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What does Chapala need more a parking garage or a sewage plant.


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I have been here in Ajijic 18 years. In that time ,I know of NO sewage plants built by Chapala municipality. How many homes have been built in the last 18 years? How many houses are due to be built in the next three years?

When I came here , I was told there was a law that all new houses had to be attached to the sewage system. My new house is under 9 years old and is on a septic tank. How did this happen? (Asking euphemistically).

Now, Chapala is building a four story parking garage. Is it needed, probably. Do we need sewage, water and road infrastructure, desperately! 

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We do need all those things Harry but the parking garage will generate money ad infinitum... perhaps the proceeds could go towards sewage, water and road infrastructure? Yeah, I know, silly me.

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1 hour ago, HarryB said:

I have been here in Ajijic 18 years. In that time ,I know of NO sewage plants built by Chapala municipality. How many homes have been built in the last 18 years? How many houses are due to be built in the next three years?

When I came here , I was told there was a law that all new houses had to be attached to the sewage system. My new house is under 9 years old and is on a septic tank. How did this happen? (Asking euphemistically).

Now, Chapala is building a four story parking garage. Is it needed, probably. Do we need sewage, water and road infrastructure, desperately! 

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http://info.ceajalisco.gob.mx/notas/nota_moderniza_ptar_chapala.html

There was one sewage treatment plant built/expanded you don't know about.

 

October 18, 2011

The Chapala Treatment Plant is modernized

"Due to urban growth and increased tourism in the municipality of Chapala, CEA Jalisco will modernize the Chapala WWTP to clean up all the wastewater discharges.

With the aim of cleaning up all of Chapala's wastewater and preventing it from being discharged untreated into the lake, the State Water Commission of Jalisco (CEA) made the decision to improve and update the processes of the Water Treatment Plant Residuals (WWTP) of the municipality of Chapala. Since with the growth of the Population and the high tourist influx of the weekends caused a destabilization in the WWTP, on passing their level of capacity and treatment."

Here are a few more in Chapala in operation:

 

https://www.ceajalisco.gob.mx/contenido/plantas_tratamiento/

"117. Chapala Ajijic San Antonio Tlayacapan - Ajijic 32 Lodos Activados Aeración Extendida En Operacion

118. Chapala San Nicolás De Ibarra San Nicolas De Ibarra 8 Lodos Activados Aeración Extendida En Operacion

119. Chapala Santa Cruz De La Soledad Santa Cruz De La Soledad 4 Lodos Activados Aeración Extendida En Operacion"

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37 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

I don't know about Chapala needing one but Riberas sure as heck needs a sewage treatment plant.

 

You had better specify where in Riberas you think there's a problem. I live in Riberas and so does Computer Guy. I have never seen raw sewage running in the streets nor have I smelled raw sewage at any time in the full three years that I've lived here.

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Parking garages are very lucrative, they typically start springing up like (ugly)mushrooms, usually private money backed. They eventually gut the old colonias so there is nothing left but expensive offices and restaurants. Sewage plants are needed I guess, but there are no real industries here contributing anything particularly toxic. What is needed here is some sort of parking lot on the edge of town, then a way to bring people into town, whether low cost/free shuttles, or more expensive electric cart rentals. This would require large areas of Chapala and Ajijic to be vehicle free, other than the electric carts - and there would be an almighty shriek about that among homeowners. Tough decisions.

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1 hour ago, Ferret said:

We do need all those things Harry but the parking garage will generate money ad infinitum... perhaps the proceeds could go towards sewage, water and road infrastructure? Yeah, I know, silly me.

Yep, lots of revenue.  Just like the parking meter debacle.  Money in pockets that is all it is going to be.

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16 minutes ago, Ferret said:

You had better specify where in Riberas you think there's a problem. I live in Riberas and so does Computer Guy. I have never seen raw sewage running in the streets nor have I smelled raw sewage at any time in the full three years that I've lived here.

Just because you personally can't see the problem doesn't mean it isn't underground polluting the ground water and flowing towards the lake.  There is no way septic tanks can work properly at the development density of Riberas.  Do your homework on septic tanks.

The whole lower end has a problem with high ground water and that ground water is polluted from septic tanks.

 

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"128. Jocotepec Jocotepec Jocotepec 80 Lodos Activados Aeración Extendida En Operacion

129. Jocotepec Chantepec (el Chante) El Chante 9 Lodos Activados Aeración Extendida En Operacion

130. Jocotepec San Cristóbal Zapotitlán San Cristobal Zapotitlan 4 Lodos Activados Aeración Extendida En Operacion

131. Jocotepec San Juan Cosalá San Juan Cosala 20 Lodos Activados Aeración Extendida En Operacion

132. Jocotepec San Pedro Tesistán San Pedro Tesistan 3 Lodos Activados Aeración Extendida Fuera De Operación"

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I had a tour of the Chapala sewage treatment plant several years ago. It seemed pretty substantial. Maybe it just needs updating and more sewage lines put into it. Sewage comes into the lake in many different places. I would vote for a parking garage.  

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I know all about septic tanks thank you. Both those built here in Mexico and those NOB and also about what should go in them and what shouldn't.  I would like to know from where you are getting your information and/or links to studies done since everything below the highway from Vista del Lago to Jocotepic has a high water table.

