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Loud music in San Antonio--how to contact the bar?

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The new restaurant/bar on La Paz has some REALLY loud venues and I don't know if the new owners and/or  the Canadian Legion, whoever owns the place, is aware that part of San Antonio is a residential area. My neighbors say they have spoken to the owners about adhering to a noise ordinance, but nothing seems to have changed.  I cannot find a telephone number or contact information for the establishment. Does anyone know who would be the right person or persons to contact?

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21 minutes ago, kimanjome said:

The new restaurant/bar on La Paz has some REALLY loud venues and I don't know if the new owners and/or  the Canadian Legion, whoever owns the place, is aware that part of San Antonio is a residential area. My neighbors say they have spoken to the owners about adhering to a noise ordinance, but nothing seems to have changed.  I cannot find a telephone number or contact information for the establishment. Does anyone know who would be the right person or persons to contact?

Is that Funky Finn's?  (I think that's the name.)

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If it used to be Casa de Musica, on La Paz, with the Canadian flag flying there, yes. I have been told it is the new home to the Canadian Legion.  It is incredibly loud. The problem is the stage is elevated and there are no walls to enclose the sound.  It can be heard blocks away. Literally, blocks. 

Is there a rep for the Legion or Funky Finn's who can be contacted? 

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“Part of San Antonio is a residential area”

Do we really have bylaws/ordances in place to designate an area as either residential or commercial?

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I live on west side and was clearly heard, fortunately it stopped quite quickly .

No such thing as zoning but there are noise laws which have been discussed many times here.go to the town hall in chapala or speak with someone in the municipal building in sat plaza.

Dont bother with the owners.

 

 

 

 

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There are noise laws. My neighborhood, further east on La Paz, has two popular eventos. One of our Mexican neighbors talked to the town hall, took up a petition. Things are much improved.

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Complain in writing to the licensing office and get a stamped copy of complaint

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Why not stop by & at least try talking to them first? A woman named Catherine , Canadian I believe, ‘owns’ Funky Finns (she has leased the venue from the owner of the property, Tony) and is usually on site. Might be futile but you can always file a  complaint if no improvement. Nice building and obviously a ton of money invested but Craziest location ever to put such a place. I live several blocks away - can’t imagine how it must be for immediate neighbors. 

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This place should serve as an object lesson to all that no neighborhood here is safe from someone taking their residential property in a clearly residential area and turning it into a noisy bar.  Some of you should keep that in mind the next time you sneer and scoff at neighbors who have this sort of thing inflicted on them.  It CAN happen to you too.

OP I really doubt you'll get any satisfaction from the current Chapala government.  There is a strong push coming from the Mexican community to elect a responsive and honest government that will put the safety and well being of all residents in front of the almighty peso.  If that happens we all might have better luck in dealing with these places. 

Our neighbors to the north in GDL and Zopopan have been cracking down on them for several years now with success.  There are ample applicable state and Federal noise laws, the problem is having a government that will enforce them.

If you do file a complaint you are best served by enlisting as many of your neighbors, expat and Mexican, in filing a complaint.  On your own, nothing happening is the most likely outcome.

 

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13 hours ago, kimanjome said:

The new restaurant/bar on La Paz has some REALLY loud venues and I don't know if the new owners and/or  the Canadian Legion, whoever owns the place, is aware that part of San Antonio is a residential area. My neighbors say they have spoken to the owners about adhering to a noise ordinance, but nothing seems to have changed.  I cannot find a telephone number or contact information for the establishment. Does anyone know who would be the right person or persons to contact?

Does Focus on Mexico take their people there?

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They know perfectly well how loud it is. The previous owner knew perfectly well. Heck, going back not too far you can find numerous complaints lodged against the priest at the church off the plaza. He was even admonished by the ArchDiosese... that stopped him for a whole two weeks. And there was a woman who lived in San Antonio (married to the man who owned the place), recently passed, who spent half her life fighting against the noise, the priest, the garbage, the highway banners... to keep it decent for people living in town.

There ARE bylaws. They will NOT be enforced until some bigwig lives in the area.

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Prospective newbies would be wise to read (and believe) what CG and MC have posted. It can and it does happen anywhere and everywhere. If you rent, you can find relief (temporarily perhaps) when your lease is up. If you own you may find that what many are told early on is very true. "Is it easy to buy property in Mexico?  Yes sir, much easier to buy than to sell".

