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We are building small house in Riberas.  Have been in negotiation with two contractors.  Our preferred contractor has asked for 50 % up front.  I believe this is to much and offered  1/3rd plus permissos up front with another 1/3rd at half way and other 1/3rd when finished.  The other contractor is very amendable but I am not sure if he is dependable.  Any advice on upfront monies or progress payments.  In mean time will contact a third contractor recommended on this forum.  Gracias Jim and Lilia 

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I suggest you discuss the contract and its terms with Spencer McMullen. I would sign nothing without his expert blessing on any contract, especially with the amount of money you are talking about.

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I would suggest breaking down the quote into smaller chunks that allow you to see progress and relate it to money. 1/3 is still quite some money since it will be 2 o 3 months of work before they catch up. It also depends on the type of arrangement fixed price, or cost administration.

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3 hours ago, rafterbr said:

We are building small house in Riberas.  Have been in negotiation with two contractors.  Our preferred contractor has asked for 50 % up front.  I believe this is to much and offered  1/3rd plus permissos up front with another 1/3rd at half way and other 1/3rd when finished.  The other contractor is very amendable but I am not sure if he is dependable.  Any advice on upfront monies or progress payments.  In mean time will contact a third contractor recommended on this forum.  Gracias Jim and Lilia 

It's difficult getting around paying for the materials. Have them ordered by the contractor delivered and you pay the invoices right then. Don't hesitate to shop them yourself for price comparisons. Then ask what peons and maestros are being paid and keep just ahead on those payments.  Establish who is paying the two IMSS payments and ask for the receipts. IMSS will be one amount one month and higher every other month as it includes additional items every other month. There will probably be an accountant handling this. Other than a perhaps tripple maestros wage, for the contractor, all the profit can be put off until project is finished. Talk to an abrogado like Spencer to get opinion and perhaps a contract. Find out who is paying for permits and get them and receipts. Don't forget to include arrangement in case work just stops and you want another contractor to finish the job.  This method has worked for me. Just remember that a contract is too expensive to ever enforce it, but it's a start. 

We have all had quotes from experienced what'evers, say cabinet makers and the first payment is so large because he's got to buy saws and brad guns and drills.

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Yes, best to break it down into even 2 week increments. When you give 50% up front, they tend to run out of money towards the end and start cheaping out on materials and with rushed work. They'll be using some of the 50% up front to pay for someone elses' job they're finishing and which they underbid, borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. And make sure your contract states clearly everything that it covers. I know so many people who were told 3/4 of the way through, Oh, the contract didn't cover this or that. And work is notoriously underbid here, so don't be tempted to go with the least expensive bid.

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When I built, I paid for the materials myself. Set up an account with the local building supply, my crew could just call them when they needed more block, cement, rebar, etc. and I paid the bill at the end of the week. A contractor, while they usually get a better price on materials, will add on 10-15% for materials (this is standard up north as well) but you can save alot by paying the materials yourself.

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When we remodeled and built from scratch we arranged to pay wages every Saturday. The maestro had to give us a list of everyone on the job by Tuesday and we damn well took a head count each and every day morning and late afternoon. Saturday morning a list with everyone's name and their salary had to be handed to us by 11:00 and we gave the maestro the cash at 1:00 and he signed for it and paid each person. We arranged credit at the local ferreteria for materials and signed for them (and checked carefully) and then paid the invoices on time. They will give you a small discount for doing so. Near the end, as we had been told to expect, they slowed way down, had plenty of excuses and just worked like they would never have another job after that one. No problem, we had been forewarned and simply said this week is the last week, no matter what is left to finish. Gracias to everyone, a small party and bottles of tequila to each worker and promises of more work in the future. We then asked the 3 best workers to report Monday and had them finish up. If you can't direct the last little bit of work on a house yourself perhaps you shouldn't even be building in the first pace. Remember, if you pin them down to a firm price for specific work they will hurry and the quality will suffer unless you have done that type of work yourself and if so, why hire a contractor? If you pay by the week as we did they will slow down whenever they can get away with it, not crooked just normal. Pay by the square meter and you better really watch the quality.  I wouldn't do it this way again, don't think you could, but we were able to have our attorney handle all permits and IMSS after everything was finished. Ah, the good ole days! Just remember that every change you make, and trust me, you'll make some, is the maestro's opportunity to pad his bill and they do a great job of it. It's like being pickpocketed in Rome, you're mad as hell but you can't believe how slick the con was. Building a house in Mexico is truly an experience. Remember to never lose your cool, smile and tell the maestro how it's gonna be.

