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While the Libertarian in me would like to see legalization, the realist wonders if this would end up the same way as guns.  When I was young there were guns all over the place including school and no one thought for a minute to pick them up and start shooting fellow students and teachers.  Ditto with drugs, cocaine was legal in the U.S. a hundred years ago and the streets weren't full of dopers. 

It seems to me there's a cultural problem here that everyone is ignoring.  When I was young drug abuse was really frowned on and drug users were shunned.  Now it seems to be mainstream.  Would we have some success with legalization like the Portuguese have or would we have half a nation of drug using zombies?

 

21 minutes ago, Jreboll said:

And you don’t hear a peep from Trump

Maybe your ears are plugged up?

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-combatting-opioid-crisis/

Quote

I especially want to acknowledge all of the families with us today who have endured terrible hardships because of the opioid crisis, and especially those who have lost precious loved ones. I’ve been saying this for a long time, and it all started right here in New Hampshire, because I see what you’re going through. About as bad as there is anywhere in the country. And I said I’d be back, and we are back. And we’re pouring a lot of money and a lot of talent into this horrible problem. And we pledge to honor the memory of those you lost with action and determination and resolve. We’ll get it. We will not rest until the end. And I will tell you, this scourge of drug addiction in America will stop. It will stop. (Applause.)

Every day, 116 Americans die from an opioid-related overdose. In New Hampshire, the overdose, really, death rate — I mean, can you believe this? The death rate is double the national average. It’s got difficulties like people wouldn’t believe.

Defeating this epidemic will require the commitment of every state, local, and federal agency. Failure is not an option. Addiction is not our future. We will liberate our country from this crisis. Never been like this. Hundreds of years — never been like this. And we will raise a drug-free generation of American children.

Last October, we declared the opioid crisis a public health emergency. Should have been done a long time before. Since then, we’ve worked with Congress to ensure at least 6 billion additional dollars, going through right now, in new funding in 2018 and 2019 to combat the opioid crisis. And we will be spending the most money ever on the opioid crisis. (Applause.)

On our most recent National Prescription Drug Take Back Day, people across the country turned in more than 900,000 pounds of unused or expired prescription drugs — more than the weight of three Boeing 757s.

I'd call that a peep though I don't think he'll be any more successful against this epidemic of drug use than any of his predecessors.  Seems the "Woodstock generation" green lighted doping and it has been rolling along and getting worse practically everywhere, including here, since. 

I don't know how civilization is going to survive this drug epidemic, frankly.  It is hard to be optimistic.  Criminalizing hasn't worked.  Educating hasn't worked.  Now what?

 

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1 hour ago, Jreboll said:

The worst drug problem in America right now is opioids. The doctors and pharmaceuticals are pushing this. You don’t see anyone going to jail. You don’t see blood in the streets. And you don’t hear a peep from Trump

Actually, "you don’t hear a peep from Trump" is a false statement. Check out what has been said and done BEFORE you make absurd and foolish statements.

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5 minutes ago, Jim Bowie said:

Actually, "you don’t hear a peep from Trump" is a false statement. Check out what has been said and done BEFORE you make absurd and foolish statements.

You don’t seem to read previous postings. Read them first before posting

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1 hour ago, Jreboll said:

You don’t seem to read previous postings. Read them first before posting

FYI, I only read as far as your incorrect post, so I responded to it at that point. Did not have the time to read farther. I think you could have deleted it, if I am not mistaken, if you were already aware it was incorrect by the time I posted. If it were me, I would have done that, and I would be more concerned next time to be sure that I did not ;post any more Fake News. But, that is just how I respond. YMMD

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11 minutes ago, Jim Bowie said:

FYI, I only read as far as your incorrect post, so I responded to it at that point. Did not have the time to read farther. I think you could have deleted it, if I am not mistaken, if you were already aware it was incorrect by the time I posted. If it were me, I would have done that, and I would be more concerned next time to be sure that I did not ;post any more Fake News. But, that is just how I respond. YMMD

Newbie.....that says it all.....too busy ......

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In April 2016, the first Drug Take Back day was started under Obama, and brought in 844,000 pounds... basically the same as the latest. Note that number includes all prescription drugs, not just opioids. Trump says the numbers (of what?) are "way down" because of his $6 billion. Except the bill was passed last week, making it pretty obvious that any "numbers" are not the result of a new budget.

