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Lakeside increased population?

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3 hours ago, pappysmarket said:

He He, yeah that part did crack me up a bit also. On the other hand, what would a 3 bedroom, 4 1/2 bath rental go for these days in Ajijic?  I've been away too long to even hazard a guess.

My 3/3 on long term is $875. With carport, garden, solar, water softener, purification, thevlust goes on. 

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1 hour ago, Ferret said:

I'm happy wherever I am but ain't no place that's perfect nor will there ever be. I've lived in San Miguel de Allende for nine years... San Pancho, Nayarit for six years and now here since May of 2011. I've lived on the west side of Ajijic and now on the east side of it... as in east of the Libramiento. I like very much where I am now located and have no intention of leaving... unless it's feet first. As I write this, it's 0 Celsius in Toronto and cloudy. Anybody who wants to whine about the traffic here has never been stuck in traffic four lanes wide on the Don Valley Parkway... and that happens daily. The sun is shining, my door is wide open and I'm content. Smile!

Since it's inception, it's been called the Don Valley Parking Lot for good reason.

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I have been following this thread for awhile now and admit that life at Lake Chapala is far from perfect.  But what place isn't, really?  One must come to terms with the reality that Mexico is still a developing country and at this time in its history it cannot be compared to the level of modernity and high standards that is enjoyed in parts of Canada, US, and Europe, not yet anyways.  I see Mexico progressing in many ways, poco a poquito, but I prefer to focus on the positives.  Many of the complainers, I have noticed, tend to live in the environs of in and around Ajijic.  Us that live in Chapala, I've found, tend to be more complacent and accepting of the changes.  I realize that mobility can be an issue for many people, but if you are still able to walk, the double parked cars on Madero Ave or on the malecon are rarely an issue for us.  In Chapala we can walk everywhere and on mostly flat, mostly smooth, and wide-ish sidewalks.  We rarely drive to Ajijic, just perhaps once a week to stock up at Walmart.  But most of the basic needs can be met at our many aborrotes grocery stores and markets.  Kevin mentioned the smell of raw sewage and the roads being torn up and resurfaced.  That is only temporary, Chapala is resurfacing many of its central streets and placing in new piping and wiring.  Placing in nice smooth, wheel chair friendly cross walks.  I see that as a temporary inconveniance but in the long run, Chapala is making many neccesary improvements to our local infrastructure, which is a wonderful thing.  In Chapala, some money is being wasted on bad ideas (like the bridge to the Fisherman Statue) and some things have been poorly built like Cristiana ave in front of the park.  But as a whole, I think Chapala is really starting to shine, and we count each day here as a true blessing.  And to top it off, the lake is now fuller, cleaner, and looking better than ever! And another nice thing about Chapala that I really like is that they are starting to add more parisian style outdoor seating on the avenues at the many restaurants.  Several near the San Francisco Church and also on Ramon Corona facing the malecon.  Things here are starting to look really nice here in my opinion.

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The complainers are primarily from Ajijic???  After 7 pages of posts, I didn't feel like doing a head count, but hey.......maybe the Ajijic residents have more to complain about?  Looks like Chapala has been getting the biggest chunk of improvement money.  In fact, the previous poster gave us the list.  Nothing like that is happening in Ajijic.  No 'fisherman' island either.:010:

Right now, it looks like nobody is going to get anything real soon, re the first page piece in the Guad reporter telling us that the city hall bank accounts are frozen.  Wonder how that will play out?

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I agree, this area is far from perfect or paradise.  The carretera is in a horrendous shape and the highway to Guadalajara is worse.  Jalisco is notorious for having the worst roads in Mexico.  Trash collection is not so great.  We need those compacting new trash trucks Sonia was talking about.  Mexico is a large country with many amazing cities and towns.  Many are far cleaner and nicer than this area.  This area has a heavy concentration of expats for some reason or another.  But I don't see this area as being so terrible as some on this board has suggested.  Has it changed over 20 years, yes!  What area hasn't?  The sky isn't falling here.  Things will work themselves out.  This area will continue being one of the best expat havens in the world.  Life here is still great and getting better for many people here!