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I did it much the same as pappysmarket, but I  did not have the experience that the crew slowed down near the end. They were steady and hard working all the way through and we developed a great rapport. But I knew quite a bit about construction and what I wanted and I was working on a lot of stuff as well, so that seemed to generate quite a bit of respect- I don't think they'd ever seen a gringo doing actual physical labor before, and a woman to boot. We had a lot of laughs, they were constantly correcting what was my very poor Spanish at that time and they went out of their way to save me money- at one point we were in need of more framing lumber and I said I'd go to the lumber yard and order more. My head maestro said "You know, we did a job over at my cousin's a couple months ago and all the framing lumber is still laying around there- we could use that." I said great, when can we get it? "Ahora, vamonos!" 

If you're building a modest house, a smaller crew seems actually better- seems like it'll get done faster with more, but that doesn't necessarily seem to be the case- A big crew often gets in each other's way and there seems to be more slacking- I had a crew of 4 and it was really manageable. But I didn't have a contractor, just a plan and a crew with me on site every day.

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14 hours ago, pappysmarket said:

When we remodeled and built from scratch we arranged to pay wages every Saturday. The maestro had to give us a list of everyone on the job by Tuesday and we damn well took a head count each and every day morning and late afternoon. Saturday morning a list with everyone's name and their salary had to be handed to us by 11:00 and we gave the maestro the cash at 1:00 and he signed for it and paid each person. We arranged credit at the local ferreteria for materials and signed for them (and checked carefully) and then paid the invoices on time. They will give you a small discount for doing so. Near the end, as we had been told to expect, they slowed way down, had plenty of excuses and just worked like they would never have another job after that one. No problem, we had been forewarned and simply said this week is the last week, no matter what is left to finish. Gracias to everyone, a small party and bottles of tequila to each worker and promises of more work in the future. We then asked the 3 best workers to report Monday and had them finish up. If you can't direct the last little bit of work on a house yourself perhaps you shouldn't even be building in the first pace. Remember, if you pin them down to a firm price for specific work they will hurry and the quality will suffer unless you have done that type of work yourself and if so, why hire a contractor? If you pay by the week as we did they will slow down whenever they can get away with it, not crooked just normal. Pay by the square meter and you better really watch the quality.  I wouldn't do it this way again, don't think you could, but we were able to have our attorney handle all permits and IMSS after everything was finished. Ah, the good ole days! Just remember that every change you make, and trust me, you'll make some, is the maestro's opportunity to pad his bill and they do a great job of it. It's like being pickpocketed in Rome, you're mad as hell but you can't believe how slick the con was. Building a house in Mexico is truly an experience. Remember to never lose your cool, smile and tell the maestro how it's gonna be.

This is the way I wound up doing my building. I fired the useless architect tow weeks later fired the engineer. I had spoken to the head maestro and he said we could do it ourselves. 21 years ago them most difficult thing was accumulating the wages each week. I started on Sunday and had an envelope for each maestro and peon and wrote the amount on it each week and they signed or made their mark. It often took from Sunday to Friday to get all the correct money for each envelope. Back then it was difficult to ever get the correct change. One week for the first three days Lloyds would only have $500s then next they would have no $20s. Cambio was a very real problem.  I too opened an account at builder supply and askk for the builder's discount and they were happy to give me the 12% off. I paid them every Saturday just like the employees. IMSS was handled by an accountant in Guadalajara who would prepare me an invoice each month that I would pay at Bannorte. It is do-able, I did have construction experience in the states.

