractor somewhere official, I just can't remember where. You'd have to consult a labor lawyer to find out exactly what distinguishes one from the other.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 71
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Just to recap, if/when this is actually implemented there seem to be several ways to deal with it - 1. Understand what is actually required and who it applies to, figure out how to comply with th

I am another one that doesn't want to take on the responsibility of payments for SS, IMSS, etc. If a worker is an independent contractor, this is, in my opinion, THEIR responsibility, not mine.

They won't be happy to work for less once they find out what the usual rate locally is. Just because they're poor doesn't mean they're stupid.

Posted Images

17 hours ago, Natasha said:

So let me get this straight.  In the country you  came from,  given any situation (employer, insurance, taxes,   purchases etc.)  that concerned you, if the laws or rules changed and would thereby make your cost for that "service" higher,  did you get to yell "Oh no!  I already had this under the old rules..... so I am grandfathered in and exempt from these changes!"  ??   Pretty much doubt that, but just askin' ........

Yes, we would say "Oh no! I already had this under the old rules..."  and we would think hmmmm, time to find a new service provider.

This doesn't apply to only Mexico.  Regardless of where I was living, if the cost of having a person working for me went up more than 10% AND required me to do more work, like  filing forms and keeping additional records, making trips to government offices, etc. I would certainly re-evaluate the situation. Especially if the primary reason for hiring the person was to make my life easier, not more complicated. 

What Mudgirl says is true: yes, there are differences between Merry Maids and our own, private housekeepers.  No argument there.   

My point is that I do not want to be Merry Maids,  and handle the employee(s) to such a degree that I have to do the bookkeeping, trips to the IMSS office to make payments, issue annual W-2 form equivalents, etc. etc.  I think most of us who have housekeepers do not want to do that, and if we have to, we will end our housekeepers employment and hire a service. Which, by the way, the housekeepers do not wantas the labor market for them decreases---who will want to hire an independent housekeeper, if it is so complicated? And the independent housekeepers realize they won't be receiving the additional benefits they have when working for a private party. Finally, many of these housekeepers would prefer to be independent because they will make less money working for an agency like Merry Maids.

 

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem with agreeing the paperwork and bureaucracy will be a nightmare. My issue with.....

"...So do we get any options or is this to be just forced on us? This was not part of the original employment situation...".  had nothing to do with that, but was with the implication that a government (or other agency) has no "right" to change the rules.

We do our own garden work, and always have.  But in the last year have used a contract service for cleaning visit once every 2 weeks..... and will continue to do so.  They cover vacation pay, sick leave, aguinaldo, and I presume finiquito for any of THEIR employees they may terminate. If they send a lady I'm not satisfied with, they willingly send someone else. Plus no cost to me if I have to cancel a scheduled day (away from area etc).  On a per visit basis costs a little more but worth it to me to be at full arm's length.

Suspect more of these "businesses" will pop up if  enough maids and gardeners find employers are not willing to learn the intricacies of the new laws and choose to go without. However am in sympathy with these workers, since there are no monetary  benefits as one reaches retirement for these low level employees at the moment, so this move IS a step in the right direction.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Natasha said:

Suspect more of these "businesses" will pop up if  enough maids and gardeners find employers are not willing to learn the intricacies of the new laws and choose to go without. However am in sympathy with these workers, since there are no monetary  benefits as one reaches retirement for these low level employees at the moment, so this move IS a step in the right direction.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. There will be more of these cleaning businesses.  BTW I have heard (word of mouth) that some of the cleaning agencies, especially in larger cities, will hire domestic workers from Oaxaca and Chiapas, the two poorest states in Mexico, and these workers will be happy to work for less than what our local housekeepers earn.  Will be interesting to see how this turns out.

  • Sad 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW...We paid IMSS for all of our part-time workers beginning when we first moved to Ajijic in 2002. The paperwork is not that bad and we just felt it was the right thing to do. YMMV

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kimanjome said:

Yes, you are absolutely correct. There will be more of these cleaning businesses.  BTW I have heard (word of mouth) that some of the cleaning agencies, especially in larger cities, will hire domestic workers from Oaxaca and Chiapas, the two poorest states in Mexico, and these workers will be happy to work for less than what our local housekeepers earn.  Will be interesting to see how this turns out.

They won't be happy to work for less once they find out what the usual rate locally is. Just because they're poor doesn't mean they're stupid.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to recap, if/when this is actually implemented there seem to be several ways to deal with it -

1. Understand what is actually required and who it applies to, figure out how to comply with the law, do the paperwork, absorb the modest increase in cost, and smile.

2. Get rid of your domestic help. Lose/lose for everyone.

3. Hire a service to provide workers on a contract basis. Not for me but already a solution for many.

4. Find someone to help or do the paperwork for you. There are lots of "facilitators" who are already set up to do these types of things and many others. I would assume there will be more if there is a need.

5. Decide if you are trying to solve a problem or prove a point. If you are trying to solve a problem pick one of the alternatives listed above or look for other similar solutions. If you are trying to prove a point, go for it. I find that stomping my feet and holding my breath is very effective. 

