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... is back and spreading. Luckily ,for most of us, "those that were born before 1957 are considered immune, because, largely everyone was infected at that time, when vaccines were not available".

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/02/12/do-need-measles-booster-adult-vaccine-questions-answered/2846268002/

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The only vaccine i ever had were the original polio when I was 4 and the small pox when i went to college. I think the whole model for vaccines is wrong and Louis Pasteur repudiated his own work at the end of his life. There's an interesting pdf file on the internet entitled "Beauchamp vs Pasteur" written in 1923 that outlines the whole conflict of ideas on the origins of disease. Anton Beauchamp said that it was the Territory of the body , not the germs which were there for everybody. Pasteur insisted that there was a specific germ for every disease that had to be identified and killed. Pasteur was backed by the moneymen--the Boneparts--and so here we are. Many people connect the start of vaccines with homeopathy, but they aren't alike. Homeopathy uses the normal paths of infection and microdoses to stimulate your own immune system while  vaccines are done through the bloodstream. I find it interesting that many of the really bad diseases of our childhood like dipheria, scarlet fever and rhumatic fever don't have a vaccine or any recent cases. At this time there are more deaths from measle vaccine(500) than from measles.

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Over what timeframe does your 500 deaths occur?  Since the vaccination was developed I believe... and that was 'reported', not necessarily confirmed.  Only 1 death reported since 2015. 

The vast majority of deaths from measles worldwide, 95%, come from undeveloped countries which have little or no vaccination programs. It is my understanding that the current outbreak is most prevalent in areas where either for religious or cultural (foreign) reasons children were not vaccinated.... something like 85% of the cases reported were from non-vaccinated persons. 

Me, I'll continue to believe in vaccinations in general. YMMV

 

 

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3 minutes ago, RickS said:

It is my understanding that the current outbreak is most prevalent in areas where either for religious or cultural (foreign) reasons children were not vaccinated.... 

And parents that think they know more than doctors.

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49 minutes ago, cafemediterraneo said:

 I find it interesting that many of the really bad diseases of our childhood like dipheria, scarlet fever and rhumatic fever don't have a vaccine or any recent cases.

Reality check. Diphtheria is included in the commonly given childhood vaccinations. Due to effective vaccination programs, it is rare in developed countries and nearly wiped out world-wide. Both rheumatic fever and scarlet fever do not have vaccines and are common in many developing nations. My friends grandson had scarlet fever just a few months ago. We have better treatments available but the diseases haven't gone away.

If you want to hear some very heart-felt and common sense thoughts on the need for vaccinations, listen to recent interviews with Melinda Gates. She is publicizing her new book and discussing some of the programs of the Gates Foundation.

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1 hour ago, cafemediterraneo said:

The only vaccine i ever had were the original polio when I was 4 and the small pox when i went to college. I think the whole model for vaccines is wrong and Louis Pasteur repudiated his own work at the end of his life. There's an interesting pdf file on the internet entitled "Beauchamp vs Pasteur" written in 1923 that outlines the whole conflict of ideas on the origins of disease. Anton Beauchamp said that it was the Territory of the body , not the germs which were there for everybody. Pasteur insisted that there was a specific germ for every disease that had to be identified and killed. Pasteur was backed by the moneymen--the Boneparts--and so here we are. Many people connect the start of vaccines with homeopathy, but they aren't alike. Homeopathy uses the normal paths of infection and microdoses to stimulate your own immune system while  vaccines are done through the bloodstream. I find it interesting that many of the really bad diseases of our childhood like dipheria, scarlet fever and rhumatic fever don't have a vaccine or any recent cases. At this time there are more deaths from measle vaccine(500) than from measles.

This post has to be a POE? Am I right?  Louis Pasteur died over 120 years ago. I think you'll find that things have progressed a little since then. For example, it's my understanding that blood letting has recently fallen out of favour. So much wrong in so little space.

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Deaths from measles, as cafemediterraneo points out, are almost all in underdeveloped countries without access to clean water, good nutrition, proper sewage treatment, people unable to afford to go to a doctor, and where there may not be proper hygiene. Vaccinations do save lives, and it's wonderful that people in those places can be protected.

But most of us of a certain age all had measles as children, my own 3 daughters all had measles as children. Yes, quite sick for a week, but no one died. Chicken pox and whooping cough, as well. And letting the body fight off those diseases bolsters the immune system. If someone is strong and healthy, those diseases don't lead to hospitalization or death

What is interesting is that while the polio vaccine is credited with wiping out polio, polio actually disappeared at the same time all over the world, even in the many countries where there was no mass vaccination. The virus simply ran its course and petered out, altho there is still the odd case of polio here and there.

And all those tetanus boosters we're urged to get every ten years? There has never been a case of tetanus in anyone who has ever been vaccinated, even if they were only vaccinated once when they were 3 years old.

