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kimanjome

Do you pay staff for sick days, and how much?

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It sounds like you need a detailed job description for the gardener. Then document every time that he deviates—late, no show, whatever. Make the job description reasonable and make sure he agrees. 

How many hours does the housekeeper work? If she is full time then you may have an employee on your hands. I think Azucena is the best attorney in the area for employee negotiations. 

 

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At the times when I've hired a new household employee, I make a list of the duties that person is supposed to accomplish during the course of a day, talk with the new employee about the items on the list and give him or her a copy.  Then I put the list up on the refrigerator so the new employee can refer to it as needed.  After a week or two, when the employee no longer needs to refer to the list, I take the list off the refrigerator and keep my copy.  Both the employee and I know what work has to be done, nobody has a surprise and nobody has a problem.  If the employee forgets something for a week or so, I'll remind him/her. 

As for the rest of the legalities (vacation, aguinaldo, legal holidays), I follow labor law.   My employee and I have a work relationship, friendly with one another but nothing more.

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Hire a lawyer to prepare the necessary paperwork and severance pay.  Then have the lawyer fire them.   Do not even bother talking to the maid oe gardener about it.

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I have no problem. I let my Mexican wife do the hiring and firing. HAHAHAHAHAHA

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31 minutes ago, Tiny said:

I have no problem. I let my Mexican wife do the hiring and firing. HAHAHAHAHAHA

I am sure you have enough problems as it is. HAHAHAHAHAHA

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If you do decide to fire these people,  before hiring new workers please sit down with your husband and get clear on what your expectations and household rules are. Write it down if you have to. Or agree that only one of you will interface with your employees and the other will butt out. Otherwise you will be facing similar problems down the road.

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I am struck by how different our experiences with employees has been compared to others' experiences. We just haven't had these kinds of problems except in one case when we first got here. Had to get rid of our first gardener but it was very simple and painless. We had a lawyer do the paperwork and paid what was due without any problems. We have had the same housekeeper the entire time and the same gardener since replacing that first one. No problems at all. Maybe we are just lucky.

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You are lucky. I have a good friend who just went through this with the cleaning lady. She got talking to another maid, and started demanding 70p instead of 50p, holidays off with triple time, paid vacation, lunches, extra bus fare... all kinds of crap unbefitting a person who works four hours a week. Problems were solved by getting this person to quit with a healthy sum in her pocket. Far more than she is worth based on her truly poor performance over the last two years.

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3 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

You are lucky. I have a good friend who just went through this with the cleaning lady. She got talking to another maid, and started demanding 70p instead of 50p, holidays off with triple time, paid vacation, lunches, extra bus fare... all kinds of crap unbefitting a person who works four hours a week. Problems were solved by getting this person to quit with a healthy sum in her pocket. Far more than she is worth based on her truly poor performance over the last two years.

And she and her friends are part of the Morena Party base that will elect Obrador and screw over big business and the successful. :(

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kimanjome

To answer your question, you don't.

You don't pay any of the days they missed work.

Regarding the IMSS, I would advise you to become their employer, this is mainly to avoid any issues with IMSS.

Don't worry about feeling like you're running a business out of your home, it won't be the case; but it is strongly recommended to have a special contract signed with them.

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On 3/23/2018 at 12:42 PM, cedros said:

No work, no pay.

 

No social security, no workers. 

Consult the Ley Federal de Trabajo or find a lawyer to explain it to you. 

If you are not providing the mandatory benefits to your workers, you are acting illegally.

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On 4/12/2018 at 12:34 PM, REC said:

I am struck by how different our experiences with employees has been compared to others' experiences. We just haven't had these kinds of problems except in one case when we first got here. Had to get rid of our first gardener but it was very simple and painless. We had a lawyer do the paperwork and paid what was due without any problems. We have had the same housekeeper the entire time and the same gardener since replacing that first one. No problems at all. Maybe we are just lucky.

Best advice here: If you are not familiar with the local laws, consult a lawyer.

If you are employing anyone, you need a signed contract. Workers have rights, including access to public healthcare and vacation days. Not providing these benefits make you illegal and your immigration status can be compromised.

 

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On 4/12/2018 at 2:25 PM, AlanMexicali said:

And she and her friends are part of the Morena Party base that will elect Obrador and screw over big business and the successful. :(

 

The Ley Federal de Trabajo and the Constitución Política have existed from waaaaay before López Obrador was even born. 

Consult a lawyer.

