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The Thriller dance is a world-wide phenomenon, and a huge charitable event.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating two causes on the same day. Doing this dance raises money for LOCAL charities. The fact that more faces are being painted like Catrinas  and fewer like zombies is actually pretty cool. To suggest that it somehow corrupts or abuses this long-implanted cultural tradition is near-sighted.

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Hal, sorry you thought I was being impolite. I was 100% serious. It's a job you feel strongly about, and really no one else does. Everyone enjoys both these and many other lakeside events. So take the

In our 13 years at lakeside; first on Ocampo in Ajijic, then on Lopez Cotilla in Chapala, we never had any children at our doors on the last day of October.  Halloween is NOT observed in Mexico and I

I am surprised that you seem to be  taking this so personally. There are numerous posts on this thread about the inappropriateness of Halloween and it's conflict with a very spiritual celebration of D

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5 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

The Thriller dance is a world-wide phenomenon, and a huge charitable event.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating two causes on the same day. Doing this dance raises money for LOCAL charities. The fact that more faces are being painted like Catrinas  and fewer like zombies is actually pretty cool. To suggest that it somehow corrupts or abuses this long-implanted cultural tradition is near-sighted.

Then I am nearsighted. I think living in a foreign community where your charity event insults the culture because of its timing and nature is a problem. That is my opinion. You could easily create another fundraising event that would not be rude to your Mexican neighbors. I believe it is shortsighted to think the end justifies the means when there are other ways to reach that end

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On the issue of Halloween, I miss very much being in lower Chula Vista on Halloween when the parents would bring their little kids in costume to trick or treat. It was a good opportunity to interact with the parents as well as the kids. I particularly remember a lady who had twins in her arms, a boy and a girl, dressed beautifully in handmade costumes, as an angel and a devil. That was 12 years ago, so things have probably changed. Now I live in a place with no trick-or-treaters :(

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Just now, Hal said:

Then I am nearsighted. I think living in a foreign community where your charity event insults the culture because of its timing and nature is a problem. That is my opinion. You could easily create another fundraising event that would not be rude to your Mexican neighbors. I believe it is shortsighted to think the end justifies the means when there are other ways to reach that end

You are the first person I've heard say that it is an insult. You do know that this thing wasn't created by anybody locally, right? In countries all around the world with Latino citizens, they celebrate Day of the Dead with street alters and parades, and I have yet to hear a Canadian or American tell them it's an insult to do it so close to Hallowe'en. Further, this is not a case of the ends justifying the means, not by a long shot. Feel free to approach the organizers of the event and let them know your opinion. I'm sure they'll stop, after consulting with the local charities affected, and once the organizers of the Muertos events see your point.

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I am surprised that you seem to be  taking this so personally. There are numerous posts on this thread about the inappropriateness of Halloween and it's conflict with a very spiritual celebration of Day of the Dead. That the Thriller event is held in a public place at the same time that the virgin of the rosary procession IS a conflict in the community and I am not alone in my feelings about this. If it was held for instance at the La Floresta Castillo plaza it could be a non issue, that it is held on the Ajijic plaza between the two churches when there is a very important religious procession is at the least insensitive. The fact that the organizers of this event as well as yourself see no issue speaks to the problem. I have no illusion that I can change your opinion or the Thriller organizers on this. This, as I stated, is my opinion and you obviously have yours. The difference is that I choose to present mine politely.

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19 minutes ago, gringal said:

I didn't attend the event, but didn't they move it to the Ajijic Malecon for the performance?

 

They had moved it to the malecon in the past. I obviously do not attend it but the calendar this year said it was in the Plaza once more

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2 hours ago, Hal said:

They had moved it to the malecon in the past. I obviously do not attend it but the calendar this year said it was in the Plaza once more

This is the announcement I read:

"Wanting to announce our Annual “Thrill the World” Event is tomorrow (Saturday), Oct. 27th at 4:00 SHARP. This year, we are performing the 6 minute “Thriller” dance in a new location. We’ll do a Zombie Parade from the Ajijic Cultural Center, down Colon to the Ajijic Pier. We’ll continue along the Malecon to the Basketball Courts where we will dance. This year’s charity is Cruz Roja. We’re helping raise funds for a much needed new Ambulance. There are still a few VIP seats with a tent covering available on a first come basis. These seats cost $500 pesos.

Following our performance there, we’ll parade to Seis Esquinas and dance again. Manix is setting up a lovely Buffet along the Ajijic Malecon and there are still tickets available for $300 pesos ($50 pesos of each ticket goes towards Cruz Roja). There’ll dance music as well so I do hope you’ll come and enjoy our fun Annual Event.