It's hard to know what information we're given is correct and what is driven by the pharmaceutical companies trying to rake in the $.

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5 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Deaths from measles, as cafemediterraneo points out, are almost all in underdeveloped countries without access to clean water, good nutrition, proper sewage treatment, people unable to afford to go to a doctor, and where there may not be proper hygiene. Vaccinations do save lives, and it's wonderful that people in those places can be protected.

But most of us of a certain age all had measles as children, my own 3 daughters all had measles as children. Yes, quite sick for a week, but no one died. Chicken pox and whooping cough, as well. And letting the body fight off those diseases bolsters the immune system. If someone is strong and healthy, those diseases don't lead to hospitalization or death.

It's hard to know what information we're given is correct and what is driven by the pharmaceutical companies trying to rake in the $.

" Also, vaccines do not make a child sick with the disease, and they do not weaken the immune system. Vaccines introduce a killed/disabled antigen into the body so the immune system can produce antibodies against it and create immunity to the disease. That said, it's not uncommon for a child to develop a mild runny nose and/or cough after receiving the flu vaccine. This does not mean, however that your child "got the flu." Also, because it takes about two weeks for the flu vaccine to become effective, and because flu symptoms do not immediately appear, a person could unknowingly already be infected with the flu when receiving a vaccination. Someone in this situation might assume that the flu vaccine gave them the flu, but this is not possible or true."

 

https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/vaccine_safety/misperceptions.htm

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Anti vaccers[sp?] should all be put away for child abuse of their own children and assault or causing the death others. Yes some of them have even killed their own children.

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1 hour ago, traderspoc said:

see link to doctors who oppose mandatory vaccinations

 

maybe they know something that we do not know

 

https://worldwidechoice.org/mandatory-vaccination-blog/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122668/

 

" The anti-vaccination movement was most strongly rejuvenated in recent years by the publication of a paper in The Lancet by a former British doctor and researcher, Andrew Wakefield, which suggested credence to the debunked-claim of a connection between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and development of autism in young children. Several studies published later disproved a causal association between the MMR vaccine and autism. Wakefield drew severe criticism for his flawed and unethical research methods, which he used to draw his data and conclusions. A journalistic investigation also revealed that there was a conflict of interest with regard to Wakefield’s publication because he had received funding from litigants against vaccine manufacturers, which he obviously did not disclose to either his co-workers nor medical authorities. For all of the aforementioned reasons, The Lancet retracted the study, and its editor declared it “utterly false”. As a result, three months later, he was also struck off the UK Medical Registry, barring him from practicing medicine in the UK. The verdict declared that he had "abused his position of trust" and "brought the medical profession into disrepute" in the studies he carried out."

Maybe they are full of it. That major anti-vaccination website I read some of follows what the UK's Socialized Medicine National Health System has debunked  every fraudulent claim it makes. The history of this movement is included in the link if you are really interested. All of mudgirl's claims are debunked as well including the false claim about polio. Check it out. It is a scam!

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On 5/2/2019 at 10:31 AM, cafemediterraneo said:

 At this time there are more deaths from measle vaccine(500) than from measles.

One would certainly hope that is the case, which establishes how powerful at saving lives the vaccine is. Actually, deaths are rare, if non-existent, from the current vaccine. All these diseases are fairly common still in Latin America, but rare NOB.

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It's easy to see why people die from things like measles, which is not normally fatal, in places where there is no real medical care, ignorance, and poor living conditions.

 40 years ago, while car travelling through Mexico, we stopped in a little village in Oaxaca just to get a drink and take a driving break. A young Indian woman, seeing that I had young children of my own, grabbed me by the arm and indicated that she wanted me to come inside her open palapa. I didn't speak any Spanish at the time, apart from basic words like agua, platanos, etc. She had one of her children lying on a mat on the floor, super sick. He was burning with fever, but she had mounds of blankets piled on him, obviously thinking that's what you do with sick people. I immediately started stripping the blankets off him, managed to get across for her to bring water and a cloth and started sponging down his wrists, behind his knees, and his forehead, to bring down the fever. "Mucho calor, peligroso!" I didn't know if they had purified water , so I got some from our van and showed her to make him take small sips, as he would have been dehydrated with all that sweating. "Agua, muy importante", was about all I knew how to say that was relevant. She was terribly distraught, of course, and let me take control. All of this took place over about 5 minutes. I indicated she needed to get him to a doctor right away or see if she could get one to come. I have no idea if there was one anywhere in the vicinity, or what was wrong with the child, but I still remember the desperation on the woman's face. In retrospect, we should probably have offered her and the child a ride to somewhere there would be a doctor, but I also had my own children to consider if the child had something super contagious. I hope the kid survived.

