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CHAPALA, a failed city??


lakeside7

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There are plenty of materials available for people who want to learn more about this topic.  Here are a few:

1.  The Revenue Law ("income budget") of Chapala for 2018
https://periodicooficial.jalisco.gob.mx/sites/periodicooficial.jalisco.gob.mx/files/chapala_22.pdf

2. Fiscal decentralization in Mexico.  Fausto Hernández Trillo, et.al.  The Inter-American Development Bank.  April 2002.
"State and municipal governments rely on intergovernmental transfers as their main income source.  States and municipalities only collect a small portion of their revenues and depend on the federal government for the rest."
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/6441893.pdf

3. Achievements and Challenges of Fiscal Decentralization: Lessons from Mexico.  World Bank Publications.  May 2000.
"Across Mexico, transfers from the federal government account for approximately 63% percent of municipal revenue, while taxes (mostly property) and fees/surcharges make up only eleven and ten percent respectively.  The remaining sixteen percent of the municipal budget is made up of a combination of funds from discretionary grants from the federal government as well as monies generated from the sale or lease of state-owned property."
http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/618221468774644627/Achievements-and-challenges-of-fiscal-decentralization-lessons-from-Mexico

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1 hour ago, Brian Dalziel said:

There are plenty of materials available for people who want to learn more about this topic.  Here are a few:

1.  The Revenue Law ("income budget") of Chapala for 2018
https://periodicooficial.jalisco.gob.mx/sites/periodicooficial.jalisco.gob.mx/files/chapala_22.pdf

2. Fiscal decentralization in Mexico.  Fausto Hernández Trillo, et.al.  The Inter-American Development Bank.  April 2002.
"State and municipal governments rely on intergovernmental transfers as their main income source.  States and municipalities only collect a small portion of their revenues and depend on the federal government for the rest."
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/6441893.pdf

3. Achievements and Challenges of Fiscal Decentralization: Lessons from Mexico.  World Bank Publications.  May 2000.
"Across Mexico, transfers from the federal government account for approximately 63% percent of municipal revenue, while taxes (mostly property) and fees/surcharges make up only eleven and ten percent respectively.  The remaining sixteen percent of the municipal budget is made up of a combination of funds from discretionary grants from the federal government as well as monies generated from the sale or lease of state-owned property."
http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/618221468774644627/Achievements-and-challenges-of-fiscal-decentralization-lessons-from-Mexico

According to the Municipio de Chapala budget (plans) in their fiscal budget for 2018 . There is no way it gets 70 percent of it's operating revenue from property taxes. It is also not a very large amount of money, actually it is a small amount of money yearly; so Chapala is anything but rich. Predial Urbanos pay 0.25 % of the value of the construction and lot. A house worth $8,000,000 = $20,000 pesos or $1,040 USD. In the US or Canada it would be $4,324 USD or more if it was in Canada in CDN. In SLP we probably would pay for predial 1/3 of that.

This transparent  2018 budget PDF file certainly supports moreliana's view of what governments tell the people to keep them guessing.

Impuesto Predial Sector Urbano $ 30,695,468.00

Impuesto Predial Sector Rústico $ 1,096,684.00

Total property taxes:  $32,792,152 or 14% of the total payments Chapala recieves in 2018.

Total payments $ 231,130,740.00

 

 

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1 hour ago, AlanMexicali said:

According to the Municipio de Chapala budget (plans) in their fiscal budget for 2018 there is no way Chula Vista fracc property taxes are high and pays anywhere close to one million pesos per year in " predial " - property taxes. There is no way it gets 70 percent of it's operating revenue from property taxes. It is also not a very large amount of money, actually it is a small amount of money yearly; so Chapala is anything but rich.

This transparent  2018 budget PDF file certainly supports moreliana's view of what governments tell the people to keep them guessing.

 

Feel free to back this up with references.  

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23 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Feel free to back this up with references.  

" Impuesto Predial Sector Urbano $ 30,695,468.00

Impuesto Predial Sector Rústico $ 1,096,684.00

Total property taxes:  $32,792,152 or 14% of the total payments Chapala recieves in 2018.

Total payments $ 231,130,740.00

Some revenues aren´t in this budget plan as they haven´t even started the 2018 year yet as it was published the 17th. of Dec. 2017  like:

Fines ** -
Federal Maritime Land Zone -
Agreement on the Lodging Tax -
Other Income from Administrative Collaboration -
Donations, Inheritances and Legacies in Favor of the Municipality -
Land -
Sponsorships -
Vacant Property -
Compensation "
 
and more.
When I calculated the higher than ever property tax rate in Chapala I deleted that Chula Vista fracc. could not pay a million pesos in property taxes but if there are 100 houses worth $8,000,000 pesos it would be $1,00,000 pesos 45 minutes ago but you seem to have quoted the unedited post of mine 21 minutes ago. :D
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From Brian's reference;

Quote

PROYECCION INGRESOS 2018 IMPUESTOS $ 49,744,380.00 Impuesto Predial Sector Urbano $ 30,695,468.00 Impuesto Predial Sector Rústico $ 1,096,684.00

Your numbers don't agree with this.  All impuestos add up to 50 million.  Now what is the actual expenditures for municipal operations alone, not schools, capital projects or the like?