The majority of "abusers" are adults, first over-prescribed by physicians, then moving into street heroin due to high drug-company prices. Heroin is a lot cheaper. These are not old hippies. These are for the most part patients who need chronic pain care that is not addictive, and children of mothers who were being treated and then misused the drugs, leading to durg-withdrawal symptoms in babies. And a huge increase in dirty needle use, resulting in more HIV And Hep C... which might be covered better except for the various cuts to the health care acts.

When Trump created the commission last fall, he allocated a billion dollars... from Obama's 21st Century Cures Act. Talk about Peter and Paul.

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2 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

In April 2016, the first Drug Take Back day was started under Obama, and brought in 844,000 pounds... basically the same as the latest. Note that number includes all prescription drugs, not just opioids. Trump says the numbers (of what?) are "way down" because of his $6 billion. Except the bill was passed last week, making it pretty obvious that any "numbers" are not the result of a new budget.

The majority of "abusers" are adults, first over-prescribed by physicians, then moving into street heroin due to high drug-company prices. Heroin is a lot cheaper. These are not old hippies. These are for the most part patients who need chronic pain care that is not addictive, and children of mothers who were being treated and then misused the drugs, leading to durg-withdrawal symptoms in babies. And a huge increase in dirty needle use, resulting in more HIV And Hep C... which might be covered better except for the various cuts to the health care acts.

When Trump created the commission last fall, he allocated a billion dollars... from Obama's 21st Century Cures Act. Talk about Peter and Paul.

Was that Peter, Paul, and Mary? Great Group ! Loved them !

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This is getting rather far afield of AMLO I think.  As I noted I don't see the current government NOB being anymore successful with this drug use epidemic than any of their predecessors.  I posted a correction of a statement which suggested they are oblivious to the problem.  They aren't but really aren't proposing anything other than the same old stuff that hasn't worked.

The only new ideas out there are variations on legalization none of which have really been applied on a large scale.  What happens if drugs become readily available in very large societies that are exhibiting wide social/moral breakdown?

AMLO has vaguely suggested some sort of amnesty for the narcos.  The idea hasn't been yet fleshed out enough that I feel comfortable with trying to figure out just where's he's coming from.  Maybe he is thinking along the lines of the very limited amnesties used in Columbia.

We have some of our friends from Oaxaca here.  They feel like they are between a rock and a hard place with this election.  They have no faith at all in the other candidates and not a lot of hope with AMLO.

I've never seen the mood quite so grim here among the Mexicans we know, from our domestic help to the professional people.  There's a lot of despair out there.

 

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On a related topic. I and other friends are starting to distrust the banking system. It seems rich people, narcos and banks can transfer huge amounts of money with little oversight but we have to jump through hoops when we make money transactions. I’m sure many of us are stuffing our money under the mattress because of this and because little interest is paid on deposits. It just seems the government should concentrate on  the frequent big spenders and give poor folks more latitude

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Mr. Lopez Obrador has stated that, if elected, he would hold an "open discussion" on how to deal with the problems of drug use and the drug cartels. In this discussion, every option would be on the table, including outright legalization and amnesty for narcos along the lines of the Colombian model. So far, his only conclusion is that current policies have not worked and have resulted in the deaths of many thousands of people since former president Felipe Calderon declared war on the cartels 12 years ago. His main priority is to put an end to the killing.

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2 hours ago, alex45920 said:

Mr. Lopez Obrador has stated that, if elected, he would hold an "open discussion" on how to deal with the problems of drug use and the drug cartels. In this discussion, every option would be on the table, including outright legalization and amnesty for narcos along the lines of the Colombian model. So far, his only conclusion is that current policies have not worked and have resulted in the deaths of many thousands of people since former president Felipe Calderon declared war on the cartels 12 years ago. His main priority is to put an end to the killing.

Makes sense to me.

Thanks for posting this.

