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Northbound refugees in Chapala


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Have you noticed the number of Central American "illegals" now asking for hand outs in Chapala.

My friend in Guadalajara mentioned that there are significant numbers of them in the bus station and another strategic locations.

I thought like in Europe, the first country they land in, that country  must give them residence 

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This is one the important issues under discussion with the new Mexican President and the U.S. President. There is an international issue with "second country" applications. For example if someone arrives in Canada, and applies for asylum, they cannot also make an asylum claim, say U.S.A. while waiting. If their claim (and often appeal) is denied, they are deported to their country of origin. Now the U.S.A. and Mexico are proposing an asylum camp in Mexico, for which the U.S.A. has offered generous funding.Asylum seekers, or illegals to the U.S. Border would be sent there while processing their primary country choice - U.S.A. or Mexico, or none of the above (deportation). The reduction strain and costs on U.S. courts and "due process" would be tremendous

. European Union countries are proposing a very similar system, to be based in a yet to be determined country in Africa. This will not affect the long standing United Nations refugee program, which features extreme vetting and longer than 2 year for chance only a very few are granted.  

For me, the issue is that if victims of the brutal political regimes of Central America, often propped up by Western powers, we're often accepted as "genuine" refugee claims what difference now is there between victims of the brutal, criminal regimes that filled the vacuum?

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10 hours ago, lakeside7 said:

Have you noticed the number of Central American "illegals" now asking for hand outs in Chapala.

My friend in Guadalajara mentioned that there are significant numbers of them in the bus station and another strategic locations.

I thought like in Europe, the first country they land in, that country  must give them residence 

Mexico "gives" No One Residence. You either meet the Mexican Requirements or "Hasta la Vista, Baby " !  :D

 

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25 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

I wish people would stop referring to undocumented migrants as "illegals". They may have committed an illegal act by entering the country without proper documentation and permission,

THAT is EXACTLY why they are referred to as ILLEGALS ! THEY are ILLEGALY in the Country because they broke the LAW ! Rarely do "wishes" come true !  :D

 

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24 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

I wish people would stop referring to undocumented migrants as "illegals". They may have committed an illegal act by entering the country without proper documentation and permission, but there is nothing about a person that is illegal.

Can someone explain this to me?

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2 hours ago, Tiny said:

Can someone explain this to me?

Are you serious? You really don't get it? (I can never tell when you're joking) 

You're driving. You run a red light (on purpose even, you're in a hurry and there's no other traffic). Running a red light is illegal. Do people then refer to you as "an illegal"? It's dehumanizing.

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3 hours ago, mudgirl said:

Are you serious? You really don't get it? (I can never tell when you're joking) 

You're driving. You run a red light (on purpose even, you're in a hurry and there's no other traffic). Running a red light is illegal. Do people then refer to you as "an illegal"? It's dehumanizing.

Unbelievable!!!

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THIS is a unprecedented example of nitpicking semantics!!  ...not to mention self-righteousness.  Can anyone imagine the level of desperation it must take to drive a person into abandoning their home and their possessions and fleeing to another country where they face a very doubtful reception? (Sometimes one in which their children are taken away) This is something none of us have been likely to have encountered in our lifetimes.  Even those of us who had a hard time getting by didn't have to run for our lives from the nation we lived in.  How about calling these people what they are:  REFUGEES.

 

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11 hours ago, mudgirl said:

I wish people would stop referring to undocumented migrants as "illegals". They may have committed an illegal act by entering the country without proper documentation and permission, but there is nothing about a person that is illegal.

The term "Illegal" is a legal term. It is the word in the Law that was passed by congress. If you use undocumented it conveys no legal meaning. There is a procedure for changing the word in the law or changing the law. That is congress' job. Having a chief executive that decides to his oath to uphold the laws and constitution and also ignore the law is only temporary just as soon as a new president that also swears to uphold the constitution and means it is elected.

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This "caravan" has been happening for about seven years, according to reports. Refugees from Central America: El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras. This year they are being sponsored by a transnational group. Their intent is to escape their countries and get to the U.S. The Guadalajara Reporter has had several stories about this over the last few years, including information on Mexicans tossing food and water at the train, about a refugee centre in Guadalajara, and so on. They want to pass through Mexico, but of course the best laid plans... some will try to find work or other means of support here before they get there. I personally don't think many refugees see Mexico as a safe haven.

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1 hour ago, gringal said:

THIS is a unprecedented example of nitpicking semantics!!  ...not to mention self-righteousness.  Can anyone imagine the level of desperation it must take to drive a person into abandoning their home and their possessions and fleeing to another country where they face a very doubtful reception? (Sometimes one in which their children are taken away) This is something none of us have been likely to have encountered in our lifetimes.  Even those of us who had a hard time getting by didn't have to run for our lives from the nation we lived in.  How about calling these people what they are:  REFUGEES.

 

No they are not just Refugees. Entering between border entry points makes you an illegal. For many years the USA and most other countries would not even consider anyone for refugee status that tried to sneak in. Real asylum seekers go the the border entry points where they can apply for asylum. Whether you are entering at a border point makes you illegal or not.

These refugees should stay and change what they don't like about their own government or country.  For many years immigration to the USA has been a safety valve against revolution in many countries. 