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There are some partial solutions that will help and with any luck if the noise outside is not too loud, meet your needs

With time you get used to some of the high volume, next if you have more than one bedroom you can choose the one least impacted by the noise, then you can as I did, replace the single glazed windows in that bedroom with double glazed to cut down a few more dB. And with any luck by using a set of ear plugs meant to cut the sound down, you will be able to reach a level you can live with.

 

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johanson, forgot one thing, the...

crying-towel.gif

 

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There’s no ‘previous owner’ . Tony is still the owner of the property he’s only leased the venue to Funky Finn’s to run a restaurant/bar.  yes it was previously the  modest private home of Tony and his wife (the deceased woman referenced) and yes ironically they were very well-known locally  for their  efforts to combat  what they viewed as  noise pollution from the local church (the daily recitation of the Rosary broadcast on loudspeakers)

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I stand corrected. I know some things; not everything. Then let me put it this way: Tony knew about the noise when he opened it as a restaurant; the current "tenant" knows about the noise. There is still nothing to be done.

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If you are going to make a complaint we will join you.  We are in upper Chula Vista and it is so loud it keeps us from sleeping.  Yes, I have tried ear plugs but they don't get rid of the noise and make my ears really sore.  I put a pillow over my head and turn on white noise and that doesn't even stop all the noise.

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By the way, we used to live in Los Sabinos in Weather Ajijic.  The first night after we moved in we found there were two eventos outside the condos.  They were not advertised and we had no idea they were there.  The music was extremely loud.  Our neighbors got together, complained and the administrator talked to the owner.  Yes, believe it or not it helped tremendously.  They modified where the stage was located and lowered the volume a good bit.  It was enough to be able to tolerate.  So, don't just automatically think it won't change.  Our community was about half and half expats and Mexican... The Mexican owners were more vocal about the noise than some of the expats.

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Keep in mind it's not just loud music. I remember a post several years ago where someone told of a neighbor opening a metal working shop in their garage a few months after the people bought the house next door. Lots of loud screeching and clanging machinery all day and into the evening. And nothing to be done because small entrepreneurial businesses are encouraged. And the village is mixed use.

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I understand about the music being invasive beyond disturbing your sleep.  It makes it impossible to entertain for an evening. Sitting in your living room to read is not possible. Watching television isn't possible.  Enjoying the night sky from your terrace isn't possible. Everything you might want to do in an evening has to be done to someone else soundtrack.

Please make the complaint but also don't hesitate to tell everyone you meet to not go there because of the excessive loudness.

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As a veteran of 8 solid noise/years in Ajijic, I can offer my experience, which also includes almost 20 years as a professional singer/dancer working full time in bands and shows that utilized amplified sound.  It was due to neighborhood organizing that the huge noise problem from El Barco (2010-2014) and that of Plaza Bugamblilia with its rooftop bar (2013-2017 roughly, although they still have noisy gym classes) was mitigated to the point where it is now bearable.  Kudos to El Barco for doing the right thing.   I live roughly between these two places in addition to the Lienzo Charro and another small event place.  I was in earshot of 4 noisy places!!  It was sheer hell when 2 or 3 were all going at the same time.  It was not like that when I moved there.

#1.  You must get a group of neighbors in the affected area - Mexicans and gringos alike - to get together and coordinate complaints, in person, in writing, and or over the phone AS the noise is actually happening.  If you call Chapala during the noise, they can hear it over the phone so they become witnesses.  They don't send out police, it is a licensing issue.  YOu can ask them, while yelling over the noise, to tell Hugo Herrera the licensing boss 331 043 3772 - about the noise problem.  Call both chapala and Herrera, the more complaints the better.  Sooner or later it will wear them down and they will do something.  This organizing and calling requires Spanish speaking people.  You can't count on anyone at Chapala understanding or speaking English.  I speak reasonable Spanish and was able to help organize my neighbors. 