All proceeds go to Cruz Roja. I hope you’ll come join us for some fun, take photos with your favorite zombies and help us support Cruz Roja."

Guess you weren't aware of the change.

 

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11 minutes ago, gringal said:

This is the announcement I read:

"Wanting to announce our Annual “Thrill the World” Event is tomorrow (Saturday), Oct. 27th at 4:00 SHARP. This year, we are performing the 6 minute “Thriller” dance in a new location. We’ll do a Zombie Parade from the Ajijic Cultural Center, down Colon to the Ajijic Pier. We’ll continue along the Malecon to the Basketball Courts where we will dance. This year’s charity is Cruz Roja. We’re helping raise funds for a much needed new Ambulance. There are still a few VIP seats with a tent covering available on a first come basis. These seats cost $500 pesos.

Following our performance there, we’ll parade to Seis Esquinas and dance again. Manix is setting up a lovely Buffet along the Ajijic Malecon and there are still tickets available for $300 pesos ($50 pesos of each ticket goes towards Cruz Roja). There’ll dance music as well so I do hope you’ll come and enjoy our fun Annual Event.

All proceeds go to Cruz Roja. I hope you’ll come join us for some fun, take photos with your favorite zombies and help us support Cruz Roja."

Guess you weren't aware of the change.

 

Thanks Gringal. This makes me feel much much better. Hopefully them dancing across the plaza and then back to 7 corners did not interfere with the virgin of the rosary procession. It still seems unnecessarily close to the Virgin of the rosary. I don't understand why they don't just avoid the issue and move it to a place like the La Floresta Castillo Plaza. Plenty of room, plenty of parking no issue for anyone

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14 minutes ago, Hal said:

Thanks Gringal. This makes me feel much much better. Hopefully them dancing across the plaza and then back to 7 corners did not interfere with the virgin of the rosary procession. It still seems unnecessarily close to the Virgin of the rosary. I don't understand why they don't just avoid the issue and move it to a place like the La Floresta Castillo Plaza. Plenty of room, plenty of parking no issue for anyone

Good suggestion.

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Hal, sorry you thought I was being impolite. I was 100% serious. It's a job you feel strongly about, and really no one else does. Everyone enjoys both these and many other lakeside events. So take the bull by the horns, so to speak. The organizers have been doing it for years. Unfortunately, the fantastic lady who started the Thriller dance has since passed away, but she left a lot of supporters to take up the cause, and they have discussed the logistics as much as anyone, including getting the proper permits. Yes, that's right, permits are required, meaning municipal government involvement. If this was such an unwanted thing, it woulda been stopped right there, long ago.

Everyone arriving here sooner or later figures they can do it much better, that we're all backwater folks who've never tried anything before, that we lack the skills and tools to get things done. What they miss (because they are not really looking) is that if you don't see it, ASK FIRST. I guarantee you it's been done or tried already.

Hal, you'll know when I'm being insulting.

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As one of the long time Dance Captains for the Annual "Thrill the World" Event that Elliott Joaquin brought to Ajijic many years ago, I can tell you that we as organizers and participants are not in charge of the day/date/time of the Event.  This is set by the "Thrill the World" organization out of the S.F. Bay area and we are told what day each year (usually the last Saturday in October) and what time in relation to G.M.T. we are to do the dance.  We comply and each year have asked the Municipality if it conflicts with the Virgin of the Rosario Parade through Ajijic.  We have asked for and been granted permits to occupy the Ajijic Plaza, the Chapala Malecon and this year, the Ajijic Malecon (Basketball Court) as well as the small Plaza in Seis Esquinas.  We have always tried to be mindful of the religious Virgin of the Rosario and as one of the individuals who has participated in each year, I only recall one year (I believe 2016) that the Parade of the Virgin was coming towards Seis Esquinas as the Zombies were finishing "Thriller".  We did finish before they arrived and stood in silence and with respect.  As for tossing candies to kids, that has been done as Zombies paraded from the Ajijic Plaza to Seis Esquinas and this year from the Cultural Center, down Colon, along the Malecon and to/from Seis Esquinas.  At no time did I see any disrespect from the Ajijic Zombie Horde to the individuals walking to or from participation in the Virgin of the Rosario Parade.  