  

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I don’t see anyone complaining just commenting and considering a different lifestyle out of the gringo bubble.   That’s not bad it’s adventurous - the very reason many left their native homes.  To each his own and opinion too!

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22 minutes ago, El Cartero said:

I don’t see anyone complaining just commenting and considering a different lifestyle out of the gringo bubble.   That’s not bad it’s adventurous - the very reason many left their native homes.  To each his own and opinion too!

Some of them are planning to check out other gringo bubbles, hoping for better conditions. Maybe they'll get lucky.  Maybe we'll get lucky and somebody will do something to fix our problems.

 

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Honestly,  Lake Chapala is not for everybody.  There are many more beautiful and nicer areas.  Mexico is huge and full of gorgeous areas.  The only difference is here we have a vibrant expat community already developed and decent businesses selling gringo products and comfort items. With a large English speaking community and all that that entails.  I am mostly fluent in Spanish, I could live anywhere, if I were looking for a place to settle down in Mexico, today, after having lived in Lake Chapala, it would probably be on of these cities in this order mas o menos....Morelia, Patzcuaro, Queretaro, Orizaba-Cordoba area, or Cuernavaca.  But Mexico has so many wonderful options really.  Don't feel confined to the expat enclaves if you truly desire to experience the best Mexico has to offer!

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23 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Well first I'd like to acknowledge those of you unhappy with the last U.S. election acting on your convictions and voting with your feet.  That shows real character.  I don't agree with your take on things but I do respect your integrity in acting on your beliefs.   A lot of folks up there made noises about doing the same and went nowhere.  

As far as the local situation I've noted before there are a number of nearby examples that prove that heavy tourism does not automatically bring the kind of trash and overall maintenance problems we have in Ajijic.  It is determined by whether the local government is doing their job or not.  I've cited Mazamitla as a very heavy tourist town that does brilliantly keeping itself clean, in good repair and graffiti free. 

Typically when I go up there on even Sundays I see municipal workers out picking up or sweeping up trash and the cops out managing the very heavy traffic when needed.  I see few street dogs and have never had to dodge dog poop on sidewalks there.  Same for Tapalpa another very heavily visited town.  I just visited two more Pueblos Magicos outside of PV, both very clean and in decent repair.  So heavy tourism can be managed. 

The difference is local government and this one doesn't cut the mustard.  My Mexican friends tell me there is widespread disaffection with it and the reformers are going to push hard this election, so we do have hope in that area.  I am glad to see that even some of you from Chapala who are the primary beneficiaries of everyone's tax dollars (at least what doesn't get disappeared) are beginning to realize this government isn't necessarily so great for your town either.

In any case the days of relative serenity here are probably gone forever given we have become a weekend favorite of the very big city just to our north.  That doesn't mean however this community has to be saddled with a government that goes out of its way to bring in huge crowds, grossly over amplified events of the type that have been curbed in GDL or one that approves any and all development no matter how inappropriate or illegal and while doing all this fails at providing the most basic services.

This next election is IMO a make or break for this country, this state and this locality.  If people show up and toss out the curruptos things could really start to turn around here, in Jalisco and nationally.  Locally, 3 more years of what we've been saddled with may be the straw that breaks the camel's back so to speak.  Keep your fingers crossed, wish us all luck and encourage those who can vote for change to do so.

 

Well stated...it's the mismanagement and corruption that really significantly adds to the mess this town is in.    Hope for change...FOR THE BETTER...and hope locals vote and make it happen.  I personally know a lot of northerners who are here because of the menace in charge there...and more to come...but predict it will turn around and then there will be lots of rentals and house sales here.............    Things come in cycles...this is one now.     

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2 hours ago, poptarte_22@yahoo.com said:

Well stated...it's the mismanagement and corruption that really significantly adds to the mess this town is in.    Hope for change...FOR THE BETTER...and hope locals vote and make it happen.  I personally know a lot of northerners who are here because of the menace in charge there...and more to come...but predict it will turn around and then there will be lots of rentals and house sales here.............    Things come in cycles...this is one now.     

We all are hoping for change for the better and less congestion is certainly desirable.