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

From Brian's reference;

Your numbers don't agree with this.  All impuestos add up to 50 million.  Now what is the actual expenditures for municipal operations alone, not schools, capital projects or the like?

 

 

Schools, police etc. are not in the budget. They are supported directly from the outside. Capital projects are and financed from money given to Chapala plus programs for the underprivilaged etc. I suposse if you stripped away anything given to Chapala from the federal and state governments not directly related to their share of IVA and SAT taxes ( to pay for municipal and county expenses) and the revenue generated by Chapala including predial it might have an operating expense paid for by the by far the largest sum which is predial payments next to IVA and SAT payments and could possibly account for 70 percent. IVA and SAT payments are not large because of the small population but operating expenses are high because of all that they have there compared to other municipios that size probably where predial taxes are about 1/3 of Chapala's. So living in Chapala and owning property costs more. It almost feels like the government of Chapala had a good reason to triple predial taxes in the last dozen years or go broke. Possibly transient residents on FMMs don't add much to the coffers of the government by not being in the census and they might not own but rent and only add to local's revenue.

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There's no reason for them to go broke other than corruption and/or ineptitude.  Take your pick, plenty of both to go around here.

As one who lives here full time I am grateful my Mexican neighbors had enough and voted for reform this time.  Now we'll see if it happens.  

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4 hours ago, SunFan said:

Alan there are almost 300 homes in Chula Vista. If 3,500 pesos per home were an average predial that's the million pesos to the Chapala treasury right there.

SunFan

Yes I figured that out. Thanks. 0.025 percent is very high for Mexico only comparable to Cuernavaca in the state of Morelos I have heard of and maybe more places. Possibly they are in the same position as Chapala. There is in the Mexican Constitution clauses called the rights of inheritance - Patrimonio Law - that limits government from charging citizens excessive amounts of money to keep a home in Mexico. It is possible these municipios are doing it illegaly and a lawyer could fight it. I guess that depends on what amount is considered excessive.

 

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52 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

There's no reason for them to go broke other than corruption and/or ineptitude.  Take your pick, plenty of both to go around here.

As one who lives here full time I am grateful my Mexican neighbors had enough and voted for reform this time.  Now we'll see if it happens.  

They aren't broke. They are paying off the huge loan. They only raised predial taxes to 3Xs normal in about 10 years and passed their escalating operating expenses on to all residents including the working class homeowners. That is probably why things cost more there compared to many other places like everyone who lives there says it does. Hopefully a change of government will improve the intrastructure problems and help illiminate excessive noise from businesses etc.. The last 2 changes of goverment in SLP got all the tenaments - there are probably 1,500 of those apartment buildings or more I have seen - a new coat of paint - gratitude for voting them in - and the potholes filled and in centro historico new underground services and wider sidewalks where they were needed. The bad change was no police presence anywhere close to what it was before.

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On 9/29/2018 at 5:32 PM, AlanMexicali said:

https://www.lavozdelaribera.com.mx/autoriza-cabildo-de-chapala-reestructurar-deuda-municipal/

I don't know where you got the idea the Municipality of Chapala should be rich or it gets a large amount of money when a house is finished - they get peanuts because of the Mexican system of taxes. Property taxes here are used for other costs and it isn't even close to what they are  used for NOB - IVA and SAT taxes are supplied for the things property taxes are used for NOB. Also population according to the Mexican census calculates what IVA and SAT taxes all municipalities get in the yearly budgets. So why would  a few villiages and a town be rich? Do you have inside info. or something unbeknowst to us.

Also Chapala is still 72 million pesos in debt and has being paying it off with interest for 6 years from the monster debt your municipal government racked up 2 adminIstrations ago - your new malecons etc.. I see no reason to think Lakeside is doing that well because of new construction ongoing in any way. The figures don't add up to much money. IMO

I clearly was not referring to property tax. I was referring to the fee paid to the  city when a new home is finished. it is based on the community, type of construction,  and size of the house. We can all agree that The municipality of Chapala has many new homes finished every year that qualify for the highest level of charge. And yes I do have inside info. Whether it ever becomes public remains to be seen. It does involve millions. .

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