Some say the noise issue will be a political issue in this years' MX elections.  Here is the cruzancontraelruido FB page, see how Mexicans really feel about the noise problem.  They now have well over 32,500 likes.   https://www.facebook.com/CruzadaContraElRuido/

#2.  Any bar owner who allows this type of noise level, as well as the 'musicians", do not know what they are doing and are in the wrong line of work.  If the owners are Canadians, and the musicians are gringos, they probably completely take for granted the strict noise regulations up north and don't realize they have to adjust their sound levels to the ambient structures in Mexico which are completely open air and constructed of concrete and bricks which only serve to amplify the noise even more. 

Any one from up north who doesn't recognize that salient fact is lacking in professional experience.  Quality musicians NEVER play too loud.  And if asked to turn down, they will politely oblige.  In all my years of performance experience we NEVER had any sound issues because everyone was a professional who knew what they were doing.  Here, it seems that no one knows what they are doing, and they need to learn before driving lots of people crazy.

 If this noise can be heard in Chula Vista it is WAY too loud.  All affected parties must get together on this, the more the better.  I've been to that place for a speaking event a couple years ago.  The guest speaker was frequently interrupted by neighbors' chickens!!  It was funny, but amplified music is about 50 times as loud as a chicken.  There are neighbors closely adjacent to this property in what was once a quiet neighborhood.  It's shocking that anyone could imagine having loud amplified noise in such a place.  I was a block away from El Barco and the rock bands were pure torture.

3.  Most Mexicans are completely unaware of the Federal Ley de Sonido - the Sound Law that was passed in 2014.  I made copies of it from a post on this board and circulated it among my Mexican neighbors.  We were lucky to have Dale Palfrey reporting on these issues some time ago in the GR.  When the Mexicans realize that there is some legal recourse, and that lots of complaining will eventually get results, they will come around.  They are often reluctant to complain out of fear of reprisals or just lacking the faith that it will do any good because the bars simply pay off the inspectors to allow it to continue.  However, heavily fining these noise polluters would earn a lot more $$$ for Chapala, why don't they do it??

Here is a link to the Sound Law   http://www.saudicaves.com/mx/noise/Decibeles.pdf    Below, I pasted a goole, not the best,  English translation of it.

4. Neighbors should start with visiting the bar and talking with the owners.  Let them know what a great invasion of their home life it is and how much they hate it.  Let them see how upset you are.  Ask them what their experience in working with amplified sound is.  Chances are... zilch.  Many newbies here erroneously believe that "anything goes" in MX, and that loud bar noise is "part of the culture."  Wrong on both counts.  If you spoke Spanish and talked to Mexican neighbors of these bars, you would find they hate the often lousy rock bands as much or even more than the nearby gringos.  

5. Back when I posted on the Ajijic noise issues, I was frequently advised on this board to move somewhere quiet like... San Antonio.  You see how things can change?  The noise problem has simply moved over there but it is better here, now, gracias a Dios!!

I just found this in my Documents - the English translation of the MX Sound Law,  Please note that the acceptable level of sound in a residential area is 55 DB, equal to roughly a normal speaking voice :  WITHOUT AMPLIFICATION.  

****************

LEY FEDERAL DE RUIDO

AGREEMENT by that paragraph 5.4 of the Official Mexican Standard NOM-081-SEMARNAT-1994 is changed, Which establishes the maximum permissible limits for noise emission point sources and their method of measurement.

The margin a seal with the National Shield, that says: United Mexican States Department of the Environment and Natural Resources.

CUAUHTÉMOC FERNANDEZ OCHOA, Undersecretary of Development and Environmental Regulation, with Based on the provisions of Articles 32 Bis of the Organic Law of the Federal Public Administration; 51, second paragraph, of the Federal Law on Metrology and Standardization; . 5 or fr actions V and XV; Fifteen, Sections III, XII and XVI, 36, section II and last paragraph, 37b and 155 of the General Law of Balance Ecological and Environmental Protection; 8 sections III and IV of the Internal Regulations of the Secretariat or Medi Environment and Natural Resources, and

CONSIDERING 

That noise pollution is a major environmental problem with growing presence modern society, due to the development of industrial, commercial and service activities that are both fixed and mobile sources that generate different types of noise, according to its intensity, frequency and time of exposure, impact not only in humans but in living things in an ecosystem where the human population is immersed.

Article 4 or. Of the Constitution of the United Mexican States establishes the right of everyone to a healthy environment for their development and welfare, involving constitutional mandate protection of all natural and artificial or human-induced elements that make possible the existence and development of human beings and other living organisms that interact in space and certain time.