However, there is one uncomfortable factor that is going to be operating re rentals and house sales and I'll call it what someone else did: Economic Refugees.  This is one of the primary reasons people have left their homes and moved to foreign countries, always.  The financial news tells us what the savings level is for different age groups, and it's not a pretty picture for people now reaching retirement age.  Thousands of baby boomers; daily.  SS won't begin to cover the COL in the U.S.A. in anyplace people want to retire.  So guess what?  They will be headed here, whether we want to face that or not.  They may say they "love the culture" and be unlikely to admit the primary reason for the move, but lets call it like it is.  A house anywhere in this area is more desirable than a trailer in summer in Quartzite, or life forever after in a camper and parking in the Walmart lots at night.

Might as well smile, say "welcome" and mean it. The upside is that they'll be bringing their talents and enthusiasm with them.  A few years here will wear down the "attitude" issues.B)

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31 minutes ago, gringal said:

......  Thousands of baby boomers; daily.  SS won't begin to cover the COL in the U.S.A. in anyplace people want to retire.  So guess what?  They will be headed here, whether we want to face that or not. 

Well, I will have to take exception to this statement once again.  In addition to Mexico I travel quite a bit in the US. I am once again in Florida for a month where 10s or 100s of thousands of folks retire. Most of them would not be caught dead.... no pun intended.... in Mexico but they swarm here because it is better, weather wise, than the frozen northland. And there is year-around golf, and fishing and..... playing shuffleboard!!! 

One can tell by looking that many of them are probably living on SS and a small stash of other funds.... driving a 2001 Mercury Monterrey.  The same kind of financial resouces that it takes to move to Mexico these days. The COL is not terrible and especially if one takes into account the myriad of housing options and almost ALL of them cheaper than one would pay Lakeside. Just in the one location where I presently am staying there are TONS of houses, many that I would personally live in especially if I had more limited funds at my disposal and was trying to escape the frozen north. I could pick up a double-wide (nicely furnished) for $25k.... or a great 3/2/2 house on a canal to the lake for $140k. For $195 I could live above my means so to speak.... just looked at a newer place today for that price that I would buy in a heartbeat if inclined to live here. And this is just 1 of more than 100 places that have the same ‘credentials’ in Florida. 

My point is that there are tons of places in the US where the ‘total’ COL is equal to or less than Lakeside. One does not have to go to Quartzsite Az. and live in an RV. Not many to my knowledge that have the climate of Lakeside but Lakeside is pretty unique even in Mexico for climate. And there is a lot for retirees to do in the place I am presently. Hot is summer.... yes!  Am I going to move here... no!  But, as I say, 100s of thousands of folks are here and more coming each day... to take the place of those who pass.... and live out their lives on their limited resources. 

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35 minutes ago, gringal said:

We all are hoping for change for the better and less congestion is certainly desirable.

However, there is one uncomfortable factor that is going to be operating re rentals and house sales and I'll call it what someone else did: Economic Refugees.  This is one of the primary reasons people have left their homes and moved to foreign countries, always.  The financial news tells us what the savings level is for different age groups, and it's not a pretty picture for people now reaching retirement age.  Thousands of baby boomers; daily.  SS won't begin to cover the COL in the U.S.A. in anyplace people want to retire.  So guess what?  They will be headed here, whether we want to face that or not.  They may say they "love the culture" and be unlikely to admit the primary reason for the move, but lets call it like it is.  A house anywhere in this area is more desirable than a trailer in summer in Quartzite, or life forever after in a camper and parking in the Walmart lots at night.

Might as well smile, say "welcome" and mean it. The upside is that they'll be bringing their talents and enthusiasm with them.  A few years here will wear down the "attitude" issues.B)

There was a time - a very long 18-24 months ago :)- when I'd have agreed with you gringal but folks fleeing the U.S. for Lakeside for purely economic reasons are in for a rude awakening at this point. 

Rents in any part of Lakeside that are realistic choices for a car-free existence (say roughly Villa Nova to San Antonio and then Chapala centro) for places that a newbie expat would be looking for (i.e. not for a supply-your-own-everything-including-all-applicances) peso-priced fixer-upper in Las Redes are higher than any number of sunny, affordable retirement locales in the U.S. we have lived, including Tucson, Las Cruces, small-town Colorado and several other places. No question that food if you know how to shop the fruiterias and mercados is fresher and cheaper by far than anything in the U.S. but there are plenty of other costs that offset that savings, not the least of which is having absolutely no medical safety net (Medicare/Medicaid). How often have we seen people move down here with not just Social Security only for income but no assets, only to have something dire befall them resulting in pleas for donations? 

