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It's been pointed to here before, but as gringal says, not easy to find. And most definitely a law.

Why I would feel the need to make this stuff up is beyond me. However, gringohombre, you've been caught in your own trap, because you are most definitely making up stuff you apparently know nothing about. Again, just like your previous post.

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You know, I have had over 20 rescue dogs here since living here.  I know all about dogs.  All I am saying is "if I wanted to have a dental procedure done in a doggie environment, I'd have had it done

The law, much like other people's opinions, obviously means nothing to some people. So here's a guy who demands proof, is given proof, and calls it fake news. Sounds like someone else we know...

In my humble opinion i think the OP is way overreacting. First, if this lady is so attached to her dog it probably is bathed and cared for better than some humans. I happen to have two adopted "street

5 minutes ago, gringal said:

Not so.  There is a law in place regarding pets in places where food is being prepared.  Not easy to find it in the "search".  Spencer, can you help here?

There is a big difference between where food is prepared and where it is served. If the later, then there are a lot of people breaking the law, and I would have to see the actual letter of the law to believe it. And ComputerGuy when you say its "most definitely a law"; Prove it. Nobody is going to change anybodies mind here anyway but I am a free choice person and most laws prohibiting freedoms are stupid anyway. My last word on this subject...it has been churned to death here anyway.

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7 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

It's been pointed to here before, but as gringal says, not easy to find. And most definitely a law.

Why I would feel the need to make this stuff up is beyond me. However, gringohombre, you've been caught in your own trap, because you are most definitely making up stuff you apparently know nothing about. Again, just like your previous post.

I have posted the law in the Secretaria de Salud section in sanitation and have it bookmarked somewhere. No pets allowed in places where food is processed or in restaurants. A federal law.

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1 hour ago, gringohombre said:

There is a big difference between where food is prepared and where it is served. If the later, then there are a lot of people breaking the law, and I would have to see the actual letter of the law to believe it. And ComputerGuy when you say its "most definitely a law"; Prove it. Nobody is going to change anybodies mind here anyway but I am a free choice person and most laws prohibiting freedoms are stupid anyway. My last word on this subject...it has been churned to death here anyway.

Seriously? I don't have to prove SQ**T to you, bud.

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On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 11:10 AM, kam said:

In early October, Alaska Airlines decided to allow miniature horses (trained as service animals) on flights. I am considering a therapy wolf.

make it werewolf !

therapy dogs rules are being stretched like handicap parking permits...its what people can get away with

 

 

 

 

 

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I am amazed that some people were able to get from an anxious woman getting a dental procedure (we have no idea how serious or stressful) who brought her dog (maybe trained service dog - maybe just a great dog) to calm her to an entitled woman getting her teeth cleaned. How about a little compassion instead?

Then we went to the semi-annual whine about dogs in restaurants. Totally off topic. I don't take my dogs to restaurants but it isn't one of my serious concerns.

I fully understand allergies and can appreciate that people would rather not be subjected to allergy producing agents. I am allergic to many strong perfumes but I don't demand that other women stop wearing them.

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While in many European countries thousands, if not millions of people, are dying in the streets of all kinds of diseases, caused by dogs in restaurants and on trains there, I also have to assume that you dont eat at your houses, with your dogs living there.

And let us not even mention, (talking about the law) dozens of restaurants in colonia Americana in Guadalajara and La Condesa in DF, with huge signs "dogs welcome " and even dog food bowls.  They must have an ambulance ready to take sick customers to the hospital  ....

You are over focussing on the wrong enemy, when eating out.  During the night all kinds of "wildlife" turn empty restaurants into a feast and leave body secrements all over the place, but oh no.....there is a little dog under the table.

You "think" you have seen it all" .....   It is a lot worse, mein Schatz.

Rony

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No it's not but the conversation drifted into allergies. The law about dogs in restaurants is only concerned with food hygiene not about allergies. Still, a little consideration goes a long way when dealing with heavy application of both perfume and aftershave. On an airplane it's even worse.

And back to our regularly scheduled disagreement...

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1 hour ago, Ferret said:

No it's not but the conversation drifted into allergies. The law about dogs in restaurants is only concerned with food hygiene not about allergies. Still, a little consideration goes a long way when dealing with heavy application of both perfume and aftershave. On an airplane it's even worse.

And back to our regularly scheduled disagreement...

A few years ago I went cheap and took a combi back from Bucerias to Puerto Vallarta. A women got in at a stop with a huge amount of cheap smelling perfume and my stomache reacted with heaves and extreme nausea I had to hold back the vomit untill the next stop where I got out and caught a cab. This lady is a jerk!

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1 hour ago, Ferret said:

No it's not but the conversation drifted into allergies. The law about dogs in restaurants is only concerned with food hygiene not about allergies. Still, a little consideration goes a long way when dealing with heavy application of both perfume and aftershave. On an airplane it's even worse.

And back to our regularly scheduled disagreement...