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Yes, getting the money for every Saturday was a challenge. We did it with US checks that we had gotten permission to cash at the casa de cambio that used to be right next to the Delegation office in Ajijic. I would go on Thursday or Friday and give the nice young lady the amount I would be needing since they never seemed to keep that much on hand. Then Saturday morning I would make the first foray down as she almost never had it right away and would tell me to come back in an hour or so. Sometimes multiple trips were needed but she always came through. Then with a large plastic bag full of pesos I had to make the trip back up to Zaragoza and let me tell you, the heart started beating fast more than once when someone realized what I was carrying and their eyes widened! We worked all week getting change from other places for the coming Saturday. Unlike you, I was lucky to know which end of the hammer to grab, say nothing of masonry construction. But doing it yourself you get to do certain things that would never be done by anyone else. As an example, how about an aljibe that holds 60,000 liters and that is not a misprint. With all the water problems Ajijic had (has?) I wasn't going to run out of water and the new owner loves it also. Wonderful deposits in the memory bank!!

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When building a new house, you can do with architects, maitros or engineers. but it is necessary to take in mind a bitacora of the work, that the architect or engineer fills it, and the expert (perito) of the work has to sign it according to the advance of the work. Once the house and the full bitacora are finished, we have to go to the catastro goverment office for the habitability of the house, if we do not have the bitacora we are in trouble. So to build a house can be with architects, maistros or engineers. that is why I recommend an architect or an engineer in charge of construction. but the decision one has it, and there are some maistros or contractors who do not know the process of permits as well as construction. luck!!

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Gracias to everyone for this advice.   As I receive this information I am sifting thru it to see what I need to incorporate.  I am an engineer but not civil.  I have built my last three houses here in Oklahoma and hired the people I needed to do the job.  I built in the country and did not need permits or to meet codes.  I wired the houses myself and other than almost  electrocuting myself, things come on when I plug them in...  Recently I wired and plumbed a water well.  I know most of the rudiments  in the skills   I just finished laying over 3,000 tiles in my bathroom   Saying all this, we still would like the casa to be Mexican built.  I hope to daily check on it.  I had thought to let the contractor buy all the material but I can see where there would be a big savings and probably quality improvement if I bought the material.  My wife is a Mexican so we would be able to negotiate with the different concerns.  After reading all your comments I am now leaning towards doing it myself with help of a maitros and 3 or 4 workers.   

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Great idea, go for it!  It will be the experience of a lifetime and you will have many stories to tell.  Just keep in mind that after delivery, materials have a way of........well, disappearing if you don't keep an eagle eye on them. Who really knows where they go. And being able to tell the difference between say 2 and 4 yards of sand is helpful as well as the very different types of sand. Just sayin.....

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Two Maestros and two helpers worked well for me. A couple of days, when they were doing big pours for the floor slab and the ceilings, the maestros hired on a couple more guys for the day, as it all had to get done in one shot. 

If you have experience wiring and plumbing, rafterbr, keep a close eye on that, as you know how it should be done. Most plumbers I've seen working here, on my house and my friends', are clueless about venting the toilets, and even the sinks- they vent the septic instead. They will also sometimes run the toilet drain right under (as in one continuous pipe) the shower drain, meaning you'll have gross sewer smell coming up out of your drains. 

Also be aware that none of your crew may have any math skills- when buying materials to do the roof slab, my maestros determned that we needed x number of bags of cement, x amount of sand, and x amount of gravel. I did the math and told them that there was no way that that amount of materials would fit in that space. They insisted they were right and that "You'll see, at the end there won't be anything left". As the materials for this had to be dumped where it was blocking my neighbor's access, which he had given me permission to do for 2 days, I told the crew, fine, but they'd be moving all the leftover gravel and sand, as it couldn't stay there. Guess what- they spent the next half a day moving all the leftover, on my dime. Plus the 30 bags of cement they overestimated- luckily I had a dry place to store it til it all got used up on the rest of the building.  

But if you do it yourself with a crew, you do still need building permits, IMSS payments, and depending on the size of the house and local requirements, architect and engineers drawings.  I designed my house,  drew out my floor plan and drawings of the outside of the house from all sides, then turned those over to an engineer (perito) to do the official structural drawings I had to submit for the building permit. 

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