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Just finalized a convoluted Mexico claim for 'pension/finiquito'.  Acquired an advanced 'degree of knowledge'

as to the system of 'justice' both protocol and process...

Paid a dear amount of 'tuition' for a case that was 'from the get go' politically and financially in favor and

to the advantage of the Mexican national.  Am myself educated in legal and finance matters

none of which were successfully applied to the 2 year 'in the TAKING" experience.

Am happy to share my experience as it may assist in advance decisions about how to make the outcome

less expensive bearing in mind that JUSTICE is TRULY BLIND to our expectations if we are from another

country.  Mexico is a beautiful country but definitely a DIFFERENT WORLD... 

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Maybe if people would cough up a few pesos for a lawyer instead of relying on "advice" from friends, neighbors and (shudder) chat board advice it might make their transition to the Mexican legal system a little easier and cheaper. As Angus well said, be prepared to follow the laws here or be prepared to pay the piper. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Viva Mexico!

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All laws were followed.  The ploy was the worker's.  Special Labor Lawyer hired to assist.

Worker quit and claimed being let go.  Arbitration Board found worker to have exaggerated

claim.  Worker objected to the arbitration findings.  And proceeded to court.  This was

a matter of RISK intrinsic to hiring some who would take advantage.  Lawyer advised

that extortion is  used often by workers.

You are welcome to judge but please do so after a review of the facts.

My posting was an offer to share my experience to help others to understand risks

and the process of Mexican 'law'.

No intention to offer advice...just to share what I had learned. from my own experience of

having a hired a worker held in favor and great respect whose act of betrayal of truth

and facts has provided a plethora of experience that perhaps can be avoided by others.

Perhaps other than the current commentators, others might wish to advantage

the details and use to their advantage!  Viva Mexico...of course. 

Comments noted. But inappropriate. 

 

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8 hours ago, Apachewoman said:

 

...less expensive bearing in mind that JUSTICE is TRULY BLIND to our expectations if we are from another

country.  Mexico is a beautiful country but definitely a DIFFERENT WORLD... 

"IMBALANCE OF POWER re LABOR LAWS"

"Pitfalls in the bottomless pit of unjustice"

With your conclusion I have to assume you had, in the past, been to court in your own country and know for a fact that their court system works in favor of the defendant when the accuser is lying in court and that your experience here in Mexico is the opposite.

You are comparing similar situations here and there or are you simply not experienced in any other court matters except this one you have described as being predjuce against employers and foreigners?

To me your above statement I quoted is a far stretch of your imagination and possibly predjuice because you lost and the liar won. I wonder if it only happens this way in Mexico and only to foreigners? Or in reality does it happen everywhere quite often? IMO

 

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I have been to court here, the man who owed me money was lying through his teeth but unless you can prove it via written statements and or with witnesses you are out of luck. My lawyer´s advce was he lies you lie too.. The courts are differnt in a way that you really have to have strong proofs here.. A receipt is not a receipt unless it specifies what it is for.. a check is not a proof for a specific payment etc... You really have to cross your t and dot the dots here . You just have to really understand how things work , what is acceptable and what is not all that if the judge has not been paid off.. I had what would have been acceptable written proofs in the States but at that time and I do not know if things have changede-mail were not acceptable in court so I did not get my money bacjk at that point, I then ask the lawyer, can I blackmail the guy, threaten him and  harrasss him? The Answer was "yes" so I did just that and I got the money wthin a day.. As I said you have to know what you can or cannot do and go by the rules here.

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If people would see a lawyer before they hire a maid, gardener, etc. many, if not all, of these problems would go away. What's needed are preventative measures before anyone gets mad, quits, asks or demands a raise, etc. If you know how to handle these situations chances are nobody is going to waste their time taking you to court. They know there are enough dumb foreigners flubbing around who don't know what the hell they are doing.

And you may be in the vast majority who has never had such a problem yet. You probably think you have wisely chosen your employees, are very kind to them, treat them better than the poor slobs who have these problems. May you never have a problem but the key word is yet. Talk to a lawyer and become an educated kind and gentle employer.

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Employees are not friends.  The minute you befriend an employee that person has the upper hand.  Be nice, be generous and kind.  And put away 30% over what you pay them daily so that you have the finiquitos and aquinaldo when you need and pay the finiquito even if they quit.  I know they are not by law entitled to it, but really do you want to hassle with that argument.  Some people have trouble with gathering a hunk of money at one time but if you collect it from yourself every time you pay and put it in an envelope you will have it always available.  Or you can finiquito the worker once a year and start all over each year.

The attitude of some expats towards casual labor here has always surprised me.  I pay a flat rate and neither I nor my household help count the hours she is here.  Sometimes it is 5 hours and sometimes it is 8.  Sometimes she has to clean the rental next door and sometimes she doesn't.  She has a rotation of heavier tasks that are hers to control.  I have been known to call her and tell her to take a day off with pay.  When we are away she might come only every other week but she gets paid for every week.  She gets her Aguinaldo on November 1st and in US dollars.  

 

The original poster has taken this personal and it isn't.  The employer considered the employee their friend and they weren't.   Old family saying, "I do not pay you for your time I pay you for the value you bring to the hour."  I explain this to every employee I have ever had and regardless of culture they all have understood what they were being told and where my line was drawn.

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Just now, solajijic said:

Employees are not friends.  The minute you befriend an employee that person has the upper hand.  Be nice, be generous and kind.  And put away 30% over what you pay them daily so that you have the finiquitos and aquinaldo when you need and pay the finiquito even if they quit.  I know they are not by law entitled to it, but really do you want to hassle with that argument.  