Article 155 of the General Law of Ecological Balance and Environmental Protection, prohibits as noise emissions ceilings established in the official Mexican standards are exceeded issued by the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources, considering the values of maximum allowable concentration for humans of pollutants in the atmosphere that determine the Health Secretary.

The January 13 of 1995, was published in the Official Gazette, Mexican Official Standard NOM-081-SEMARNAT-1994, which establishes the maximum permissible limits noise emission of stationary sources and their method of measurement to be amended policy theme reiterated in the National Standardization Programme published in the same means of disseminating the official April 29 two thousand and thirteen.

That despite the existence of normative regulation mentioned in the previous paragraph, our country, worldwide, it continues to be reported as examples of nations where they have increased problems caused by noise pollution. For example, the World Health Organization He has It estimated that at least 120 million people worldwide have hearing problems result of excessive noise to which they are subjected, especially in large cities.

Which in turn, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) reported thirteen million people in its member countries, including Mexico, are exposed to a noise levels above 65 decibels. In this regard, recently, in the year two thousand and twelve National Sound Archive He performed the measurement of sound levels in five different locations in the capital of Mexico, reporting that in Mexico City the desirable upper limit recommended by the Organization exceeded World Health.

As above, impels to take concrete measures to protect human health, pursuant to precautionary principle according to which, the lack of scientific certainty is not an obstacle to take measures to protect the environment and human health, but it is discredited by the process of amending existing regulations in the field.

Article 51 of the Federal Law on Metrology and Standardization establishes that when not persist the reasons for the issuance of an official Mexican standard, the National Advisory Committee Appropriate standard, amend the standard in question without following the procedure for their processing, unless intending to introduce new requirements or procedures or specifications more strict.

That in the present case, although some remaining the reasons for issuing the Mexican Official Standard NOM-081-SEMARNAT-1994, which establishes the maximum permissible limits

noise emission of stationary sources and measurement method, it is also true that these causes have been largely overcome by the present reality of the damaging effect of noise on humans, which has been described above.****

 

That the analysis of the current regulations, it follows that the maximum permissible levels of noise in weight "A", contained in Table 1 of the aforementioned official Mexican standard, leading to all noise sources must comply with the same values, which is not an appropriate criterion; Given the various human activities taking place within any installation, can not be equated, so in the opinion of the Federal Commission for Protection Against Health Risks Secretariat Health and the Ministry of Environment and Natural Resources, provision levels from noise and zoning recommended by the World Health Organization.

There are substantial differences between the levels of noise in a residential, industrial zone, commercial or service, so that the determination of the maximum permissible noise levels for each one of them, does not generate unnecessary obligations to those areas in which activities are developed quieter, without prejudice to such zoning represents greater benefits in health People who are exposed to high levels of noise emission.

In this regard, the Directorate General of Industry, on technical assessment, submitted to me consideration this instrument, same which aims to clarify the ceilings permissible sound level in weighting "A" issued by stationary sources, taking into account the activity generating the same, the areas which may occur and the times in which you can generated; changes do not create new requirements or procedures, but only accurate and individually important to determine acceptable levels of noise and technical aspects, so I hereby issue the following:

 

"AGREEMENT AMENDING PARAGRAPH 5.4 OF MEXICAN OFFICIAL STANDARD NOM 
081-SEMARNAT-1994, which establishes the maximum permissible limits ISSUE FROM 
NOISE SOURCES FIXED AND MEASURING METHOD ON " 

 

ARTICLE OR NICO. Paragraph 5.4 of the Official Mexican Standard NOM-081-SEMARNAT-1994 is amended Which establishes the maximum permissible limits for noise emission point sources and method measurement to establish the following:

"5.4 the maximum permissible noise level weighting" A "issued by stationary sources, are established in Table 1.

Table 1. Maximum permissible limits. 

AREA 

SCHEDULE 

Threshold Limit Value 
PERMISSIBLE dB (A) 

Residential 1 (exterior)

6:00 to 22:00 

22:00 to 6:00 

55 

50 

Industrial and commercial

6:00 to 22:00 

22:00 to 6:00 

68 

65 

Schools (outdoor areas of game)

During the game 

55 

Ceremonies, festivals andentertainment events.