What is interesting is that the fact that there is a  law on the matter is being ignored and the issue is being debated in this thread as though there were no law at all and it is simply a personal choice.  More than one poster has ridiculed the idea of anyone objecting to dogs being anywhere and everywhere. (Restaurants want that profitable gringo patronage, so they put up with the "entitled" ones.)  True allergies with very nasty symptoms (very real to those who suffer from them) are being compared to perfume and aftershave objections.    What does this say about the discussion/argument?  Plenty, in fact.  The many times this has been hashed and re-hashed on this board have gone .....nowhere at all.

Maybe we should return to discussing politics, or something. (Beating a dead horse emoji)

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1 hour ago, Rony said:

"...And let us not even mention, (talking about the law) dozens of restaurants in colonia Americana in Guadalajara and La Condesa in DF, with huge signs "dogs welcome " and even dog food bowls.  They must have an ambulance ready to take sick customers to the hospital...."

Rony

Rony, I don't know the state of things in Col. Americana in Guadalajara, but I do know the state of things in Col. Condesa in Mexico City.  I lived for eight years in the heart of that colonia and was forced to move to a different neighborhood less than a year ago, due to the Sept. 19, 2017 earthquake.  At no time did I ever see a "huge sign" "dogs welcome" on any restaurant.  I know ONE restaurant in la Condesa that offers water bowls for thirsty dogs, on its patio.  The restaurant, La Casa de la Yeya on Calle Culiacán near Av. Amsterdam, requires that all dogs be on leashes and that the leashes be hooked to large hooks on one long wall, far from diners but within sight of their owners.  Dogs are not permitted into the outdoor patio dining area--and are also never permitted into the inside dining area.

Could you give me restaurant names/addresses where you have seen those "huge signs", so that I can go look for myself?  I'm often in la Condesa and it would be no trouble for me.

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16 hours ago, AngusMactavish said:

Found this posted by ComputerGuy https://www.chapala.com/webboard/index.php?/topic/64333-it-is-agains-the-law-in-mexico-to-bring-pets-to-restaurants/&tab=comments#comment-508113

A little research brought me to Gringal's own post from last year, that she spent an awful lot of time researching, with a direct link to the law. http://www.salud.gob.mx/unidades/cdi/nom/093ssa14.html

Pertinent clauses: 5.2.8 and 5.8.6:

5.2.8 Todo lugar de almacenamiento debe estar libre de fauna nociva o mascotas, mohos o suciedad visible, se debe establecer un sistema de control preventivo efectivo así como limpiarse periódicamente y lavarse al final de la jornada.

5.8.6 Todas las áreas del servicio deben estar libres de fauna nociva o mascotas, excepción hecha de los perros guía, contar en puertas y ventanas con protección a prueba de insectos y roedores, presentar comprobante de fumigación preventiva de los últimos 3 meses proporcionado por la empresa responsable y donde conste el número de licencia expedida por la autoridad correspondiente.

A rough translation of 5.8.6 is "All service areas should be free of harmful wildlife or pets". And I don't see how there can be any discussion of what a "service area" is... wherever there is restaurant service, period. Kitchen, tables, indoors, outdoors, whatever.

 

16 hours ago, AngusMactavish said:

Found this posted by ComputerGuy https://www.chapala.com/webboard/index.php?/topic/64333-it-is-agains-the-law-in-mexico-to-bring-pets-to-restaurants/&tab=comments#comment-508113

A little research brought me to Gringal's own post from last year, that she spent an awful lot of time researching, with a direct link to the law. http://www.salud.gob.mx/unidades/cdi/nom/093ssa14.html

Pertinent clauses: 5.2.8 and 5.8.6:

5.2.8 Todo lugar de almacenamiento debe estar libre de fauna nociva o mascotas, mohos o suciedad visible, se debe establecer un sistema de control preventivo efectivo así como limpiarse periódicamente y lavarse al final de la jornada.

5.8.6 Todas las áreas del servicio deben estar libres de fauna nociva o mascotas, excepción hecha de los perros guía, contar en puertas y ventanas con protección a prueba de insectos y roedores, presentar comprobante de fumigación preventiva de los últimos 3 meses proporcionado por la empresa responsable y donde conste el número de licencia expedida por la autoridad correspondiente.

A rough translation of 5.8.6 is "All service areas should be free of harmful wildlife or pets". And I don't see how there can be any discussion of what a "service area" is... wherever there is restaurant service, period. Kitchen, tables, indoors, outdoors, whatever.

FAKE NEWS!!!...The final, final word

Lets round up all the offending restaurant owners, the little old ladies and their cute, cuddly, clean, well behaved little doggies and throw them all in the dungeon to rot in HELL!

The final, final,FINAL word

 

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The law, much like other people's opinions, obviously means nothing to some people.

So here's a guy who demands proof, is given proof, and calls it fake news. Sounds like someone else we know...

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5 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

The law, much like other people's opinions, obviously means nothing to some people.

So here's a guy who demands proof, is given proof, and calls it fake news. Sounds like someone else we know...