6. Have a nice lunch and a couple of margaritas, come home to a clean house, and say a little prayer for how fortunate we are to have a life where this is the biggest problem we have to deal with.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

What happens if a maid, who is supposed to work once a week for 5 hours, decides not to show up. The employer does not need to pay her, but is the employer, by law, still responsible for her IMSS, etc. for that period of time? What happens if the employee does not show up for two or three weeks, or even a more extended period of time, without communicating with the employer? 

I have found this type a situation, more so with maids than with gardeners, where the excuse or explanation is I had to take my child to the dentist, or go the the child's school, or, or, or and on and on. Of course, they do not think they need to call you to say they're not showing up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FlyFree said:

What happens if a maid, who is supposed to work once a week for 5 hours, decides not to show up. The employer does not need to pay her, but is the employer, by law, still responsible for her IMSS, etc. for that period of time? What happens if the employee does not show up for two or three weeks, or even a more extended period of time, without communicating with the employer? 

I have found this type a situation, more so with maids than with gardeners, where the excuse or explanation is I had to take my child to the dentist, or go the the child's school, or, or, or and on and on. Of course, they do not think they need to call you to say they're not showing up.

If I had a maid that didn't show up for 2 weeks in a row without calling, they wouldn't have a job with me anymore.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

If I had a maid that didn't show up for 2 weeks in a row without calling, they wouldn't have a job with me anymore.

My question was, do I need to continue contributing to her IMSS while the maid is a "no show."

Link to post
Share on other sites

The short answer is...Yes. She's your employee until you "make nice" with the authorities and legally terminate your relationship. If you don't know the law or how to handle it yourself, God made attorneys to help us.  Best of luck.

  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, FlyFree said:

My question was, do I need to continue contributing to her IMSS while the maid is a "no show."

When building a  house 20+ years ago, I had an accountant who figured the amount owed. Some weeks I had 2 maestros and 6 peons other weeks I had 4 Maestros and 11 peons. The amount went up and down with the number if employees. Every other month was a larger payment as it included a bi-monthly item or two. I paid the accountant the funds and he brought me the bank receipt before I paid the next payment. Then when construction was completed and I went to municipal for a finiquito IMSS sent 2 guys out and they measured and decided I owed $2800 USD as IMSS payments.  It is a fun learning experience to have workers here. Or at least a challenge.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
51 minutes ago, Honorandfaith said:

And just who is going to safeguard the large pool of IMSS qand nd other monies this generatews so when the workers need it, it is actually there?

Initially that would be Banamex and they will at intervals turn it over to the government. Then it's the gov's fiduciary responsibility. You know like our government that threatens to cut our Social Security Entitlement even though when they implemented it they said it would be sequestered in a special fund congress couldn't steal from, didn't happen. Funny they never threaten to cut welfare.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, geeser said:

 Funny they never threaten to cut welfare.

I thought food stamps, school lunches, and student loans have been cut in some instances.  Don´t know about rent subsidies but unemployment is at all time low levels so that can´t be a big issue now.

Which welfare should they cut?  Ag businesses just got a 16 billion dollar bump in welfare so I suppose they could start there.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

None of this is in effect and the details as to what applies to a part-time person vs a full time person are not available. I suspect it applies to only full time.

Social security comprises of IMSS, INFONAVIT (housing) and pension. To set it up one needs an accountant. And, for most an accountant to administer it. One payment is monthly and one is bi-monthly. 

Many employers are required to pay social security but usually small businesses such as a little store, a business of a few employees, etc. simply do not due to cost and typically administration not being easy. Employers also know, employees lack sufficient education to seek the benefits of social security or employees say give me a little more and forget it or they know others are waiting to take their job if they complain. 

As to IMSS when combined with Seguro Popular, they will have about 90 million members. So if anyone thinks this is going to increase a huge sum for a healthcare system that is always on the verge of bankruptcy, it is not going to happen. 

As to employee not reporting for work, a reason for termination includes more than three unjustified absences in a 30-day period. 

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sonia said:

None of this is in effect and the details as to what applies to a part-time person vs a full time person are not available. I suspect it applies to only full time.

Social security comprises of IMSS, INFONAVIT (housing) and pension. To set it up one needs an accountant. And, for most an accountant to administer it. One payment is monthly and one is bi-monthly. 

Many employers are required to pay social security but usually small businesses such as a little store, a business of a few employees, etc. simply do not due to cost and typically administration not being easy. Employers also know, employees lack sufficient education to seek the benefits of social security or employees say give me a little more and forget it or they know others are waiting to take their job if they complain. 

As to IMSS when combined with Seguro Popular, they will have about 90 million members. So if anyone thinks this is going to increase a huge sum for a healthcare system that is always on the verge of bankruptcy, it is not going to happen. 

As to employee not reporting for work, a reason for termination includes more than three unjustified absences in a 30-day period. 

 

 

Thank you, Sonia. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...