4 hours 

100 

1

 Understood by: single family and multi-family housing; apartment housing with trading floor; mixed residential housing; apartment housing offices; neighborhood centers and areas of educational services.

TRANSIENT 

SOLE. This Agreement shall enter into force on the day following its publication in the Official Journal of the Federation.

Mexico, Federal District, on the sei s day of November two thousand the Thirteenth -. The Secretary for Environmental Regulation, Cuauhtémoc Ochoa Fernández .- Signature.

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Those threshold numbers are ridiculously low being exceeded inside any restaurant. There are stop sign laws too etc.

absolute_threshold_for_sound.jpg

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This noise thing has been talked about on this board so many times now.. And nothing ever changes....Why because these venues attract customers. The bar in question was packed on Saturday night two weeks ago.. 

The BS about El Barco is so funny.. The expat's like to tell everyone that they made a difference with El Barco.. BS.. El Barco put a roof on because they were getting rained out to many times and that caused them to lose money.. So hence a roof.. Not because one expat complained.....

 

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On 3/25/2018 at 2:50 PM, TelsZ4 said:

This noise thing has been talked about on this board so many times now.. And nothing ever changes....Why because these venues attract customers. The bar in question was packed on Saturday night two weeks ago.. 

The BS about El Barco is so funny.. The expat's like to tell everyone that they made a difference with El Barco.. BS.. El Barco put a roof on because they were getting rained out to many times and that caused them to lose money.. So hence a roof.. Not because one expat complained.....

 

It wasn't "one expat" complaining, it was a combination of Mexican neighbors and one expat in the area.  One Mexican family in the area had friends in Chapala.  The change in El Barco came about exactly at the same time the GR ran an article about the sound law and how 2 of the "worst offenders" were being warned they would lose their licenses if there were any more complaints.  Not a peep was heard from El Barco  as they put in TVs and also upgraded the quality of the music but much less was heard of it.  

The change in Plaza B to put in a gym upstairs came about exactly after there were numerous complaints to Chapala regarding a super loud rock group played there (rooftop, no walls, terrible 6 piece group) several times and the neighbors coordinated complaints to Chapala.  Not a peep was heard from that bar again.  AFter the gym was built, the bar moved to the 2nd floor right below it.  They hung in there another year having to endure the noise from the exercise classes in open air rooms.  Talk about karma.  They eventually went out of business.

Once an egregious noise maker receives complaints about their noise, it is nothing short of an act of hostility to keep repeating it.  Human decency would require that they mitigate that problem by at least completely enclosing and soundproofing the venue if they want to be in the noise business.  Torturing your neighbors is not a good way to go through even a portion of your life.   And, no, earplugs and white noise machines do nothing to mitigate the severe DB levels from these wannabe rock stars who are still trying to live out their high school fantasies.   Those things aren't even available here, and most Mexicans couldn't afford them anyway.  Earplugs would make it impossible to hear your other family members, especially the kids.   My MX neighbors don't have internet connections to get the UTube sleep videos.   No one should have to wear earplugs in their own homes because of someone else's complete ignorance of how to use amplified sound.  This noise issue is one area where MX lags far behind the USA where amplified sound was invented and developed over 80 years ago.  MX needs to get up to speed on regulating this noise pollution and strictly enforcing the regulations just like up north.

I remind all concerned that continuous very loud noise has been used as an instrument of torture by the US military in prisons in both Iraq and Guantanamo Bay.  You can give someone a complete nervous breakdown in a day or two.  Even a few hours will drive you crazy, repeatedly, it is seriously stressful.  I've seen comments on the cruzadacontraelruido FB page that said things like..."I want to kill my neighbor..."  

And don't forget that the Mexicans are well aware that the gringos are the first to complain about the traditional fiesta noise which happens only in limited times of the year.  Bars go on all year around all year around, very out of sync with a small traditional MX pueblito.

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6 minutes ago, ezpz said:

  This noise issue is one area where MX lags far behind the USA where amplified sound was invented and developed over 80 years ago.  MX needs to get up to speed on regulating this noise pollution and strictly enforcing the regulations just like up north.

 

What would poor Mexico do without NOBers "shining the light" for them?

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