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Lakeside increased population?


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4 hours ago, AngusMactavish said:

I am hardly poor, but the lady at the clinic where I subscribed did not ask me how I live, where I live, how much money I get as income, or how much I have in the bank. It is safe to assume that since I do not or did not pay any money that it is free. All she saw was my ordinary papers and visa.

PS, you have to apply.

You must have been at a community clinic in north Chapala or the one in Joco or do you mean the Ajijic clinic?  You get a card when you apply for SG and have to show that for SG clinics.

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Back where we lived in the states we had trash pickup once a week but paid 70 USD a month for it. Our home taxes were approx 12,000USD. School taxes were about 4,000. Internet about 100 per month for

I'd agree with your observation Lakeside7.  IMHO there are two primary causes: 1.  Mexican car ownership has skyrocketed.  In Jalisco for example car sales are increasing annually at a rate aroun

Do not worry michel 2595, the town never was clean  or in tip top shape so there is no danger we go back to the original town. We I came in in 2001, there was more sewer lines broken and raw sewage go

19 hours ago, bdmowers said:

Not quite, one must have temporal or permanente for SG. Tourist visa holders don`t qualify.

There are no tourist visas, just tourist permits.

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46 minutes ago, bdmowers said:

You must have been at a community clinic in north Chapala or the one in Joco or do you mean the Ajijic clinic?  You get a card when you apply for SG and have to show that for SG clinics.

I got my poliza, a one-page policy in Chapala. 

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15 hours ago, RickS said:

Well, I will have to take exception to this statement once again.  In addition to Mexico I travel quite a bit in the US. I am once again in Florida for a month where 10s or 100s of thousands of folks retire. Most of them would not be caught dead.... no pun intended.... in Mexico but they swarm here because it is better, weather wise, than the frozen northland. And there is year-around golf, and fishing and..... playing shuffleboard!!! 

One can tell by looking that many of them are probably living on SS and a small stash of other funds.... driving a 2001 Mercury Monterrey.  The same kind of financial resouces that it takes to move to Mexico these days. The COL is not terrible and especially if one takes into account the myriad of housing options and almost ALL of them cheaper than one would pay Lakeside. Just in the one location where I presently am staying there are TONS of houses, many that I would personally live in especially if I had more limited funds at my disposal and was trying to escape the frozen north. I could pick up a double-wide (nicely furnished) for $25k.... or a great 3/2/2 house on a canal to the lake for $140k. For $195 I could live above my means so to speak.... just looked at a newer place today for that price that I would buy in a heartbeat if inclined to live here. And this is just 1 of more than 100 places that have the same ‘credentials’ in Florida. 

My point is that there are tons of places in the US where the ‘total’ COL is equal to or less than Lakeside. One does not have to go to Quartzsite Az. and live in an RV. Not many to my knowledge that have the climate of Lakeside but Lakeside is pretty unique even in Mexico for climate. And there is a lot for retirees to do in the place I am presently. Hot is summer.... yes!  Am I going to move here... no!  But, as I say, 100s of thousands of folks are here and more coming each day... to take the place of those who pass.... and live out their lives on their limited resources. 

We own a house here in Ajijic and a house in Florida.  

Both happen to have the same approximate market value.  Though our house in FL is about 1/2 the size of our Ajijic house and has no pool or casita.  Both houses are within a block of the water.  Our FL home is in a funky liberal artsy town, were we can walk to 12+ non-chain eateries and our town hosts a lot of events, including twice monthly Art Walks and a weekly farmer's market.  It is old FL...brick streets and live oaks with hanging Spanish moss.  Most homes are cottages built between the 1920s and 1940s.  

The biggest difference between the two locales is the annual carrying costs of these homes.  

Our FL real estate taxes are $3,100.  For a new buyer, they will immediately shoot to $5,300 (and as high as $6,100 for a non-FL resident) as FL has caps on increases that have kept our taxes low(?!?!) but they will re-assess taxes at the time of sale.   

Our FL homeowner's insurance is $3,250.  

Our FL flood insurance is $450.  Note: we are literally on the line between our low cost flood insurance and much higher flood....our neighbors across the street from us (same block) pay $2,000 for flood insurance. 

Our Ajijic taxes are roughly the equivalent of US $250. 

