How will the US climate report affect Mexico?

[gringal]

The Chinese were an advanced civilization on every level for thousands, not hundreds, of years.  It shouldn't surprise anyone if they are having our "leaders" on toast in the negotiation department.  I doubt they are concerned with "fair and balanced" news, either.  Engaging in a trade war?  Potential disaster.

[Mainecoons]

For whom?  The guy with the surplus of 360 billion or the guy shoveling out the money.  Most of that cheap stuff they sell here and in the U.S. can be made anywhere.  Mexico BTW already has a 60 billion trade deficit with the Chinese.  That's a lot of jobs being exported.  At some point, maybe an AMLO will notice the same thing the U.S. has.

Even the WashPo, certainly no friend of the current U.S. government, has figured this one out.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/trump-is-right-chinas-a-trade-cheat/2018/04/05/6cd69054-390f-11e8-8fd2-49fe3c675a89_story.html

Forbes, no great fan either:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cblock/2018/03/13/yes-china-does-cheat-in-trade-the-rest-of-the-world-needs-to-wake-up/#61ca5c4b6ed2

Now ask yourselves what is better for the environment?  Buying from cheating countries that pollute like crazy or paying a little more and buying stuff made where the environmental rules are advanced and strictly enforced?

 

 

[gringal]

Where are the environmental rules advanced and strictly enforced?  Curious mind.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/how-us-carbon-pollution-compares-with-the-rest-of-the-world.html

[Mainecoons]

Don't confuse carbon emissions from clean burning with other kinds of pollution.  Most U.S. carbon emissions are from cars.  The U.S. has very strict CO and NOx rules on cars and point sources.  The Chinese do not.  Why do you think Peking's air is so bad it is killing people?

Quote

According to the National Environmental Analysis released by Tsinghua University and The Asian Development Bank in January 2013, 7 of the 10 most air pollutedcities in the world are in China, including Taiyuan, Beijing, Urumqi, Lanzhou, Chongqing, Jinan and Shijiazhuang.

The U.S., Canada and Europe lead the world in pollution control.  Period.  Good read on the incredible reduction of emissions and energy use of transport since you and I were both youngsters;

https://www.epa.gov/transportation-air-pollution-and-climate-change/accomplishments-and-success-air-pollution-transportation

Mexico not so much but the Chinese make them look good.

 

[gringal]

Senor Google has more than adequate sources to show China is the worst of the worst for pollution.  No argument there.  My point was aimed at the futility of having a trade war with other countries, since no good has ever come of that.  In fact, it increased the problems the world was having during the Great Depression.  I fail to see how it would to bring manufacturers back to the U.S., when it's been reported that they are currently contemplating  moving the operations to other places where labor is cheaper than in the U.S.  They are looking at the bottom line, coldly, as all good capitalists should do.  Political rhetoric is not going to have much persuasive effect. A trade war with any country is going to hurt the average person. Even Christmas decor would go up, eh?😉

My mention of how long the Chinese have been in the game was to suggest that the bargaining techniques involved in "the art of the deal" are not likely to impress them. 

[Mainecoons]

Sometimes you have to get their attention, Gringal.  This cheating at trade and stealing intellectual secrets has gone on to the point it poses a threat to the entire western world, not just the U.S.  I am glad to see someone finally understand this and try to do something about it. 

You assume the manufacturing would come back to the U.S.  Some would but Mexico and other parts of the Americas could have it too. 

The point is these people are not our friends, they are using trade as a form of war against all of us, not just one country, and it should have been addressed a long time ago.  Our governments of all stripes have been fawning over the Chinese while the latter have been taking all of them to the cleaners.  This government is breaking the mold.

We don't need most of this cheap crap that ends up in landfills and floating around the oceans either.  You and I are both old enough to remember when we lived quite nicely without it.  And we can do so again.  In reality, there is little we get from over there that cannot be made over here.  If it costs more and we buy less of it, frankly I think that is good for the planet.

There is no free lunch.  Dealing with this will create some discomfort in the short run.  

 

[CHILLIN]

Maybe it would be helpful to hear from one the climate science specialists who actually worked on that report:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/five-myths/five-myths-about-climate-change/2018/11/30/9fba233a-f428-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9cc7eb6e5700

I agree with Gringal, the Chinese are/were master traders. Jack Ma, the richest person in China (and there are a lot of others) has been a member of the communist party since the 1980's. That fact always makes me laugh when people compare AMLO to Hugo Chavez.

[gringal]

" You assume the manufacturing would come back to the U.S.  Some would but Mexico and other parts of the Americas could have it too. "(Mainecoons)

I assumed the opposite.

