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How will the US climate report affect Mexico?

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twelve US agencies signed off on this report in spite of the president' s opposition. Doesn't that mean anything?

 

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Not to me.  Government is hardly credible these days.  A herd of sheep full of people with agendas.  Only two agencies really have any climate expertise and now one of them is saying it is getting colder again.  The developing world's carbon emissions are going straight up.  We have no control over that at all.

Gringohombre nailed it Harry.  Deal with what you can change and don't lose sleep over the rest.  For example let's get behind this recycling and reduction of plastics.  Let's clean up our own town as an example for others.

Enjoy the moment and don't get caught up in chicken little.

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“The oceans rise.  The oceans fall.  It gets hot.  It gets cold.  There are too many people.  Huge numbers die from wars or plagues or whatever.  And life goes on.”

This is true. Life goes on for the lucky. As for the others, well, it’s too bad. People die. They suffer. They always have and they always will. Sometimes it is at the hands of nature or their own bodies. Sometimes it is at the hands of their fellow humans. However it happens they are suffering and dead. So, relax and enjoy the beautiful weather. If the weather stops being beautiful we have the resources to pack up and move. If that place doesn’t suit us we can move again. Besides, most of us are old and will be dead before very long. We will never be in a long column of refugees fleeing what is trying to kill us whether it is famine, war, plagues or the earth itself. We have the amazing privilege and good fortune to be able to shrug off reports and warnings and continue on our way, whatever our way is.

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14 minutes ago, HarryB said:

twelve US agencies signed off on this report in spite of the president' s opposition. Doesn't that mean anything?

 

Yes, it means that anything that gets in the way of business as usual' will be rejected by this POTUS. In other words, "follow the money".

Meanwhile, it sounds like our glorious climate here is not going to get "too cold" in our lifetimes and moving to a disappearing beach isn't the way to go, either ! Maybe we should think about getting some warmer clothes as an alternative?😉

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20 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Unfortunately, and why we try to avoid using ours, open fireplaces are gross polluters.  

Last winter was when I first noticed it seems to be getting cooler around here.  We were traveling through central Mexico in mid February and encountered record cold there.  Went to Mineral de Monte, evening temperature was freezing and neither hotel nor any of the restaurants had heat or fireplaces.  Being somewhat spoiled by the local climate we failed to take any warm clothes with us.  It was even cold at the pyramids outside of Mexico City but the hotel there did give us a heater.

Won't make that mistake again.  :)

 

Just found this from Senor Google:

https://toxtown.nlm.nih.gov/chemicals-and-contaminants/propane

As for wood smoke, it's "supposed" to go up the chimney, not into the room, si?   (naturally, some of it doesn't do as it's supposed to, so it looks like a matter of "pick your poison". 

Right now, I'm in my unheated office room wearing sweat pants, a heavy sweat shirt and a stole, with fuzzy lined Ugg boots on.  But there's no polluting heat source,  if that's a comfort.  Brrrr.:D

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It pays to check out the altitude before gong somewhere, Teotihuacan is 2000 feet higher than  Ajijic so it would be colder, at least it is usually dry. I was at Zirahuen this week end and the days were great but the nights brr... same thing no heat..

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3 hours ago, Bisbee Gal said:

Mexico has 2 large coasts and rising sea levels threaten both of them.  

Recent stories about how San Diego area communities are preparing for rising sea levels.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/columnists/michael-smolens/sd-me-smolens-sea-level-rise-20181125-story.html

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Managed-Retreat-Could-Be-Imperial-Beachs-Answer-to-Rising-Sea-Levels-501308331.html

 

 

FAKE NEWS!!! I grew up on a tiny spec of an island in the middle of the Atlantic ocean named Bermuda and still have family there. When I talk to my brother there I ask him "how is the rising ocean affecting you guys?" He just laughs and says "not a micrometer"  The island is only 21 miles long and average of 1 mile wide so you are never less than a few hundred yards from any shoreline. It is very flat with a few hills only a couple hundred feet high. If any place would would act as a barometer for rising oceans it would be this. As far as those who blame fossil fuel for all the earths ills, without it most of civilization would be still stuck in the dark ages, Where did all the great inventions come from such as electricity, lighting, motor and air transportation and on and on? Would you put yourself back in those days? I certainly would not. Be happy, don't worry mon!  

