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petition to stop the building of apartment complexes on the mountain of Tepalo.


ARIBOY
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 I do not think that ejido and communal mean 2 different things . An Ejido or 'propiedad comunal' is an area of communal land which is lent to the people to use for farming and raising their families but remains owned by the government and regulated by Agrarian Law. An Ejido land is not private property and it may only be sold to Mexicans (by law).

President Salinas  modified article 27 to permit the privatization and sale of ejido lands but transferring ejido property into private ownership is a time-consuming process, and there are no guarantees it will succeed. There are a several cases around Lakeside where the ejido land was "sold" and the ownership is still  questionable and debated.

I just read El Cartero's post which I agree with.

 

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I know that that there are ejidos and there are tierras comunales.. I have to purchase from both and the people who are part of the tierra comunales corrected me when I referred to the place as ejido. All tierras comunales are not ejidos. The indigenous comunities have what they call the rancho in some pkaces and those it is the tierra omunal of the village and they also have land that is privately owned .

I deal with a comunity that was probably indigenous at one time but is not anymore. The people  there make bricks with the wood from the land , the clay and the sand from the land. They sell the briks to anyone but cannot sell the clay or the sand to anyone.. The wood cannot be sold to businesses either. The land cannot be sold as it belongs to the community and not the Federal government .

I also know an indigenous comunity where people own land but if they need more land to cultivate or build a house on they can go to the village council and ask for a pece of land. That land is for their use and that of their children and it is their as long as they use it. If the land is not used the community has the right to take it back. In return people who have comunal land must "cooperate" which means that they have to participate in the maintenanc of the land, They they have to maintain the land, volonteer in case of fire and can be drafted into service.. In other word they can have cargos  .. (non paid jobs like policeman for a year, in charge of working on the roads, on the water distribution etc , etc.. They have a paper that named them comunateros with numbers..etc.. 

Ejidos are comunal land that was given to  comunities after the Agrarian Reform. Ejido land can be privatized and sold but there is no status of limiitation so people can contest the sale down the road, years later.Generations later. 

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1 hour ago, kgreenbury said:

Can we go back to the petition briefly? There are others, I'm sure, who would sign if it was circulated more widely - maybe at the Mon./Wed. tianguis or outside Superlake/Walmart/Sorianas for a day or two? 

Do folks , read Gringos, really  believe they have  a any chance of making a difference in signing this petition....maybe it will make you feel good and voice your position at the next Red Hats meeting...why not a protest parade in front of city hall

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Look, if people feel the need to try, then that's important. Newcomers who haven't been beaten down yet are always going to do this. I've been beaten down a long time ago, yet every so often: surprise! Like wow, every power pole in Riberas and all the CFE cabling being replaced, even under the negative budget. And a professional job, to boot. Win! Downside: cutting all the branches in the way and leaving them on the street, because "it's not our job".

In this particular case, there is basically no written or official information, and a lot of muni tap-dancing, so all we know for sure is that something is going on. It would be nice to find out.

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I certainly don't see any reason NOT to sign the petition--can't hurt, might help, provides a good basis to meet with the authorities on the issue. Remember, the last project started on the mountains (the gash up the mountain by the libramiento) got stopped. it would be nice to get this one stopped before further development occurs.

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It is not a petition but an oportunity to be in the network that will send news on the project. Only the Mexicans can sign the petition . It is a chance to to let the new government how the population that lives here and spends money here feels about the project but it is not an official petition.

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After years of people complaining about branches causing power outages in Ajijic , I called CFE and asked them to trim the trees. Next day they did it. Then they left the branches. Called the next day and they came and removed them. It might take several complaints and documentation thereof. Then go to Hector and/or juan Ramon, if nothing is done .

I have forwarded Taaffe's comments to a mexican lawyer who is part of the indian community. he says they have rights separate from ejido. He was also at the plaza meeting and is concerned about building on land not owned by the builders.

The position of the municipality is that no one has received or even applied for any approvals from them. The state gov doesn't change until january and is a different party from the municipality. Who knows what they have done or will do before being out.

 

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8 hours ago, JayBearII said:

I certainly don't see any reason NOT to sign the petition--can't hurt, might help, provides a good basis to meet with the authorities on the issue. Remember, the last project started on the mountains (the gash up the mountain by the libramiento) got stopped. it would be nice to get this one stopped before further development occurs.

JayBearII, which development was stopped? ("The gash up the mountain..."). The winding road off the Libramiento leads to Las Minas (I think that is the name) and when I have walked up there, they were still working on it.

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EL Cartero and Islander, I have an indigenous godson from Chiapas who just got home and this is how he defines ejido and communal land also known as indigenous land. The ejido land was a redistribution of land after the revolution  and it is part of the agrarian reform

Communal land goes way back and were lands granted to the indigenous by the Spanish crown. Basically the Spaniards recognized  or gave the rights to indigenous to live on their land. That land belongs to the whole communauty. Within indigenous municipality or communauties some land is also owned privatly. That land is sometimes referred to as Indigenous land. Withing indigenous communauties you can also encounter ejido but that land was distribute at a later date.

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Thank you Bisbee Girl for this link, which is for an adjacent lot to the one in question. It looks like the rush yo build on the mountain is in full gear. 

Im told the link above is an area very prone to landslides and do inappropriate for construction 

We are waiting for an official letter Wednesday from the authorities st which time I will let people know how they can show their support to keep this area green

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14 hours ago, Taaffe said:

Thank you Bisbee Girl for this link, which is for an adjacent lot to the one in question. It looks like the rush yo build on the mountain is in full gear. 

Im told the link above is an area very prone to landslides and do inappropriate for construction 

We are waiting for an official letter Wednesday from the authorities st which time I will let people know how they can show their support to keep this area green

 

14 hours ago, Taaffe said:

Thank you Bisbee Girl for this link, which is for an adjacent lot to the one in question. It looks like the rush yo build on the mountain is in full gear. 

Im told the link above is an area very prone to landslides and do inappropriate for construction 

We are waiting for an official letter Wednesday from the authorities st which time I will let people know how they can show their support to keep this area green

This would not be the first, or I suspect the last property, to be built on area very prone to landslides and do inappropriate for construction 

 My thoughts..If it happens it happens and nothing you or others will make the slightest difference, period , but if it makes you feel better go for it, but do not loose any sleep over it..

 

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i have talked to Hector,our community liaison,  about this may or may not be project. He is confident that should it come to pass, our community will be united in opposition. If enough people stand up, we can make anything happen. We just need to realize that. It is in Mexican genes to avoid controversy. We just need to use that.

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1 hour ago, HarryB said:

i have talked to Hector,our community liaison,  about this may or may not be project. He is confident that should it come to pass, our community will be united in opposition. If enough people stand up, we can make anything happen. We just need to realize that. It is in Mexican genes to avoid controversy. We just need to use that.

Harry what is the position of the new government regarding this?  Will they be united in opposition to it?

Thanks.

 

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