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I suggestyou  remove yourself from the  discussion  and get the services of a  attorney  asap, let them deal with closure? Move on and find new workers and establish the  ground rules and your expectations...or higher a contract service

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On 3/17/2018 at 1:15 PM, kimanjome said:

Thanks, Bisbee. I am familiar with your gardens and pool, they are the same sizes as mine, except my pool is smaller. Actually, our yard shrank when we put in a  small pool, and the gardener insisted he would take care of the pool.  After three months we noticed that he was unable to do so, and thus, we hired a pool service. So, his job duties have changed. Nevertheless, he still maintains our yard gardens satisfactorily, as well as the street side of the house, and he trims back large tree limbs as needed, so I need not call a tree service. 

When it rains we have him sweep the garage, or put the cars in the street to wash them. Sometimes he will leave, as there is truly nothing to do.  We pay him, regardless.

What I am not liking is how there seems to be some kind of competition between the gardener and housekeeper; if we give him something, like an old wrought iron grate, then the next time we are discarding something, she makes a point of stating that the gardener got it last time, and  she would like to have it this time.  And vice versa. Its almost like they sibling rivals, but they are both in their 50s! 

My husband has suggested that we (meaning, me and the gardener,  then later, me and the housekeeper) sit down at a table and discuss vacation, sick days, and time off. So the policy of this household is clear.  Take it or leave it. Also, do we continue to provide coffee and food for the housekeeper, and sodas for the gardener and his helper? Everyone I have spoken to says they provide drinks and food, as well as freebies, like old TVs and refrigerators, etc. 

About the gardener blowing up: yes, he became loud and agitated, waving his arms, insisting he is a good person (true)....due in part, I am sure, to his frustration in not knowing the rules of household, as they have been inconsistent between hubby and myself. On the other hand, should we really need to have strict rules?

 

 

I agree with others opinions. I would get rid of both ASAP but with the aid if an atty.

Your help are abusing you.

You are the boss. If they don't like your way too bad.. It's my way or the highway.

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Some very important questions, and no simple answer.

 

First you state "This brings me back to my housekeeper, who wants IMSS, which means I become her employer. "

If she works for you and you pay her you are her employer. Its called part time.

Question. When you hire someone (maid,gardner) are you required by law to register them with the tax department (includes IMSS)

How many hours a week demands them to be registered with tax department?

What are your requirments regards sick leave, vacation pay, comp when firing when with IMSS.

What is required as above if not with IMSS.

I ran business in both Canada and here in Mexico and will state the laws and tax system are totally differant. I have live full time in Mexico 21 years now.

I have had to deal with letting people go, and also firing people.

This much I will tell you. When I needed to fire my maid for stealing from me (lawyer advised getting the crime on tape, which I did) I learned LEGALLY she was entitled to full comp and that is sad. The only way around getting out of comp was going to the proscuters office and filing a report with the video tape. 

This much I will tell you, Mexican law protects the employee and not the employyer.

Also if you do not have a contract you lose. If you do have a contract there are things you must do to fire someone to avoid paying out.

My personal feeling regards having a maid or gardner (which I have) is if they need time off for being sick then get a doctors note and they get paid.

If they are on IMSS that is already built in, they get a note and I must pay them. For extended sick time off there are laws.

If you employ someone either on IMSS or not and you need to let them go know they are INTITLED by law for payment.

Suggest to find out what the law is. I am not qualifed to tell you and will consult my lawyer or employment office in Guad if I need to let my maid or gardner go as I have not had to let onego in over 10 years now. 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 4/12/2018 at 2:14 PM, ComputerGuy said:

You are lucky. I have a good friend who just went through this with the cleaning lady. She got talking to another maid, and started demanding 70p instead of 50p, holidays off with triple time, paid vacation, lunches, extra bus fare... all kinds of crap unbefitting a person who works four hours a week. Problems were solved by getting this person to quit with a healthy sum in her pocket. Far more than she is worth based on her truly poor performance over the last two years.

 

On 4/12/2018 at 2:25 PM, AlanMexicali said:

And she and her friends are part of the Morena Party base that will elect Obrador and screw over big business and the successful. :(

My speculation 2 years ago and 1 1/3 years after taking office was spot on. IMO

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On 3/27/2020 at 12:19 PM, Bisbee Gal said:

Bennie??

No way. That post actually had complete sentences and punctuation.

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6 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

No way. That post actually had complete sentences and punctuation.

When I forge checks I write with my opposite hand....just sayin'

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