Our experience as budget retirees living on well under $2000 a month total is that there are plenty of good places in the U.S. where one can live on that amount - especially if one chooses a small-ist rental or mobile home in a place where Costco and Trader Joe's are to be found. Meanwhile I think anyone contemplating moving down here and living on Social Security alone had better have a Plan B for medical care back home or at least 100K per person in liquid assets to self-insure. 

There are of course plenty of places in Mexico where a frugal expat could live very well on far less than these amounts but none of them have been written up in International Living magazine or have English-language Facebook groups and rental web sites. 

And I should add...as a personal case-in-point...we ourselves are returning to one of those aforementioned smaller cities because we are now priced out of Lakeside and the quality of life here due to costs, congestion, pollution and traffic have seriously impacted the things we love about the area. We'll be renting a lovely 2 bedroom casita in a university town of 105,000 for $200 a month less than we are paying for an apartment in Chapala centro. Still love Lakeside but anyone contemplating moving here on a budget ought to think twice. 
 

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My point is primarily about people who are retiring in this huge demographic called "baby boomers". It is a unique one.  The previous generation was small.

Florida?  I also said any place in the U.S. where one would WANT to retire.  :rolleyes: I visited Florida once.  There is a reason the COL is lower.  No place I can think of in the U.S. that can equal or beat the climate here; much easier on old bodies.

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2 minutes ago, Kevin K said:

...not the least of which is having absolutely no medical safety net...
I think anyone contemplating moving down here and living on Social Security alone had better have a Plan B for medical care back home or at least 100K per person in liquid assets to self-insure.

 

Ever heard of Seguro Popular? It's free to visa holders too.

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1 minute ago, gringal said:

My point is primarily about people who are retiring in this huge demographic called "baby boomers". It is a unique one.  The previous generation was small.

Florida?  I also said any place in the U.S. where one would WANT to retire.  :rolleyes: I visited Florida once.  There is a reason the COL is lower.  No place I can think of in the U.S. that can equal or beat the climate here; much easier on old bodies.

Yes, I know... not for me either. But, as I said, 100s of thousands are here and more coming.  So someone WANTS to move here, or it is what they can afford but they can’t afford Lakeside these days (nor will they move to Mexico on a dare!). AND, there are other places in the US (Kevin mentioned three that I am familiar with too) that are not as hot and humid as Florida. It was just an example of the fact that there are many places in the US that one can live as cheaply as Lakeside. And, agreed that the climate cannot be better there. San Diego environs is about the only place I know but COL there is.... well.... California-like!

 

 

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1 hour ago, AngusMactavish said:

Ever heard of Seguro Popular? It's free to visa holders too.

You took the words right out of my mouth.  Not necessarily free, but mighty economical.  There are a number of expats who feel the only good medical care is in the U.S. and there is no point in arguing with people about that.

Add to that:  my monthly costs under Medicare were greater than my out of pocket costs here.

I note that Kevin neglected say which state the college town is in. That's important. I'd rather have a Trader Joe's and Costo handy, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

Since I spent my life in coastal CA, it's too late in life to adjust to places that are very hot, humid or where it SNOWS.  That's the deal breaker for me.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tiny said:

I am not sure if it is free.  

http://www.seguropopular.org/

(The site is in Spanish.)

It is free for poor people.  Then, depending on what your living conditions are,  (i.e. rent or own, dirt floor or not), fees are added, but it's still much lower than IMSS, and accepts those with pre-existing conditions.  Nothing fancy, but much better than no care.

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I was commenting about the comment "It's free to visa holders too".  To me , that make it sound like if you have a visa, it is automatically free. 

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1 hour ago, AngusMactavish said:

Ever heard of Seguro Popular? It's free to visa holders too.

