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How will the US climate report affect Mexico?

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Yes, Lord knows we don't want to be open to opinions other than our own, right?  :D

Googling up "business leaving Canada" does bring up some pretty interesting stuff.  Try it.

Rather off topic though.

 

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I think I'm entitled to respond with a complete lack of supporting facts, just like that post. His opinion and my opinion. The truth is, if you Google "business leaving" anywhere, you will always get stuff. The same as if you Google "business investing" in anywhere. But truly, you cannot rely on a few stories to give you the whole picture. If we did that, we'd declare that everyone in Canada has already died from a poor health-care system, because of a few bad anecdotes.

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I suggest you google this topic up.  In any case, my point is he is entitled to his opinion without being labeled or insulted.  Just as you are.  If one does some reading on the topic, there is support and dissent for what he posted.  Very interesting are the data which show business investment in Canada hitting lows not seen for decades.  What about that?

 

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So you think calling him a Conservative is an insult? Okay then.

Like I said, there are data both ways, and this is no place to be a focal point for gathering together all news sources to debate such a heavily loaded topic.

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7 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

So you think calling him a Conservative is an insult? Okay then.

Like I said, there are data both ways, and this is no place to be a focal point for gathering together all news sources to debate such a heavily loaded topic.

No, I think dismissing his comment with a label and encouraging others to ignore him was an insult.  

Agree, this is both off topic and this is not the place.  We are a forum about Mexico, not Canada or the U.S.

Plenty right here to keep us busy.  :D

 

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I've watched this thread with a smile, I think this quote from H.L. Menken probably covers it nicely, the referenced article gives detail.

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and hence clamorous
to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

https://pjmedia.com/trending/new-u-s-climate-report-a-scientific-embarrassment/

Pretty much everything today has become politicized, this being a major example.

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1 hour ago, AngusMactavish said:

CG, give up arguing with the "Fair and balanced" crowd.

I need to take your advice. Now I owe you two.

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10 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

 Don't listen to him, folks.

This is terrible. Let the person have their say and let us decide if we believe it, or not. Who do you think you are?

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1 hour ago, ComputerGuy said:

So you think calling him a Conservative is an insult? 

No, actually I think that was 'a compliment. The insult was when you "ordered" people to not listen to him. I repeat, who do you think you are?

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Well, for one thing, in Canada our two main parties are Conservatives and Liberals. So there I was only speaking the truth.

As far as "ordering" people not to listen to him: my my, aren't we sensitive.

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Believe climate change or don't. You could end up drinking filtered sewage water like El Paso.

https://us.cnn.com/2018/11/30/health/water-climate-change-el-paso/index.html

Whether the world is heating up or getting cooler, an average of extreme cold and extreme heat combined probably doesn't change much over the time period of one year. But, those extremes taken individually are devastating as they are happening.

 

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No offense taken ComputerGuy, and I smiled when you called me a conservative even though that is not categorically correct.

The area of Canada that I live in certainly is in a prolonged downturn and some of that can be attributed to Liberal policy and lack of follow thru, investment is way down and companies are selling off and leaving. If you are looking for evidence just look at how our markets have performed since the liberals have been in power. My reality is that we have laid off 10 staff in my department in the last 3 years so Google or not we are feeling pain.

For the record I think Canada has very good healthcare, perhaps a little slow to get into but you will not hear me complain at this point in time.

As always, people have a choice who they listen to.

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Happy to have an offline discussion about Liberals and Conservatives, because it isn't specific policies that cause this kind of disruption, but Canadian politics here seems fruitless. And everybody, universally, is feeling the pain.

Besides, I note that people are much friendlier and enjoyable when the topic is kept off the table. Even amongst those who think alike.