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I'm sure you know more than I do, I'm only a retired licensed professional sanitary engineer. :D

That water table is as high as the septic tanks.  Where do you think that polluted water that flows out of the septic tank is going?  No the liquid effluent from a septic tank is most assuredly not clean or pathogen free.  Septic systems rely on the natural treatment around the drain field to stabilize the liquid.  To do that, the drain field has to be large enough and that requires a certain lot size which even with minimum recommendations is far larger than the average lot size in Riberas.

On top of that, septic systems are generally not recommended in areas of high ground water precisely because they will directly pollute that ground water.

Suggest you google up "recommended lot size for septic tanks" and compare those numbers with the 1/8 acre, or often smaller, lot sizes in Riberas.  While you are at it do some homework on ground water flow so you understand that with the geology of Riberas the flow will be from the higher areas to the lower areas particularly since all of you in the higher areas have septic systems which are injecting polluted water into the ground.  That liquid is flowing towards the lower part of Riberas and the lake.

Riberas badly needs a sewage treatment plant.  Period.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

I'm only a retired licensed professional sanitary engineer. :D

 

In the military, you would have been called a turd herder. 😁

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Septic tanks here are two compartments and sometimes three with overflow baffles in between each, only the final one is open at the bottom. NOB they are one with a leach field. Since I can't even find what the depth of the high water table is here, I was hoping that you would provide a link. Certainly when they were putting in the septic system on the new house next door, they didn't hit the water table and the lake is at the highest it's been in a long time.

Quite honestly, I would be more concerned about all the heavy metal pollution coming in from the Lerma River.

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I really don't know how to make it simpler than this:  Your septic tank emits polluted water.  The purpose of the drain field is to reduce that pollution as the polluted water flows through the soil.  If there is not sufficient size to the drain field and the land surrounding it, this cannot work. 

Instead it just either flows down to pollute lower waters or if the geology is like Riberas it flows from high to low eventually merging with the ground water closer to the lake where the ground water is very close to the lake.  Basically all of you on too small lots in the higher part of Riberas are simply passing the problem down to the lower part because there is no way your wastewater can be stabilized naturally on those small lots.

Take a shovel down there and start digging in a vacant lot.  In a very few feet you will hit water.  That water is the same level as the drain fields down there.  Ergo it is impossible for the water to not be polluted by the septic tank effuents.  Don't drink it.  :D

Once again, please read up on minimum lot size, ground water levels, percolation characteristics and the actual natural treatment process that occurs in the septic tank and the drain field.  Then you will "know everything about septic tanks" and you will also know there is a good reason they would never be allowed in a similar situation NOB, Canada or in Europe.

Not only does Riberas need proper sewage treatment, all the plants discharging into the lake should be required to nitrify their effluents.

And yes the Santiago River is a huge problem.  I have been asked to assist the new Governor's task force for cleaning up this river and intend to help out in any way I can.

 

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I give up. Please reread my post... and I am one and a half blocks from the lake... as is the newly built house next door. What I was hoping for (again) is links to studies of coliform bacteria levels in the lake water along the shore... of course, that could be due to the herds of cows that poop at the water's edge too. ;) 

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Isn't the norm here to install what are known as cesspools?

To quote an ehow site:

Cesspools are considered to be dangerous to the environment and to drinking water supplies, and have been outlawed in many states.

 
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53 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Instead it just either flows down to pollute lower waters

I know MC knows what he is talking about - an old plumber once told me the only two things you have to know for his job was that s333t flows downhill and payday is on Fridays.

I was going to joke that they need a monorail, but seriously, if they could revitalize the old Guadalajara to Chapala train system into a tourist train, that would be a tremendous boost to tourism, without all the automobiles.

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Agree with bmh.  Let the private sector build the parking garages.

A train to GDL would be wonderful but probably not economic.  Just having bus service to the airport and to the new bus station would be great.

Ferret, no one has studied the ground water situation around Riberas.  Good thing, you'd all flee in panic.  I'm trying to teach you basic Septic system application 101 as learned over decades and with numerous failures.  Believe me when I tell you there isn't a state in America or Canada that would approve the use of septic systems with that lot density and ground water geology,  not to mention the complicating factor of 30 inches of rain in 4 months.

One of the things we have been discussing along with the Santiago cleanup is the need to sewer and treat properly all the lakeside communities.  Actually, the smaller ones can be served well by combined mechanical/natural treatment using inexpensive to build and operate aerated ponds.  I believe this would work well for Riberas if sufficient land could be found or created along the lake.  Much, but not all, of Riberas could use gravity sewers but lift stations would be required in the lower part.

There's a tendency among engineers here to assume that only fully mechanized treatment systems are suitable for wastewater treatment.  This is one of the mind sets I will be addressing in my work.  Assisted natural pond systems can actually produce fully nitrified effluents very inexpensively.  

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I would think major  projects  like Sewerage  Plants need major funding from the State and Federal govenments...that said the  exisiting plants are woefully inefficient...some years back a study found only 1 or 2 working properly  out of the 8 or 10 around the lake

Ferrett..maybe  people are getting confused with "grey" water which flows witth regularity on a few streets...also all the footings being dug in lower Riberas fill with water..that said , some years back when the property owner were approached ..who would be willing to pay the anticipated  connection fee for new sewer project, many owners expressed dis interest..The exact details  excape me , but perhaps you or CG remember 

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Have friends in lower Riberas and they have major problems with high water levels and septic.  Have spent a fortune trying to find a solution.  So yes there is a problem with high water levels and septic.  Actual experience should prove that 

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