" I fail to see how it would to bring manufacturers back to the U.S., when it's been reported that they are currently contemplating  moving the operations to other places where labor is cheaper than in the U.S.  They are looking at the bottom line, coldly, as all good capitalists should do "

 

[RVGRINGO]

HA!  Nothing to do with trade, but with the phrase, "stealing intellectual secrets".  I was a  USAF missile officer 'in the early days', and got my training at Redstone Arsenal, a US Army installation with a rather well known foreigner; the brains behind 'The Redstone' and other, later nuclear missiles, such as the Jupiter IRBM on which I trained and later served with abroad. He was Werner von Braun.  Even then, the 'ruskies' were also well ahead of us in rocketry, as they had already proven. We picked their brains and stole whatever secrets we could.  "All is fair in.............."

Now, we recruit and hire 'brains' from all over the world, mostly Asians, because we have to.  I think we all know the reasons why; unfortunately.

[ea93105]

36 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

 If it costs more and we buy less of it, frankly I think that is good for the planet.

There is no free lunch.  Dealing with this will create some discomfort in the short run.   

 

I agree and this should be applied to gasoline in the US I think. 50 cent per gallon tax would go a long way towards encouraging less fuel consumption and funding badly needed infrastructure rebuilding which resembles many third world countries. 

Right now there is yet another horsepower race going on with manufacturers. 800 horsepower Mustangs,  personal use trucks which can tow 15000 pounds being driven around as status symbols etc. Let there at least be a commensurate price for these toys

 

[gringal]

1 minute ago, ea93105 said:

I agree and this should be applied to gasoline in the US I think. 50 cent per gallon tax would go a long way towards encouraging less fuel consumption and funding badly needed infrastructure rebuilding which resembles many third world countries. 

Right now there is yet another horsepower race going on with manufacturers. 800 horsepower Mustangs,  personal use trucks which can tow 15000 pounds being driven around as status symbols etc. Let there at least be a commensurate price for these toys

 

Good points, but I can't help think that kind of gas tax would hit the lower income group the hardest.  Where I came from in CA,  real estate prices and rents were so high in the job intensive Silicon Valley to San Francisco areas that people had up to two hour commutes daily to work. People therefore drove fuel efficient cars.

Perhaps an extra fee on those gas guzzling status symbols could be levied.

[ea93105]

56 minutes ago, gringal said:

Good points, but I can't help think that kind of gas tax would hit the lower income group the hardest.  Where I came from in CA,  real estate prices and rents were so high in the job intensive Silicon Valley to San Francisco areas that people had up to two hour commutes daily to work. People therefore drove fuel efficient cars.

Perhaps an extra fee on those gas guzzling status symbols could be levied.

Maybe each vehicle should have a bar code. Pull up in a gas guzzler and the pump reads the bar code and adjusts the price per gallon. Seems doable, but probably harder than registering guns....oh well

 

[ea93105]

Hold everything. Increasing fuel efficiency kills more people :

https://www.motor1.com/news/260862/fuel-economy-regulation-epa-proposal/?utm_source=msn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=msn-feed

 

[Ferret]

Golly gee. Maybe we should put lead back into gasoline and just let the increased violence take out the gas guzzlers.

[RVGRINGO]

I am certain that higher gasoline prices in the USA would NOT reduce driving by a significant amount, for the following reasons:

Few people live within walking distance, with safe sidewalks, to the majority of their shopping needs.

The elderly, and those of modest means, may have only one vehicle. In our case, we had to sell a 30 MPG car, in favor of a 17 MPG crew cab pick-up, as the car could not meet our needs for moving, towing or carrying large purchases, trash, etc.  We can neither afford nor support a second vehicle, so must compromise.

Outside of our immediate residential area, there are no sidewalks and no bike paths. There are no pedestrians, as it would be too dangerous.  There is no real 'downtown' for pedestrian shopping; just huge malls. Even City Hall is rather remote from anything else. I would not dare to try to ride a bicycle from my home to City Hall. There is not even a 'back street' alternative.

Such is most of the current USA.  But, Guadalajara does maintain some very viable neighborhoods with shops and services. However, I think they too are threatened with eventual extinction.

[Mainecoons]

One of the really big pluses for us here is exactly what RV is discussing.  There we had two cars because EVERYTHING required getting a car out.  Here, for example this morning:  Started with walking up to our bank, then next door to a very well equipped Amutio for plumbing stuff, then another block swing by and pick up something at El Torito, then home.  Yesterday needed some stuff for tile repair, walked to very well equipped Lopez across from Farmacia Guad.  

Car sits here for days at a time.  Gas is expensive, yes, but we still spend less money on it per month than we did 10 years ago in New Mexico.

Of course this level of convenience is not available everywhere, if you live in one of the outlying fraccs, you are chained to the car again.

[Ferret]

Agreed. I put 500 pesos worth of gas in the car every six to eight weeks. The car is now 10 years old and I still don't have 50,000 km on it. No rust either (but then it seems to be mostly plastic anyway).

[HoneyBee]

Please buy a TESLA that will help fund my retirement !