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It's hard to believe that people are actually debating the reality of Global Warming Science which is supported by 97% of the world's scientists.  "Global" means taking average temperatures, so those that say It's Cold Where I Am so Therefore There Is No Global Warming.... are misusing the most elementary logic and facts.  What happens in your or my back yard is not an indicator of what the world average is!  The reason some areas have had much colder than average weather is that due to Global Warming, various atmospheric and ocean currents have been disrupted.  In North America, that means that the frigid polar air that should stay up there is coming south, while the arctic areas have experienced temperatures up to 50F ABOVE normal!  There have been days when it was warmer in Alaska than in Florida.  Such disruption over a period of time that a human being can notice it is NOT normal!  While many bury their heads in the sand over this issue, the fact remains that both Polar Ice Caps are melting causing rising sea levels AND altering the salinity of the ocean which in turn affects the temperatures of the once normal ocean currents which changes the local weather, often to unprecedented extremes such as hurricanes, firestorms, heat waves, droughts, floods, etc.  There is now a new shipping lane across the North Pole where there used to be solid ice.

I have lived most of my adult life in Northern California and I can tell you, the reason for the extremely catastrophic firestorms there is that for at least 25 years, CA has experienced unprecedented droughts and heat waves which have caused much of the forested areas to become completely parched and highly flammable.  25 years ago, you could go to the Sierras and see that about every tenth tree was dead or dying, and it's only gotten worse since then.  San Francisco, known for its chilly weather all year around started having lingering 100+ heat waves around 25 years ago.  The heat lingered because the normal chilly fog was no longer coming in so often.  SF used to consider 75 a heat wave!

The important thing is to stay abreast of what is happening in the rest of the world.  Or is that too "unpatriotic" to some?  I've been following Global Warming for around 25 years.  A nifty little daily blurb in the SF Chronicle used to notate weather extremes around the world, and they were piling up back then, but get little MSM coverage in the US so people are unaware of it!  Australia was revamping their building codes 20 years ago because of the increasingly steady extreme heat.   

Just for fun, I asked the head of the Science Dept. at the college where I worked (after I retired from performing) what the scientific consensus was about Global Warming and he said it is confirmed science, the only real question is whether or not it is too late to do anything about it, in which case,  maybe we are doomed, certainly the coming generations.

The only logical reason anyone would have for opposing the Science of Global Warming is that to acknowledge the reality of it is to acknowledge the necessity for countries to join together to do something about it.  The logical place to start is Clean Energy as the rest of the world is doing.  But that would cut into the profits of fossil fuel corporations, and there you have the financial angle...  

Here is a trailer for a great documentary movie, Chasing Ice, about the solid research going on in the polar areas to get hard evidence of climate change.  The trailer only shows the set up of the research.  The 2 hour movie tells much more about the actual results of the research which was much more than just filming the incredible drama of gigantic glaciers melting in 75 minutes, due to global warming.  What the researchers did was to take many very deep core samples of the ice which had many tiny air bubbles which contain trapped air up to 800,000 years old!  So they were able to ascertain how much CO2 was in the air at various different times.  Their final chart displayed normal ups and downs of CO2 for 800,000 years - up to the Industrial Age when it started going up a LOT and up to recent decades when it has spiked, of course, coinciding with the new weather extremes that we keep seeing.  CO2 is one of the atmospheric gasses that contributes to the "greenhouse" effect,  which was the name for man made pollution trapping natural heat which has led to global warming.  I think you can find the full movie on Utube.

 

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I agree about staying abreast with what's happening in the world.  For example, the total lack of sunspots is causing the temperature to drop in the last two years and that is being recorded and verified.  There is a population explosion among the "endangered" polar bears.  Glaciers have begun expanding around the planet but not so much the polar ice...yet.  The Chinese have become the world's #1 polluters while the U.S. leads in actual reductions of green house gases.  NASA is reporting the depth of the atmosphere actually shrinking from colder temps.

Yep, a lot happening in the world.  But not that hockey stick.  :D

Go figure

As for debating climate change, that is rather like debating sunrise and sunset since both are constants on this planet.

What does strike me is the lack of skepticism and constant digging for new information that good science requires but that seems to be lacking in much of this discussion.  Much of it is more like an emotion driven religious cult that relies on demonstrably inadequate two dimensional models and more than a little hocus pocus.  But you know those ideologically driven financial grants can buy a lot of that.  Skepticism is not so favored by such funding.