You say sometimes their children are taken away. This only ever happened if they illegally entered between border check points. Want to keep the kids with you, then you enter and apply at a border entry point. Many of the children taken were taken from traffickers who badly want them back to fill orders that they have advances on.

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2 minutes ago, geeser said:

No they are not just Refugees. Entering between border entry points makes you an illegal. For many years the USA and most other countries would not even consider anyone for refugee status that tried to sneak in. Real asylum seekers go the the border entry points where they can apply for asylum. Whether you are entering at a border point makes you illegal or not.

These refugees should stay and change what they don't like about their own government or country.  For many years immigration to the USA has been a safety valve against revolution in many countries. 

 "stay and change?" The problem is, I can tell you aren't joking.  Not to get real political here, but the U.S. created some of those horrendous regimes.

However, there was once a time when people being persecuted for various reasons came to the U.S. for a new chance. Ellis Island was often the first stop for many of our ancestors. And...some of them were revolutionaries on the losing side, mine included.

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21 minutes ago, geeser said:

These refugees should stay and change what they don't like about their own government or country.  For many years immigration to the USA has been a safety valve against revolution in many countries.

Well, I'd say you have a heart of gold (that's a joke), but I'd like to see you "stay and change" things when you are being attacked, raided, raped, terrorized, forced out of your own home and business. Good luck with that.

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2 hours ago, geeser said:

No they are not just Refugees. Entering between border entry points makes you an illegal. For many years the USA and most other countries would not even consider anyone for refugee status that tried to sneak in. Real asylum seekers go the the border entry points where they can apply for asylum. Whether you are entering at a border point makes you illegal or not.

These refugees should stay and change what they don't like about their own government or country.  For many years immigration to the USA has been a safety valve against revolution in many countries. 

You say sometimes their children are taken away. This only ever happened if they illegally entered between border check points. Want to keep the kids with you, then you enter and apply at a border entry point. Many of the children taken were taken from traffickers who badly want them back to fill orders that they have advances on.

Real refugees cannot go to a proper border entry point and apply for refugee status. They have to apply to an American government human rights official abroad after getting a UN type application approved from the UN refugee program. The US official will interview them and if they qualify will give them a refugee status visa to enter the US and apply for refugee status.  Without a refugee visa if they try to enter at a US border point they will be turned away. If they cross over the border and get picked up by the Border Patrol they used to be able to appear before an US Imigration judge for a deportation hearng and plead their refugees status case. The Trump admnistration passed a law that  instead of adult people entering the US not at a controlled entry point from being a civil offence to being a crimminal offense and they cannot apply for refugee status in criminal court without all the documentation proving their life is in danger in their home country and pay a lawyer to represent them. They don´t get to see an Immigration judge for a deportation hearing anymore only children do now.

Most if not all refugee status visas are approved for people who´s home country´s government is documented by the UN human rights commision carrying out violence against their citizens for religious or racial discrimination or are in a civil war not because their govenment is not able to control civil violence and provide security for their citizens from criminals. Mexico has similar refugee status visa requirements as do all UN member countries. The US is breaking UN protocol by doing what it is doing since the Trump administration changed the rules.

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All well and good, but the term "real refugee" sidetracks the whole question. Very few, what... if any... refugees have the time, status, or means to go through paperwork that basically amounts to the same thing as seeking immigration status without the employment. They just turn up at the border of their choosing. Apart from the massive refugee scenario happening around the world right now, just look at what Cubans have ben doing for generations. These people invest in a common boat, not in a ticket to see an official.

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2 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

All well and good, but the term "real refugee" sidetracks the whole question. Very few, what... if any... refugees have the time, status, or means to go through paperwork that basically amounts to the same thing as seeking immigration status without the employment. They just turn up at the border of their choosing. Apart from the massive refugee scenario happening around the world right now, just look at what Cubans have ben doing for generations. These people invest in a common boat, not in a ticket to see an official.

Hmmm. So why does the US government   welcome Cubans and not Mexicans  and others from  Central America

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I'm just curious as to why the U.S. should always be the bag holder here.  Central America has been a political disaster forever and people have been trying to flee it mostly for economic reasons forever and some for personal danger.  The U.S. has taken more immigrants than all the rest of the world combined and there is no where on the planet where you'll find a nation with 10 million plus "undocumented" immigrants.  

When is enough, enough, and when should U.S. citizens expect their government to put their interests first as the government of Mexico clearly does for its citizens?

As for Cubans, they don't come by the millions and then expect handouts.  That might have some bearing on their reception.

I hope you Canadians and Mexicans will be encouraging your governments to take a big bunch of these Central Americans instead of expecting to dump the problem on the U.S. as usual.

Just sayin'.

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2 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

I'm just curious as to why the U.S. should always be the bag holder here.  Central America has been a political disaster for ever and people have been trying to flee it mostly for economic reasons and some for personal danger.  The U.S. has taken more immigrants than all the rest of the world combined and there is no where on the planet where you'll find a nation with 10 million plus "undocumented" immigrants.  

When is enough, enough, and when should U.S. citizens expect their government to put their interests first as the government of Mexico clearly does for its citizens?

As for Cubans, they don't come by the millions and then expect handouts.  That might have some bearing on their reception.

I hope you Canadians and Mexicans will be encouraging your governments to take a big bunch of these Central Americans instead of expecting to dump the problem on the U.S. as usual.

Just sayin'.

I agree. Good point.

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