Is there not a difference between the "service area" and the dining area? A good layer could have this thrown out of court pronto. I have worked in hotels and restaurants and :"service areas" refer to where the food is prepared. You are on very shaky grounds here

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1 hour ago, More Liana said:

Rony, I don't know the state of things in Col. Americana in Guadalajara, but I do know the state of things in Col. Condesa in Mexico City.  I lived for eight years in the heart of that colonia and was forced to move to a different neighborhood less than a year ago, due to the Sept. 19, 2017 earthquake.  At no time did I ever see a "huge sign" "dogs welcome" on any restaurant.  I know ONE restaurant in la Condesa that offers water bowls for thirsty dogs, on its patio.  The restaurant, La Casa de la Yeya on Calle Culiacán near Av. Amsterdam, requires that all dogs be on leashes and that the leashes be hooked to large hooks on one long wall, far from diners but within sight of their owners.  Dogs are not permitted into the outdoor patio dining area--and are also never permitted into the inside dining area.

Could you give me restaurant names/addresses where you have seen those "huge signs", so that I can go look for myself?  I'm often in la Condesa and it would be no trouble for me.

I dont recall the name, but I did go there with my doggie about 5 years ago (when visiting Mexico City)..and it definetely wasnt the only one.  Actually, not far from Av Amsterdam.  When I travelled with my dog, I had to look for those kind of places.....usually also the more expensive ones.  By the way, it was very busy too.

Sorry..... only stayed there for a couple of days....and too long ago

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20 minutes ago, gringohombre said:

Is there not a difference between the "service area" and the dining area? A good layer could have this thrown out of court pronto. I have worked in hotels and restaurants and :"service areas" refer to where the food is prepared. You are on very shaky grounds here

This discussion was had and answered. Many times. Service area refers in this law to any area where an animal might come in contact with food.

Enough. Take it up with the State body that governs such things. You won't even take your dog to a restaurant, so why this constant huff?

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Gringohombre:  Don't you think that this would have been nitpicked and challenged long ago? 

That, and your post about rounding up little old ladies and pups is so far off the beam that I can't believe an otherwise sensible man would go there.

For some reason, when this topic comes up, people go to some ridiculous extremes.

I used to be a dog "owner" when I lived where there was room for it.   In any case, I never would have subjected a dog, with it's better sense of smell than humans, to being in an environment where delicious scents abound, but it wasn't going to be fed. IMO, that should be obvious as unfair.   I wouldn't be gross enough to feed it from my plate.  There is no good reason for people to bring their pup to a place where food is '"served", nor would I consider rounding up the offenders for eternal punishment.🙄

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12 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

This discussion was had and answered. Many times. Service area refers in this law to any area where an animal might come in contact with food.

Enough. Take it up with the State body that governs such things. You won't even take your dog to a restaurant, so why this constant huff?

I am not in a huff, are you? I am simply discussing a point of law when you will not admit to your mistake of insisting:

A rough translation of 5.8.6 is "All service areas should be free of harmful wildlife or pets". And I don't see how there can be any discussion of what a "service area" is... wherever there is restaurant service, period. Kitchen, tables, indoors, outdoors, whatever.

Anyone who has worked at a restaurant will tell you that the the "service area" is the back end work area where only workers are allowed not customers. Just to prove my point I consulted Lic. Google and found multiple affirmations of this including:

Service Area Maintenance

Per OSHA regulations, a restaurant must maintain cleanliness in all workplaces. Floors, aisles and walkways must be clean and dry to reduce slip-and-fall injuries. Specifically, the service area, which is prone to water build-up due to presence of a sink, should have ample drainage, mats, platforms or false floors to mitigate potential accidents and injuries. In addition, make regular visual inspections to ascertain floors are free of protruding nails and other hazards, such as loose tiles, splinters and holes.

I just don't like to be challenged and win, and then be told that I lost the argument. As i said, anyone who has worked at a restaurant will tell you the same thing...customers are not allowed in the "service area". OK. if a dog somehow finds it way into the "service area" that would be a problem but we are talking about someone who has control of their animal and is not in the "service area" but in the dining area. The owner of the establishment can prohibit this but you can't simply by saying so. As mentioned here there are restaurants with signs that say "dogs allowed" and some that say "dogs not allowed". What is wrong with that? I would advise you to drop your case since you will not only lose in a court of law but would owe me attorney fees. 

 

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It would be good if a "real" lawyer were to weigh in and give an interpretation of the law.  Enough "amateur hour" opinions, IMO.

When I lived in San Miguel de Allende before moving here, the health dept. decided to enforce the "law" and you would not believe the ensuing uproar among the entitled gringos.  They even held a protest in the main square, complete with a local socialite and her little dog in matching outfits.  These were the same folks who had held a "doggie wedding" in a local eatery.  However, the enforcement of what GringoHombre claims is not a law prevailed and, at least in 2008, there were no more welcomes to non-humans in restaurants.

Apparently, no one has taken the trouble to do much of anything about it here, but that doesn't change what I consider to be the facts.

As far as I know, no lawyer has yet weighed in on this wearisome matter.

 

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