 

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So, Pappy, A poor person who develops diabetes due to making poor health choices, or a young farmer who develops cancer due to long term exposure to chemicals he chose to use, or a construction worker who chooses to work on a roof and falls off doesn't deserve help from any taxpayer even though those folks might not make enough to buy insurance.  Even with insurance, there could be long term effects to deal with that are beyond that individual' ability to sustain himself.  Is there going to be a death panel that decides who deserves to get help?  Is that your job?  Some addictions to alcohol, pain meds, and other drugs are the results of genetics, depression, over-prescribing by doctors, etc.  Don't make uninformed statements that are based on your own personal bias.  It is a complicated issue that requires more than a "Trump like" knee jerk response.

Alan

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13 minutes ago, barrbower said:

So, Pappy, A poor person who develops diabetes due to making poor health choices, or a young farmer who develops cancer due to long term exposure to chemicals he chose to use, or a construction worker who chooses to work on a roof and falls off doesn't deserve help from any taxpayer even though those folks might not make enough to buy insurance.  Even with insurance, there could be long term effects to deal with that are beyond that individual' ability to sustain himself.  Is there going to be a death panel that decides who deserves to get help?  Is that your job?  Some addictions to alcohol, pain meds, and other drugs are the results of genetics, depression, over-prescribing by doctors, etc.  Don't make uninformed statements that are based on your own personal bias.  It is a complicated issue that requires more than a "Trump like" knee jerk response.

Alan

You are entitled to your opinion.....

I am entitled to mine........

I have developed my opinion over a long lifespan and I assume you have done the same. If you are lucky to live long enough you just might realize that others who don't agree with your opinion are not always "uninformed". If you had the chance to purchase health insurance at a young age but chose not to do so so you could spend your money on other things, I salute your right to make your own choices. If you later in life either can't get or can't afford health coverage I also salute you but really don't want to be forced to subsidize your treatment. That is not even close to being a death panel. We will all die someday, forcing me to pay to keep you going a little longer does not interest me in the least. And I have enough manners to not invoke the name Obama to characterize your argument.

YMMV

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1 minute ago, pappysmarket said:

Jajaja, good one Angus. I assume you have personal experience and knowledge.

Health is more than choices, its also luck and money. When the working class can barely pay rent and eat, should they be at the mercy of an insurance company?

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2 minutes ago, Jreboll said:

Laws are passed to favor and allow rich people to get richer and the rest of us are left to fight over crumbs. Pappysmart will never see the forest from the trees 

Hahaha, so what's wrong with that? Are you bitter about the number of crumbs you got? Fight smarter, not harder.

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2 minutes ago, AngusMactavish said:

Health is more than choices, its also luck and money. When the working class can barely pay rent and eat, should they be at the mercy of an insurance company?

OK, now tell me how many "things" so called poor people in the US have. I'll start the list with large TV's, smartphones, cars that are much more than "basic transportation",  rims for said cars, drugs and alcohol.......your turn to keep adding. Those people also qualify for some of the best social assistance available anywhere including health coverage through Medicaid. So I should feel sorry for someone who could enjoy those benefits in the US but because they despise the country for whatever reason, they want to live elsewhere? I don't think so! People love insurance companies when their house burns down and they get paid to rebuild. Why is health insurance any different? If you and others think it should be a "right" the FF gave you the perfect way to change the Constitution. Until that is done, sorry, but it's not a "right".

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I had nothing to do with picking my parents. I am very proud of who I am and would never buy into feeling guilty. That's for other folks to worry about. And unlike many Mexicans who go to extreme measures to avoid sun exposure, I foolishly did not. Have you happened to notice how the lightest skinned Mexicans look down on the darker ones? What's that all about?

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6 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

Have you happened to notice how the lightest skinned Mexicans look down on the darker ones? What's that all about?

 

They see them covered by a national health care system.

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1 minute ago, AngusMactavish said:

They see them covered by a national health care system.

If you feel so strongly about that issue, why aren't you back there, fighting the good fight, to amend the Constitution? With all due respect, how much good can you do here in the middle of Mexico posting on a web board?

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1 minute ago, pappysmarket said:

If you feel so strongly about that issue, why aren't you back there, fighting the good fight, to amend the Constitution? With all due respect, how much good can you do here in the middle of Mexico posting on a web board?

I moved here for the free healthcare. Screw the s-hole nation I left. They voted the way they did and now they can live with the results.

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