And equally absent is an understand of how the economics of the emerging second world is driving carbon emissions  now and while everyone looks at the mature and much cleaner environmentally first world, the big increases are coming from places like China, India, Indochina and the like, totally eclipsing any reductions from the mature economies.  As a result we have a bunch of people running around wanting to gut the clean economies while the dirty ones pollute on.

Go figure. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

I agree about staying abreast with what's happening in the world.  For example, the total lack of sunspots is causing the temperature to drop in the last two years and that is being recorded and verified.  There is a population explosion among the "endangered" polar bears.  Glaciers have begun expanding around the planet but not so much the polar ice...yet.  The Chinese have become the world's #1 polluters while the U.S. leads in actual reductions of green house gases.  NASA is reporting the depth of the atmosphere actually shrinking from colder temps.

Yep, a lot happening in the world.  But not that hockey stick.  :D

Go figure

As for debating climate change, that is rather like debating sunrise and sunset since both are constants on this planet.

What does strike me is the lack of skepticism and constant digging for new information that good science requires but that seems to be lacking in much of this discussion.  Much of it is more like an emotion driven religious cult that relies on demonstrably inadequate two dimensional models and more than a little hocus pocus.  But you know those ideologically driven financial grants can buy a lot of that.  Skepticism is not so favored by such funding.

And equally absent is an understand of how the economics of the emerging second world is driving carbon emissions  now and while everyone looks at the mature and much cleaner environmentally first world, the big increases are coming from places like China, India, Indochina and the like, totally eclipsing any reductions from the mature economies.  As a result we have a bunch of people running around wanting to gut the clean economies while the dirty ones pollute on.

Go figure. 

 

 

 

Which county do you think has the highest per capita pollution ?

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2 hours ago, Kiko said:

Your reference admits the counts are dicey and claims declines in only two of the populations.  Other references say counts are hard to come by.  Whatever, sure isn't a wipeout.

Per capita per smapita, pollution load from China is TWICE that of the U.S. and going up.  And you what?  You can't do a damned thing about China.  They want cars too and they're gettin' them as fast as they can.

I'll give them credit though.  They sure saw the U.S. coming on that treaty.  Played us for real suckers they did.  Just like the politicians who come up with this stuff but make sure they never give up their huge homes and limos and grossly polluting life style.  My favorite one of these is the guy whose house consumes more energy than a village while he lectures us.

Just sayin' :D

'

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3 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Your reference admits the counts are dicey and claims declines in only two of the populations.  Other references say counts are hard to come by.  Whatever, sure isn't a wipeout.

Per capita per smapita, pollution load from China is TWICE that of the U.S. and going up.  And you what?  You can't do a damned thing about China.  They want cars too and they're gettin' them as fast as they can.

I'll give them credit though.  They sure saw the U.S. coming on that treaty.  Played us for real suckers they did.  Just like the politicians who come up with this stuff but make sure they never give up their huge homes and limos and grossly polluting life style.  My favorite one of these is the guy whose house consumes more energy than a village while he lectures us.

Just sayin' :D

'

According to this the US has over twice the per capita pollution of China, but that difference will probably shrink as everyone wants cars and bigger houses and there are a lot more people in China without either

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

Yes, we can do something about China if we wanted to...stop buying products made in China when possible. 

 

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Time will tell about China.  China appears to be pro-active.

https://www.edf.org/climate/why-china-center-our-climate-strategy

Both China and the US  agreed to sign the Paris Climate agreement but then one reneged.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-paris-agreement-us-climate-change-donald-trump-world-country-accord-a8041996.html

 

 

 

 

 

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Why sure China signed it.  They got to keep polluting without limits until 2030 and the American taxpayer got handed a bill for 2 billion plus the US had to do even more.  Helluva deal for the Chinese, get a free pass for 14 years while your biggest competitor gets to be the bag holder.

The Chinese are real good at looking proactive while they take everyone else to the cleaners, including Mexico.  Meanwhile they are funneling those huge trade surpluses into quite the formidable war machine.  

Really, I admire them for playing the U.S. and really pretty much of the rest of the world for such suckers.  P.T. Barnum would have been impressed.

:D

 

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