Our Ajijic homeowner's (which covers flood and earthquake) is roughly the equivalent of $300.  

Yes, you can live in backwater areas or cookie cutter suburbia of FL and other states with lower property taxes.  But to live in the US in an area with a lot of attributes, walkability, etc. you  will pay a lot more.  Our two homes are as close to an apples-to-apples comparison of 2 towns in 2 different countries as you can get (though the weather here is so much better).  

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1 hour ago, Bisbee Gal said:

We own a house here in Ajijic and a house in Florida.  

Both happen to have the same approximate market value.  Though our house in FL is about 1/2 the size of our Ajijic house and has no pool or casita.  Both houses are within a block of the water.  Our FL home is in a funky liberal artsy town, were we can walk to 12+ non-chain eateries and our town hosts a lot of events, including twice monthly Art Walks and a weekly farmer's market.  It is old FL...brick streets and live oaks with hanging Spanish moss.  Most homes are cottages built between the 1920s and 1940s.  

The biggest difference between the two locales is the annual carrying costs of these homes.  

Our FL real estate taxes are $3,100.  For a new buyer, they will immediately shoot to $5,300 (and as high as $6,100 for a non-FL resident) as FL has caps on increases that have kept our taxes low(?!?!) but they will re-assess taxes at the time of sale.   

Our FL homeowner's insurance is $3,250.  

Our FL flood insurance is $450.  Note: we are literally on the line between our low cost flood insurance and much higher flood....our neighbors across the street from us (same block) pay $2,000 for flood insurance. 

Our Ajijic taxes are roughly the equivalent of US $250. 

Our Ajijic homeowner's (which covers flood and earthquake) is roughly the equivalent of $300.  

Yes, you can live in backwater areas or cookie cutter suburbia of FL and other states with lower property taxes.  But to live in the US in an area with a lot of attributes, walkability, etc. you  will pay a lot more.  Our two homes are as close to an apples-to-apples comparison of 2 towns in 2 different countries as you can get (though the weather here is so much better).  

Good analysis but you left out one part of the analysis.. Why would your Florida house, with much higher carrying costs, half the size and hot summer weather sell on the open market for the same price as the Ajijic home? Are buyers just stupid there or are there genuine reasons for that? Is the walkability perhaps better there, or maybe the infrastructure, parking, regulation of noise, trash pickup, police and fire protection, schools,and last but not least, crime?

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31 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

Good analysis but you left out one part of the analysis.. Why would your Florida house, with much higher carrying costs, half the size and hot summer weather sell on the open market for the same price as the Ajijic home? Are buyers just stupid there or are there genuine reasons for that? Is the walkability perhaps better there, or maybe the infrastructure, parking, regulation of noise, trash pickup, police and fire protection, schools,and last but not least, crime?

Why does a 3BR 1BA home in close-in DC (Arlington, Alexandria) cost more than a 4BR 4BA home outside the Beltway?   Why does a loft in downtown Tucson near the University cost more than a cookie cutter home in a brand new suburb on the outskirts?  Why does a house in Ajijic cost more than a similar sized/attributed home in Riberas?

People want to be close to amenities.  Walkability is a huge factor in house-hunting in the US, especially for retirees.  People who lived in the suburbs (with horrible commutes and having to drive to fetch a quart of milk) during their working lives and raising kids, in-town living with eateries and shops within walking distance is what they seek.

Location location location.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/where-we-live/wp/2016/02/01/homes-you-can-buy-for-500000-across-the-u-s/?utm_term=.241409c391cc

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/15/business/the-future-of-retirement-communities-walkable-and-urban.html

Mr. Leinberger, in a G.W.U. study, found that the walkability factor added more than 72 percent increased housing value compared with car-dominated developments, where he says prices will fall over time as America ages.

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20 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

Good analysis but you left out one part of the analysis.. Why would your Florida house, with much higher carrying costs, half the size and hot summer weather sell on the open market for the same price as the Ajijic home? Are buyers just stupid there or are there genuine reasons for that? Is the walkability perhaps better there, or maybe the infrastructure, parking, regulation of noise, trash pickup, police and fire protection, schools,and last but not least, crime?

'" Both happen to have the same approximate market value. " (Bisbee Gal)

Doesn't that answer the question?  How can you translate "services" and "weather" into dollar value? Let's add in the "fear factor" and of course, location, etc., etc., etc.