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2 hours ago, mudgirl said:

It's easy to see why people die from things like measles, which is not normally fatal, in places where there is no real medical care, ignorance, and poor living conditions. 

Not as simple as that. From the World Health Organization:

Quote

 While this data is provisional and not yet complete, it indicates a clear trend. Many countries are in the midst of sizeable measles outbreaks, with all regions of the world experiencing sustained rises in cases. Current outbreaks include the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Philippines, Sudan, Thailand and Ukraine, causing many deaths – mostly among young children.

Over recent months, spikes in case numbers have also occurred in countries with high overall vaccination coverage, including the United States of America as well as Israel, Thailand, and Tunisia, as the disease has spread fast among clusters of unvaccinated people.

Measles is one of the world’s most contagious diseases, with the potential to be extremely severe. In 2017, the most recent year for which estimates are available, it caused close to 110 000 deaths. Even in high-income countries, complications result in hospitalization in up to a quarter of cases, and can lead to lifelong disability, from brain damage and blindness to hearing loss.

https://www.who.int/immunization/newsroom/measles-data-2019/en/

 

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I think Mudgirl has the right idea. Polio dropped by 85% in England and France who didn't vaccinate. The virus had mutated to a form that didn't cause paralysis. The first vaccine for polio was defective and caused 30,000 new cases.  Dr. Wakefield studied gastric problems and noted a correlation between autism and the gastric biome. His work was too close to the truth and so he was vilified...

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 Dr. Wakefield studied gastric problems and noted a correlation between autism and the gastric biome. His work was too close to the truth and so he was vilified                                      

put away for child abuse of their own children and assault or causing the death of others

There are children that should not be vaccinated.....period. Not my opinion....absolute reality. My 2 year old grandson is the perfect example. He has serious intestinal/bowel issues. Children that have this problem should not be immunized! Children of parents with this problem should not be immunized! Children with seizure disorders should not be vaccinated. There are exceptions to every rule and blanket statements against parents that do every thing in the world, often to be more informed than their own physicians, for the health of their children  certainly should not be "put away for child abuse of their own children and assault or causing the death of others"! This is an abysmal thought and certainly not based in science or actual knowledge. While immunizations may not "cause" autism, children with various health issues can and have displayed autism like symptoms after immunizations. This is not fiction. It is a reality. 

When I was a child I was hospitalized for 6 days after my small pox vaccination. I very nearly did not recover from it and it took quite a long time before I was really healthy again. We no longer vaccinate here in the US for small pox but that supposedly "safe" vaccination almost killed me even though I never got  close to the disease.

No government nor my neighbor should be able  to dictate my health care decisions! Nothing is all black or white and there are many shades of gray to every issue. Misinformation on this issue is incredibly hostile to parents doing their best due diligence and creates a serious backlash to loving caring wonderful families. 

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An old friend of mine has been studying autism for more than 40 years. Her findings would indicate that the majority of autism is genetic.

Certainly children with compromised immune systems should not receive vaccinations. That is why others should.

I have no idea where you got the idea that polio virus died out on its own. Polio is still a problem in countries like Pakistan where misinformation is being spread by the anti-vaxers.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190503-pakistan-facebook-polio-vaccine-misinformation

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5 hours ago, MtnMama said:

An old friend of mine has been studying autism for more than 40 years. Her findings would indicate that the majority of autism is genetic.

Certainly children with compromised immune systems should not receive vaccinations. That is why others should.

I have no idea where you got the idea that polio virus died out on its own. Polio is still a problem in countries like Pakistan where misinformation is being spread by the anti-vaxers.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190503-pakistan-facebook-polio-vaccine-misinformation

Stop confusing us with all this sciency sounding stuff. Genetic? Who is that, anyway? Just some know-it-all with high degrees.

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On 5/4/2019 at 3:10 PM, MtnMama said:

An old friend of mine has been studying autism for more than 40 years. Her findings would indicate that the majority of autism is genetic.

Certainly children with compromised immune systems should not receive vaccinations. That is why others should.

I have no idea where you got the idea that polio virus died out on its own. Polio is still a problem in countries like Pakistan where misinformation is being spread by the anti-vaxers.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190503-pakistan-facebook-polio-vaccine-misinformation

Here's an interesting article. Might explain why Pakistan, among several countries who have quite high rates of birth defects and prevalent use of toxic chemicals, have a problem with polio. https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/environmental-toxins/pesticides-and-polio-a-critique-of-scientific-literature/

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18 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

Here's an interesting article. Might explain why Pakistan, among several countries who have quite high rates of birth defects and prevalent use of toxic chemicals, have a problem with polio. https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/environmental-toxins/pesticides-and-polio-a-critique-of-scientific-literature/

Anti-vaxers constantly read bogus nonsense and try to convince themselves that it's the only legit info and then bombard the rest of us with that BS. The earth is flat. Careful you don't fall off the edge.

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