Finiquito:

Google Translation:

"How to calculate my settlement?

The settlement corresponds to the payment of the contractual benefits of the Federal Labor Law and is granted upon presentation of a voluntary resignation by the worker before his employer. It is an act in which a worker and an employer validate or approve the termination of the employment relationship. The worker has the right to be covered proportional parts according to the Law such as fifteen days of bonuses, 6 days of vacation - if it is the first year of work -, the holiday bonus and the wages to be covered.

The data that must be available to complete a settlement are the date of entry, date of withdrawal, monthly salary and integrated daily salary (Enter here if you want to know how it is calculated). Example: Days worked by the worker until his resignation: 182 days Benefits of law stipulated by the Federal Labor Law:
• Daily salary $ 100
• Aguinaldo (15 days)
• Holidays (6 days per year)
• Vacation bonus (25%)"

http://www.fundacionunam.org.mx/humanidades/como-calcular-mi-finiquito/

It appears that when an employee quits a contractual employment, but is unclear if they or the employer initiates the resignation, they ARE by federal labor law entitled to the same amount of severence pay as if they were let go by the employer. I think US labor laws regarding entitlement to unemployment insurance has people buying into the rumor : "IF THE EMPLOYEE QUITS THEY DON'T LEGALLY GET FINIQUITO."

If this is in deed the federal labor law then the OP was in a 2 year battle for lack of knowing what she should have legally done when her gardener quit which was pay him his finiquito and have him sign the reciept. Here in my experience maids who quite get it. They also get IMSS pension paid and also will get IMSS medical if their spouse doesn´t have it for her family.

UNAM is a good reliable source of information on many subjects. IMO

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Just now, pappysmarket said:

There oughta be a separate section on this board for "Wanna Be" lawyers.

Angus had a more colorful name for them.

One of the common themes seems to be these senarios:

1. The Mexican government screwed me over.

2. The landlord screwed me over.

3. The renter screwed me over.

4. Walmart or a Walmart employee screwed me over.

5. My cleaning lady or gardener screwed me over.

6. Telmex screwed me over.

7. My bank screwed me over.

8. The Mexican government employee screwed me over.

9. My house is in a zone where the neighbors screwed me over with excessive noise all the time. Music, dogs barking, fireworks etc..

10. My town screwed me over by not fixing potholes.

Etc.

You always tell us to not discuss these things in detail and openly but get a lawyer. If nobody didn't make comments it would only be:

Where can I find ******* at Lakeside?

What hotel is better on route and what route is better and what crossing into Texas is better?

Why doesn't Costco sell salted butter?

Where and how do I: renew a drivers license, get an INAPAM card, pay a traffic ticket etc.?

Etc.

Which is more interesting? :P

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Jajaja...........Yeah as long as one reads those posts for the humor, I completely agree with you.

Maybe a Mod could make your post a Sticky and assign numbers to each topic.  Much easier for people to post "I am the victim of #7".  Then all the "Wanna Be's" could respond and the Mods could give each answer a sub number under the main topics and in no time every complaint would have several solutions.

But you're right, that would take a lot of the humor out of this board. I just hope nobody takes these "Wanna Be" lawyers responses as anything other than humor.

By the way......why doesn't Costco sell salted butter?

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35 minutes ago, AlanMexicali said:

One of the common themes seems to be these senarios:

1. The Mexican government screwed me over.

2. The landlord screwed me over.

3. The renter screwed me over.

4. Walmart or a Walmart employee screwed me over.

5. My cleaning lady or gardener screwed me over.

6. Telmex screwed me over.

7. My bank screwed me over.

8. The Mexican government employee screwed me over.

9. My house is in a zone where the neighbors screwed me over with excessive noise all the time. Music, dogs barking, fireworks etc..

10. My town screwed me over by not fixing potholes.

Etc.

You always tell us to not discuss these things in detail and openly but get a lawyer. If nobody didn't make comments it would only be:

Where can I find ******* at Lakeside?

What hotel is better on route and what route is better and what crossing into Texas is better?

Why doesn't Costco sell salted butter?

Where and how do I: renew a drivers license, get an INAPAM card, pay a traffic ticket etc.?

Etc.

Which is more interesting? :P

Here's another one:

Cannot receive cell calls with Telcel

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"There are no stupid questions.... only stupid answers." Taught by my grade school teacher.

Anyway, whatever would you guys do with all your valuable time if you weren't making snarky, unrelated responses to posters?

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Amen, Sola! We do the same. If the cleaner needs time off, we give it to her, no questions asked and still pay her for the day. So far, she hasn't abused it and always gives back extra time. We don't ask that she does it, but there is a sense of balance that works. The same with small loans. If she needs a small amount, we loan it but VERY slowly take it out of her pay...and give her credit for any extra time she spends. We have a very good relationship, but never think that she's our buddy. Of course, things can change on a dime, as is true anywhere you live, so I don't discount the original post. I just wish we had more facts and less vague statements. 

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23 hours ago, catbird said:

Concerning Mexican Laws,

I was told that you could be taken to court if you gossip about someone or slander them. There was a name for it but I forgot what it was.

Can anyone help me remember?

It is the same as in the US. If you slander (verbal) or libel (written) someone and defame the person you can be sued. At least in Jalisco they charged the law a few years ago where it is civil and no longer criminal. Some Mexican states still have slander and libel as criminal and civil. 

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