Not only have I heard of it, I have it and...unless you have fluent Spanish, a partner  (or bilingual nurse on retainer), a strong relationship with a bilingual doctor who knows the strengths and weaknesses of both the IMS and SP hospital system and the private hospitals in Guad then all you have in enrolling in SP is a wish-and-a-prayer. I'm glad it's there but between the triage and the facilities...well, let's just remember that SP is what it is intended to be: a very thin safety net for Mexico's poorest. Equating it in some way with even the most basic U.S. coverage is foolish. 

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I am hardly poor, but the lady at the clinic where I subscribed did not ask me how I live, where I live, how much money I get as income, or how much I have in the bank. It is safe to assume that since I do not or did not pay any money that it is free. All she saw was my ordinary papers and visa.

PS, you have to apply.

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Well.... I live in a furnished very nice 2 bedroom apartment for 3500 pesos a month (plaza de Toros, Chapala).  ....  with lake and mountain view !  It is not noisier than anywhere else, it is safer than downtown Chapala (where I lived over 10 years), but lots of streetdogs (they dont bother me) ....  In the 9 months that I have lived here, I havent heard of one burglary !

To the point : rentals are harder to find and prices have gone up, but..... with patience, and a little more effort, like talking to people (more often than not, there are NO for rent signs), you can still find unfurnished apartments for about 2000 pesos (here, at plaza de Toros and between Soriana and la clinica municipal)..... yes, a little over 200 US dollars, and they are not all dumps.

But, get out of your comfort zone, get of the beaten track and dont expect to have it easily served on a golden tray.  

A couple of weeks ago (high season ! ), we hired a taxi, for 2 hours, went all over this town, asking around, and we found several rentals (for an American lady).

Bus system for heading centro is not great, but I get a lot faster into Guadalajara.

And Miss Virginia is happy here too, and that is all that matters, is it not.

About too many people moving here, dont worry..... listen to our governor Aristoteles latest statement about Jalisco,....  more people might be heading back soon.  But that is a seperate subject and I am not getting into that.  

And after having lost several friends, over 20 years here (where they could have been saved),.... healthcare is my biggest worry too.  It is where I absolutely dont share the huray healthcare crowd.  

Rony

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I love it.   HAHAHAHA  They take a few day trips and they think that they experience the Mexican culture.  HAHAHAHA

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35 minutes ago, Rony said:

Well.... I live in a furnished very nice 2 bedroom apartment for 3500 pesos a month (plaza de Toros, Chapala).  ....  with lake and mountain view !  It is not noisier than anywhere else, it is safer than downtown Chapala (where I lived over 10 years), but lots of streetdogs (they dont bother me) ....  In the 9 months that I have lived here, I havent heard of one burglary !

To the point : rentals are harder to find and prices have gone up, but..... with patience, and a little more effort, like talking to people (more often than not, there are NO for rent signs), you can still find unfurnished apartments for about 2000 pesos (here, at plaza de Toros and between Soriana and la clinica municipal)..... yes, a little over 200 US dollars, and they are not all dumps.

But, get out of your comfort zone, get of the beaten track and dont expect to have it easily served on a golden tray.  

A couple of weeks ago (high season ! ), we hired a taxi, for 2 hours, went all over this town, asking around, and we found several rentals (for an American lady).

Bus system for heading centro is not great, but I get a lot faster into Guadalajara.

And Miss Virginia is happy here too, and that is all that matters, is it not.

About too many people moving here, dont worry..... listen to our governor Aristoteles latest statement about Jalisco,....  more people might be heading back soon.  But that is a seperate subject and I am not getting into that.  

And after having lost several friends, over 20 years here (where they could have been saved),.... healthcare is my biggest worry too.  It is where I absolutely dont share the huray healthcare crowd.  

Rony

I also have Seguro Popular but have never used it: it's for a long term medical disaster situation which I couldn't pay out of pocket.  I've saved so much from dropping Medicare Part B that I can easily afford normal medical care (including two hospital events) and I've been very happy with the medical care here.  SP is a good thing for those who can't afford private care: better than what's proposed for them in some other places on the continent.

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5 hours ago, AngusMactavish said:

Ever heard of Seguro Popular? It's free to visa holders too.

Not quite, one must have temporal or permanente for SG. Tourist visa holders don`t qualify.

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