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Pretty smug, "I'm alright Jack" attitudes. It is the world's poor and aged who are suffering from chronic pollution and infectious disease - but who cares about them. Right?

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Why is it the deniers always pick one tiny little thing out of the whole global context and call everything else a hoax? Well, you blew it big time, gringohombre, by failing to do some basic research, and instead relying on your brother... I assume an expert in these things. You couldn't have picked a worse example.

Not only is Bermuda going to suffer, it is considered to be a watermark (no pun intended) for rising oceans: "The island is on the frontline of ocean change, exposed to declining fish stocks, an expected increase in tropical cyclone intensity and rising sea levels." In fact, the government is so aware of this, they just held the Ocean Risk Summit there this May.

http://bernews.com/2018/01/ocean-risk-summit-held-bermuda/

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I'm already an elder, and will not live to see the results of climate change.  My caring is for my descendants.  The "don't worry, be happy" attitude is probably not going to prevail in less than a century from now.  So, go ahead and "don't worry, be happy" if you like: the bill for all those wonderful inventions and conveniences that make life easier will come due.  It may be larger than our great great grandchildren can afford to pay. 

Same reason that I care about what happens in the U.S., and why I vote.

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Good...I am glad Bermuda is getting this needed convention business since again they recently elected the wrong party that is in the process of taking back the gains of the last. There is nothing wrong with discussion (we are  doing it here) but what I am saying that there has been a large industry formed around this and a lot of people are gaining from it. Who is to say that the people that decided to gather on this lovely (very expensive) island do not have mostly their financial well being in mind when they spew their views? It still does not alter the fact that this perfect specimen of place to see the reality of rising ocean level sees none of it. Now, ocean pollution is a completely different thing. This is caused mostly by farming and industry pollutant waste runoff, overpopulation and other causes. Now, if this convention would focus on that it might result in some good coming from it. 

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3 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

Good...I am glad Bermuda is getting this needed convention business since again they recently elected the wrong party that is in the process of taking back the gains of the last. There is nothing wrong with discussion (we are  doing it here) but what I am saying that there has been a large industry formed around this and a lot of people are gaining from it. Who is to say that the people that decided to gather on this lovely (very expensive) island do not have mostly their financial well being in mind when they spew their views? It still does not alter the fact that this perfect specimen of place to see the reality of rising ocean level sees none of it. Now, ocean pollution is a completely different thing. This is caused mostly by farming and industry pollutant waste runoff, overpopulation and other causes. Now, if this convention would focus on that it might result in some good coming from it. 

By, the way I was responding to ComuterGuy here who mentioned my post about Bermuda and his link there regarding a "Ocean Risk" summit to be held there.  

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1 hour ago, gringal said:

I'm already an elder, and will not live to see the results of climate change.  My caring is for my descendants.  The "don't worry, be happy" attitude is probably not going to prevail in less than a century from now.  So, go ahead and "don't worry, be happy" if you like: the bill for all those wonderful inventions and conveniences that make life easier will come due.  It may be larger than our great great grandchildren can afford to pay. 

Same reason that I care about what happens in the U.S., and why I vote.

Of course you will.  Climate is changing all the time and has done so for all time.  You are living with climate change every day.  The length of our lifetimes doesn't even qualify as a snapshot on the moving screen of natural forces on this planet.  As for the conveniences, we can already see the mess all this damned plastic is causing.  At least that is something we can impact each of us individually and in this community right now.

As for the U.S. they are getting so nutty up there on both sides we decided we are better off taking our chances here with the narcos and corrupt politicians.  :D

 

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People move, migrate, or die out in areas where the climate becomes unsuitable, or where they cannot find a way to adapt. That has always happened, and will happen again.  A three degree shift in average temperature will begin to change an area's flora, as plants cannot move. That includes crops, which may become difficult to grow where they are now grown. We are already seeing dryer and more diseased forests, due to some of these effects, plus the acid rain caused by pollution, which is having a terrible effect upon many trees; especially firs and pines.