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14 minutes ago, gringal said:

'" Both happen to have the same approximate market value. " (Bisbee Gal)

Doesn't that answer the question?  How can you translate "services" and "weather" into dollar value? Let's add in the "fear factor" and of course, location, etc., etc., etc.

You mean weather, services, etc. don't figure into what a willing buyer will pay? If they don't what would account for the fact that they have the same approximate value? Why would someone pay, let's say. $300,000 for half the house in Florida with 10 times the carrying costs? Especially if Ajijic is so much better in nearly every respect?  Which "location" makes the 2 equal in your opinion? It sounds to me like the Florida "location" makes buyers willing to spend the same amount for half the house with much higher costs. But human nature being what it is, it's much easier to say those willing buyers are just dumb and we here in Mexico are much smarter. Hey, you hear that at every social function you attend, no?

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27 minutes ago, Bisbee Gal said:

Why does a 3BR 1BA home in close-in DC (Arlington, Alexandria) cost more than a 4BR 4BA home outside the Beltway?   Why does a loft in downtown Tucson near the University cost more than a cookie cutter home in a brand new suburb on the outskirts?  Why does a house in Ajijic cost more than a similar sized/attributed home in Riberas?

People want to be close to amenities.  Walkability is a huge factor in house-hunting in the US, especially for retirees.  People who lived in the suburbs (with horrible commutes and having to drive to fetch a quart of milk) during their working lives and raising kids, in-town living with eateries and shops within walking distance is what they seek.

Location location location.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/where-we-live/wp/2016/02/01/homes-you-can-buy-for-500000-across-the-u-s/?utm_term=.241409c391cc

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/15/business/the-future-of-retirement-communities-walkable-and-urban.html

Mr. Leinberger, in a G.W.U. study, found that the walkability factor added more than 72 percent increased housing value compared with car-dominated developments, where he says prices will fall over time as America ages.

Well, if someone as wise as Mr. Leinberger said it you can take it to the bank. Sell those suburban houses short while the pickings are still good. Is there a futures market for that?

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21 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

You mean weather, services, etc. don't figure into what a willing buyer will pay? If they don't what would account for the fact that they have the same approximate value? Why would someone pay, let's say. $300,000 for half the house in Florida with 10 times the carrying costs? Especially if Ajijic is so much better in nearly every respect?  Which "location" makes the 2 equal in your opinion? It sounds to me like the Florida "location" makes buyers willing to spend the same amount for half the house with much higher costs. But human nature being what it is, it's much easier to say those willing buyers are just dumb and we here in Mexico are much smarter. Hey, you hear that at every social function you attend, no?

Afraid you got my post wrong, all the way.  OF COURSE every single factor matters and does affect the price of real estate.  We are not "smarter" to buy here in Mexico and I've never heard that at social functions. (Maybe I hang out with a different crowd.)  The "fear factor" probably makes the greatest difference.  What I heard at social functions NOB when I floated the notion of moving to Mexico was otherwise sensible people predicting our demise at the hands of criminals.  We are risk takers.  That is why I am living in a spacious home in Ajijic within walking distance to a very walkable malecon on the lake instead of a higher priced, overtaxed, tiny place in California.

People are inclined to pat themselves on the back and attribute luck to brains when their decisions result in a good outcome.  It's human nature.  We love to gloat a bit, too. However, things beyond our control could quickly turn our good luck into a nightmare scenario where expats would be willing to abandon their homes, cross their fingers and head elsewhere as fast as they could.  It's called "risk taker Plan B" and I'll wager most of us have one.B)

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I rest my case. You and me and others like us have chosen to live in Mexico and are willing to pay the same prices for housing since we get more house, better weather, etc. but we freely give up the other factors I mentioned in a NOB house or area. But we are in the minority which keeps our housing costs low, right? Perhaps the smugness of lakeside that used to be so prevalent is no longer true. I distinctly remember the endless photos in the GR of first Joe Blow presenting some "award" to Jane Doe for her great work in helping some great cause. Then a couple of months later there's a picture of Jane Doe presenting Joe Blow with some achievement award for this that or the other thing. The only thing that changed was the actual pictures of Joe and Jane. I'm glad to hear that me leaving assisted in changing the culture of lakeside. As the saying goes, it was getting pretty deep there.