As I mentioned earlier, these two events are distinctly different and while one is religious and the other is secular, they are designed to include the entire community.  We continue to reach out and and encourage locals to participate in the Event, learn the dance, raise $$ for the Charity (usually Cruz Roja) and enjoy the fun of being part of an International Event.  As Event organizers, we always ask when the Parade for the Virgin is scheduled and try to ensure there will not be overlap.  As we start at the EXACT moment given by the "Thrill the World" HQ, we have no leeway in "start" time but it has never happened that we were to dance at the same time as the planned Parade.  The dance lasts slightly more than 6 minutes.  As we know, parades don't always start at the time scheduled and that's the one time we saw the Parade for the Virgin advancing on us in Seis Esquinas.

I understand if you don't wish to support "Thrill the World", Cruz Roja or the Event in general but I do ask that you learn the facts before making comments based on mis-information.  I believe we had 76 participants this year and look forward to being able to share the amount of pesos raised to go towards the purchase of a much needed Ambulance for all of us who live and spend time lakeside.

Many thanks for your continued support,

Zombie Val  :)

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57 minutes ago, thevalerieleigh said:

As one of the long time Dance Captains for the Annual "Thrill the World" Event that Elliott Joaquin brought to Ajijic many years ago, I can tell you that we as organizers and participants are not in charge of the day/date/time of the Event.  This is set by the "Thrill the World" organization out of the S.F. Bay area and we are told what day each year (usually the last Saturday in October) and what time in relation to G.M.T. we are to do the dance.  We comply and each year have asked the Municipality if it conflicts with the Virgin of the Rosario Parade through Ajijic.  We have asked for and been granted permits to occupy the Ajijic Plaza, the Chapala Malecon and this year, the Ajijic Malecon (Basketball Court) as well as the small Plaza in Seis Esquinas.  We have always tried to be mindful of the religious Virgin of the Rosario and as one of the individuals who has participated in each year, I only recall one year (I believe 2016) that the Parade of the Virgin was coming towards Seis Esquinas as the Zombies were finishing "Thriller".  We did finish before they arrived and stood in silence and with respect.  As for tossing candies to kids, that has been done as Zombies paraded from the Ajijic Plaza to Seis Esquinas and this year from the Cultural Center, down Colon, along the Malecon and to/from Seis Esquinas.  At no time did I see any disrespect from the Ajijic Zombie Horde to the individuals walking to or from participation in the Virgin of the Rosario Parade.  

As I mentioned earlier, these two events are distinctly different and while one is religious and the other is secular, they are designed to include the entire community.  We continue to reach out and and encourage locals to participate in the Event, learn the dance, raise $$ for the Charity (usually Cruz Roja) and enjoy the fun of being part of an International Event.  As Event organizers, we always ask when the Parade for the Virgin is scheduled and try to ensure there will not be overlap.  As we start at the EXACT moment given by the "Thrill the World" HQ, we have no leeway in "start" time but it has never happened that we were to dance at the same time as the planned Parade.  The dance lasts slightly more than 6 minutes.  As we know, parades don't always start at the time scheduled and that's the one time we saw the Parade for the Virgin advancing on us in Seis Esquinas.

I understand if you don't wish to support "Thrill the World", Cruz Roja or the Event in general but I do ask that you learn the facts before making comments based on mis-information.  I believe we had 76 participants this year and look forward to being able to share the amount of pesos raised to go towards the purchase of a much needed Ambulance for all of us who live and spend time lakeside.

Many thanks for your continued support,

Zombie Val  :)

Zombie Val- Well said! 

 

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8 hours ago, MtnMama said:

Thank you to all our Zombies. To our local grumpy gringos, turn off your lights and hide from a bit of multiculturalism.

The term grumpy gringos is completely false as is computerguys  assumption that I am new to this area. I am one of the few gringos in the area that you will find at almost every Mexican Fiesta and event and I do not live my life as if I am still north of the border or shuttered away in a gated community. I have been here almost 15 years lakeside and am not trying to re invent the wheel. If anything my objection is gringo events that are thoughtlessly planned with little consideration or respect for the Mexican community who was here long before we were. I knew Elliot and she was a fine woman. I understand that the Thrill of the world event happens at exactly the same time all over the world and local planners can not change that if they want to participate in the world wide event. I also appreciate that this event  raises money for local charities. I understand you have no control over the date or time but you DO have control over the venue. I can understand perhaps in the first years how it had to be in a prominent public place to draw attention to the event. That is not the case now and it is certainly a destination event that people plan to come and see. It could be just as successful in the venue I suggested in La Floresta and you could completely avoid any of the negativity that has become associated with it. I may be the lone voice on this thread but I assure you I am not alone in my feelings regarding this, especially in our local Mexican community. It is not in the nature of our local Mexican community to get in the face of the gringo planners and participants especially by the older Mexican members of the community but this IS distressing to them. Perhaps the planners have been unaware of these feeling but they certainly are not now. When you are planning to participate in a gringo event that glorifies un-dead zombies who are living in a kind of purgatory instead of the afterlife that is the base of the Mexican tradition of Day of the Dead and the goulishness on Halloween is put in the face of one of the most holy days and processions  as the Procession of the Virgin of the Rosary (the culmination of a month of fasting, prayer and masses); it defies logic that you could be unaware of the cultural conflict unless you live your life divorced from the local Mexican community. The Virgin of the Rosary Procession route is from seis esquinas (six corners)  to the church at the plaza and even if you endeavor to be complete before they march that route, we all know zombies do not just go home after the event. Why is that venue your choice when there are other options? I can not understand it or the push back I am feeling on this thread. To me it just feels like another example of "we are gringos and we do what we want" with no thought to others.