The young don't notice much, but I am old enough to remember lots of bees, flocks of birds that could darken the sky as they passed.  Frogs used to be a road hazard on rainy nights, as their flattened bodies made the road slippery. When did you see your last frog?  They are like the 'canary in the coal mine', and their sudden decline is a serious warning.

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2 hours ago, gringohombre said:

FAKE NEWS!!! I grew up on a tiny spec of an island in the middle of the Atlantic ocean named Bermuda and still have family there. When I talk to my brother there I ask him "how is the rising ocean affecting you guys?" He just laughs and says "not a micrometer"  The island is only 21 miles long and average of 1 mile wide so you are never less than a few hundred yards from any shoreline. It is very flat with a few hills only a couple hundred feet high. If any place would would act as a barometer for rising oceans it would be this. As far as those who blame fossil fuel for all the earths ills, without it most of civilization would be still stuck in the dark ages, Where did all the great inventions come from such as electricity, lighting, motor and air transportation and on and on? Would you put yourself back in those days? I certainly would not. Be happy, don't worry mon!  

Bermuda has never been seen as being threatened with rising sea levels.  Neither have some coastal areas in other parts of North America.   But thanks for the red herring 🐠

Here is a link to an interactive map site.  http://globalfloodmap.org/Bermuda

image.thumb.png.eb2b93112d04e04ba7c1c7b2ba7b42d1.png

 

 

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I guess people just skip over the parts they don't like. Again: " The island is on the frontline of ocean change, exposed to declining fish stocks, an expected increase in tropical cyclone intensity and rising sea levels."

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11 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

I guess people just skip over the parts they don't like. Again: " The island is on the frontline of ocean change, exposed to declining fish stocks, an expected increase in tropical cyclone intensity and rising sea levels."

Sez who? I lived there for almost 20 years, my family is now on their 3rd generation and nobody has seen a cyclone...hurricanes yes but still at the normal level. Fish stocks have diminished but that is because of ocean pollution not rising sea levels since there is none. 

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2 hours ago, Bisbee Gal said:

Bermuda has never been seen as being threatened with rising sea levels.  Neither have some coastal areas in other parts of North America.   But thanks for the red herring 🐠

Here is a link to an interactive map site.  http://globalfloodmap.org/Bermuda

image.thumb.png.eb2b93112d04e04ba7c1c7b2ba7b42d1.png

 

 

A rising sea lifts all boats, right? An ocean is one entity...how could there be rising in some part and not another? Now to the person who mentioned the "rising sea levels" in the San Diego area, I would submit that this is an illusion created by changes in the tides which are controlled by the moon. Now the moons influence and atmosphere is also continuing to change, thus affecting the tides. 

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28 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

A rising sea lifts all boats, right? An ocean is one entity...how could there be rising in some part and not another? Now to the person who mentioned the "rising sea levels" in the San Diego area, I would submit that this is an illusion created by changes in the tides which are controlled by the moon. Now the moons influence and atmosphere is also continuing to change, thus affecting the tides. 

The topography of the ocean floor, tradewinds, etc. have an impact.   Good article here: https://ocean.si.edu/through-time/ancient-seas/sea-level-rise

Modern Sea Level

Measuring Global Sea Level

A diagram showing how NOAA uses satellites to measure sea level Satellites like JASON-1, -2 and -3 use precise radars to bounce signals off the ocean's surface to determine the height of the ocean, or sea level. (NOAA/STAR)
 

Global sea level is the height of the ocean's surface averaged throughout the world, and is what is often discussed in the news. Historically, it has been challenging to measure because the ocean's surface isn't flat; it changes daily or hourly based on winds, tides, and currents. Up until 1993, tide gauges measured global sea level. Tide gauges are usually placed on piers, and they continuously record the height of the water level compared to a stable reference point on land. There are around 2,000 tide gauges around the world run by around 200 countries. Some have been recording sea level data since the 1800s—and a few for even longer.