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Bisbee Gal’s analysis is, of course, spot on!  I know the quaint little burg where her Florida home sits... maybe even the street. The reason, IMO, that it has the value it has is..... location location location. It’s a funky little artsy place on the bay, tucked into an otherwise overgrown St. Petersburg peninsula... walkable as she says with great little restaurants and shops. And, with the price that comes along with such a niche place. 

But my part of this conversation is in rebuttal to the thought that there is nowhere NOB than one can retire on “SS and a bit more” (one cannot qualify to live in Mexico on SS alone, thus the ‘bit more’). There are plenty of places. Will they have the almost perfect climate of Lakeside? Most probably not. Will there be 100s of thousands of folks doing so and not cluttering up the Lakeside carretera and be ‘perfectly happy’ ? IMO yes there will. Will it be to places like Florida or S. Arizona or even, god forbid, Texas? Of course it will. Will their COL be similar to living Lakeside? Again, IMO, yes it will but not in a place like Bisbee Gal’s hideaway because there aren’t many of those around and when one finds one, there is a price to pay. 

... and to pappysmarket: of course buyers are not crazy. One pays what one has to pay and can pay. In another life I left Houston Tx for Colorado and paid half again as much for a lesser house in Colorado. Why?  You guessed it!

Again, YMMV

 

 

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I'll just say the numbers are far better in New Mexico than Florida.  Much less need for cooling, much lower homeowners insurance, no need for flood insurance.  Property taxes are similar but the services are first rate.  Gas much cheaper, restaurants more expensive but you have the option of picking up gourmet prepared fare at a Fresh Fields market or similar for about the same as a meal out locally.  Homes cost about the same per square foot in similar levels of neighborhood.

Here?  Well here once again everyone put their trash out for pickup and no show resulting in trash all over the streets once again.

The sad thing is it isn't like this in other places in Mexico similar to this one and it wasn't like this when we moved here 10 years ago.  

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Re: trash p/u.  It "looks" like the new trash contractor started last week here.  We are on Independencia nr. Pedro Morena (aka Aquiles Serdan) and the truck was very early this morning....around 8AM.  Is it possible you put your trash out too late? 

We saw what we assume to be the private contractor's truck late last week...it is one of those small compactors, not what the city was using. 

Also, FYI, when I had an issue with a truck being late, I went online to Chapala website and hit their Chat button.  I like that feature because I can write and read Spanish better than I hear and speak it.  Anyway, the woman on Chat asked me where we lived, put me on hold.  She came back and typed that it was near us...and sure enough it had just pulled up.  I think she is able to call the truck driver.  But this was when the City employees were doing the trash.  Not sure if she can call the contractor. 

But the Chat feature is nice.

Re: NM real estate.  We looked for real estate in NM when we retired in 2003.  Walkable places like Old Mesilla, Taos and Santa Fe were sky high.  Downtown Albuquerque was just starting to get gentrified and we didn't want a project house.   We liked Silver City a lot and it was affordable, but was way too cold in winter.  

 

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No it is not possible we went out too late.  Neighbors had trash out at dawn.  You think an entire neighborhood put their trash out too late including the ones who put it out the night before?  :D

 

 

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1 hour ago, RickS said:

Bisbee Gal’s analysis is, of course, spot on!  I know the quaint little burg where her Florida home sits... maybe even the street. The reason, IMO, that it has the value it has is..... location location location. It’s a funky little artsy place on the bay, tucked into an otherwise overgrown St. Petersburg peninsula... walkable as she says with great little restaurants and shops. And, with the price that comes along with such a niche place. 

But my part of this conversation is in rebuttal to the thought that there is nowhere NOB than one can retire on “SS and a bit more” (one cannot qualify to live in Mexico on SS alone, thus the ‘bit more’). There are plenty of places. Will they have the almost perfect climate of Lakeside? Most probably not. Will there be 100s of thousands of folks doing so and not cluttering up the Lakeside carretera and be ‘perfectly happy’ ? IMO yes there will. Will it be to places like Florida or S. Arizona or even, god forbid, Texas? Of course it will. Will their COL be similar to living Lakeside? Again, IMO, yes it will but not in a place like Bisbee Gal’s hideaway because there aren’t many of those around and when one finds one, there is a price to pay. 