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Sorry, Hal, your comments are based on nothing you can substantiate, and you are truly grumpy. Especially when you say things like the locals don't want to get in our faces. Locals includes the municipal government that sanctions this event, and if you think they are easy to push around, well...

And making sweeping statements about the communities here just doesn't add up. Exactly what and where are these many gringo activities that fly in the face of the Mexican community? Sorry, but truly your story is so full of holes that I could take several pages in refuting your points, but at this juncture it just isn't worth it. Go peacefully amidst the noise and haste.

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3 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

Sorry, Hal, your comments are based on nothing you can substantiate, and you are truly grumpy. Especially when you say things like the locals don't want to get in our faces. Locals includes the municipal government that sanctions this event, and if you think they are easy to push around, well...

And making sweeping statements about the communities here just doesn't add up. Exactly what and where are these many gringo activities that fly in the face of the Mexican community? Sorry, but truly your story is so full of holes that I could take several pages in refuting your points, but at this juncture it just isn't worth it. Go peacefully amidst the noise and haste.

If you believe an 85 year old Mexican grandmother who lives at 6 corners and the public servants in town hall have the same core value I do not know what to say. I have made my statement and it has been dismissed and the your response, and inability to entertain any change tells me all I need to know. I had not supposed this forum would be the place to create a new awareness and it seems I was right. Thank you

 

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Good morning Hal, I will share your sentiments and comments with the Planning Committee as they prepare for next year's Event.  The Committee consists of locals as well as Ex-Pats.

Many thanks for your observations and comments.

Val  :)

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5 minutes ago, thevalerieleigh said:

Good morning Hal, I will share your sentiments and comments with the Planning Committee as they prepare for next year's Event.  The Committee consists of locals as well as Ex-Pats.

Many thanks for your observations and comments.

Val  :)

Thank you Val. I do appreciate your professionalism and willingness to listen

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On 10/29/2018 at 9:32 AM, Hal said:

I remember now from these posts that it was the procession for the Lady of the Rosary in Ajijic (not a day of the dead procession) that one year was coming to the church on the plaza and was met with gringos dressed as Zombies doing Thriller. Some of the Gringos got right in their faces and all their cars blocked the procession and they were throwing candies at the little old ladies walking in a religious procession.  It was horrible

I did the Zombie thing for 5 years because I have a background in Michael Jackson style dancing.  But there is a cultural rift here that the gringos are not aware of.  I walked to the plaza with my zombie outfit and make up on, and later explained to my neighbors that it was not a devil worship but an homage to Michael Jackson manifested by doing an international celebration of his Thriller video.  I had to explain the difference between DDLM and Halloween in the north which emphasizes the grotesque and evil.  For that reason I have hated Halloween for years even before I came here.

Frankly, I was put off by some of the violent looking makeup applications worn by some of the zombies.  This is NOT in the spirit of Mexico, although Micheal Jackson has many fans here.  DDLM is by far the richer, more beautiful celebration, and the Virgin of the Rosary Fiesta is by far the most fun choice for Oct. 31 if you happen to be in this area.  I always look forward to this fiesta and will be posting new videos/fotos.

DSCN5148.JPG

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20 minutes ago, ezpz said:

and later explained to my neighbors that it was not a devil worship but an homage to Michael Jackson manifested by doing an international celebration of his Thriller video. 

I thought wacko jacko was the devil after his past history . Not a person who i would care to remember.

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For 17 years we have given out treats to little ones and their parents on oct 31. Sure some of the kids are trucked in, but, they are still kids. Mexicans love to celebrate ; their hearts are huge. Have some candy on hand and if some kids come, cheerfully give.

Warning, don't let anyone over two pick the candy. You will be cleaned out in a gleeful minute. offer the parents some too. They will love you for it.

 

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