But thanks to satellites, scientists have gotten a better handle on global sea level and how it has changed over time. Satellites take much more comprehensive measurements. In 1992, NASA launched TOPEX/Poseidon, the first of a series of satellites that measure sea level rise from space. It was followed by Jason-1 and OSTM/Jason-2, and most recently Jason-3 which was launched successfully on Jan 17, 2016. These satellites use precise radars to bounce signals off the ocean's surface to determine the height of the ocean. "The instruments are so sensitive that if they were mounted on a commercial jetliner flying at 40,000 feet, they could detect the bump caused by a dime lying flat on the ground," says Michael Freilich, Director of NASA's Earth Science program. With this information, NASA scientists calculate the average change in height almost everywhere across the globe once every 10 days.

In 2002, NASA launched the GRACE satellites, which track both ocean and ice mass by measuring changes in the Earth's gravitational field. The paired satellites orbit the Earth together and are spaced roughly 200 kilometers apart. Ice and water moving around the Earth exert different gravitational forces on the GRACE satellites. The satellites can sense the miniscule changes in the distance between one another caused by the change in gravitation force, which they measure and use to track water and ice mass change. It's thanks to GRACE that we know where the water flowing into the ocean came from. According to GRACE, melting of ice in Greenland increased sea level by 0.74 mm/year and melting in Antarctica by 0.25 mm/year since 2002.

Changing Regional And Local Sea Levels

Although sea level is rising globally, in some places it is rising more quickly than others, and in some places, sea level is even falling. This type of local- and regional-scale sea level change is what is most important when talking about the impacts of sea level on people and communities and how to plan for and manage those impacts. 

Different places will experience varying consequences of sea level change for many reasons:

  • Some coastal areas are positioned high above sea level—such as Scotland, Iceland, and some parts of Alaska—while others are much closer to, or even below, sea level, such as New Orleans, Louisiana and much of the eastern United States. Coasts are constantly moving and changing, with inputs from tectonic plates.
  • Local geology can make land more resistant or prone to becoming saturated with encroaching seawater and eroding away. 

 

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5 hours ago, gringohombre said:

FAKE NEWS!!! I grew up on a tiny spec of an island in the middle of the Atlantic ocean named Bermuda and still have family there. When I talk to my brother there I ask him "how is the rising ocean affecting you guys?" He just laughs and says "not a micrometer"  The island is only 21 miles long and average of 1 mile wide so you are never less than a few hundred yards from any shoreline. It is very flat with a few hills only a couple hundred feet high. If any place would would act as a barometer for rising oceans it would be this. As far as those who blame fossil fuel for all the earths ills, without it most of civilization would be still stuck in the dark ages, Where did all the great inventions come from such as electricity, lighting, motor and air transportation and on and on? Would you put yourself back in those days? I certainly would not. Be happy, don't worry mon!  

You obviously haven't been to the many flat islands in Micronesia that are being flooded and the verge of disappearing. Some of the residents have already had to flee to higher locations elsewhere.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/as-pacific-islands-flood-a-climate-driven-exodus/

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Lots closer to home (I lived in Virginia for 30+ years), Tangier Island in the Chesapeake Bay is expected to be gone in 25 years.  

Tangier Island, Virginia

Quote

 

scientific study published in 2015 found that the residents of Tangier "may become among the first climate change refugees in the continental USA."

Other places have been abandoned because of storms and rising seas. In Ocean Breeze, Staten Island, most residents opted not to return after Hurricane Sandy's 16-foot-storm surge ripped through homes. The Native American community on Isle de Jean Charles in Louisiana has received funding to move all residents to a new location in the face of rising seas and sinking land.

But without dramatic and expensive intervention, Tangier Island will likely need to be abandoned within 25 years, researchers say. Once that happens, it won't be long until there's no longer land to walk on.

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, cedros said:

You obviously haven't been to the many flat islands in Micronesia that are being flooded and the verge of disappearing. Some of the residents have already had to flee to higher locations elsewhere.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/as-pacific-islands-flood-a-climate-driven-exodus/

Maybe those islands are sinking, There have been islands sinking since the beginning of time. 

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