... and to pappysmarket: of course buyers are not crazy. One pays what one has to pay and can pay. In another life I left Houston Tx for Colorado and paid half again as much for a lesser house in Colorado. Why?  You guessed it!

Again, YMMV

 

 

Of course Rick, that's what we all do. We go where we perceive we get best value for our buck. Extolling the virtues of where we live is natural and normal. Telling someone else where we live is "better" than where they live is pure smugness. I can certainly understand why someone would want to trade Houston for Ft. Collins, there are a million reasons why and why not. It would be like me telling you PV is better than Ft. Collins or vice versa. What floats your boat doesn't necessarily float mine. Viva la difference.

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2 hours ago, Bisbee Gal said:

.Re: NM real estate.  We looked for real estate in NM when we retired in 2003.  Walkable places like Old Mesilla, Taos and Santa Fe were sky high.  Downtown Albuquerque was just starting to get gentrified and we didn't want a project house.   We liked Silver City a lot and it was affordable, but was way too cold in winter.  

 

Ditto here. When we thought that there might be “one place” for us to move other than Lakeside after 40+ years of shoveling snow we looked around in NM. Silver City was a possibility but as you say it would still be too cold much of the winter. Also looked at Bisbee but thought it too isolated.  Why did you leave.... assuming that your forum handle might mean that you lived there?

 

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Some of you need this... :-)

 

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56 minutes ago, RickS said:

Ditto here. When we thought that there might be “one place” for us to move other than Lakeside after 40+ years of shoveling snow we looked around in NM. Silver City was a possibility but as you say it would still be too cold much of the winter. Also looked at Bisbee but thought it too isolated.  Why did you leave.... assuming that your forum handle might mean that you lived there?

 

Lived in Bisbee 5 years full-time and 5 years part time.  It's a fun, party town, great original historic center, lots of weekend events that attract big city folk from Tucson and PHX.  Isolated, yes...90+ minutes to TUS airport....up to 2 hours to Trader Joes, Costco, etc.  The hills and stairs which attracted us weren't likely to work for us as we aged (we once rented a house that had 129 steps up to it!).  Old Bisbee is small (pop. under 2K) and feels a bit claustrophobic after a few years...maybe 3 or 4 good restaurants at any given time.  After we bought in Ajijic in 2008, we found Bisbee winters too cold.  We still have many friends there and I highly recommend it for younger-than-me retirees. 

In 2012 we sold both our Bisbee house and Ajijic house to move closer to my FIL whose health was failing; we managed his care until he died.  Now we are back in Ajijic and so far are keeping the FL house.

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When you're used to mild weather such as exists in most of coastal CA, it would not make sense to subject your aging body to extremes of heat and cold in retirement.  It's bad enough to have your body "going south!"  We also knew we wanted to live in a town rather than out in the country, and we wanted a one story house for all the essential functions of life.  That's why I replied to Rick S's post (insisting that there are lots of places in the U.S. where the COL is comparable (or even less than) to living in the Lake Chapala area) by pointing out that I was talking about places you would WANT to live. That eliminates most of the U.S. because of the weather extremes.  The desirable places tend to bring bigger prices.

On another matter:  If you want a good chuckle, google "the gangs of San Miguel" 

https://grantourismotravels.com/2010/09/22/the-gangs-of-san-miguel-de-allende/

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1 hour ago, gringal said:

.....”by pointing out that I was talking about places you would WANT to live. That eliminates most of the U.S. because of the weather extremes. “

And therein lies the rub. There are millions of us NOB. MOST are not used to ‘coastal So California’ weather. Most of us are used to snow or ice and cold for a good part of the year. And many of us want to remove ourselves from that by going to the only places where it is not snowy and cold. Many of them WANT to live warmer and sunnier but they are not about to live in Mexico so they pick ‘somewhere south or SW’. 

And my contention is that there are people who want to live somewhere warmer in retirement and that they can do so several places NOB at a similar COL to Ajijic....OR LESS. And be happy. I know this because I’ve looked.... and found. Still like Lakeside’s climate more but that is just not available NOB... at least not at a similar COL.

OK, I’ve said too much on the subject already so hasta la vista. 

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